-
Now I would like to start the second session,
the afternoon session.
-
We have two sessions in the afternoon.
-
Firstly, we have the second session
-
with the theme of
"Ownership and Public Participation".
-
Now we would like to have a keynote
for 20 minutes by Mr. Stefan Gsänger
-
who is the Secretary General of
the World Wind Energy Association.
-
After that, we are going to have
a panel discussion
-
with panelists like the previous session.
-
Now, I would like to introduce Stefan briefly.
-
Stefan is the Secretary General of the World Wind Energy Association
-
and has been playing the leader role of the development
-
of wind power penetration in the world.
-
World Wind Energy Association holds
the wind power conference every year
-
and there is an important session
or a working group
-
which is to increase the renewable energy
-
democratically in the region from now on
-
sharing experiences and achievements
-
of the communities around the world
-
with the theme of "Community Power".
-
He has been committing this group
where they have discussed
-
how to achieve it and what
concept we should have.
-
Please welcome the speaker,
Mr. Stephan Gsänger.
-
Now we are going to start the panel discussion.
-
So we would like to have the panelists on stage.
-
We enter the panel discussion
of the second session.
-
I am the moderator, Noriaki Yamashita,
Senior Research Fellow
-
of Institute for Sustainable
Energy Policies.
-
I am also enrolled doctoral program at
the Free University of Berlin in Berlin
-
although I live in Japan.
-
So Stefan and I might speak in German
-
but I will do my best
so that it might not happen.
-
The theme of the second session is
"Ownership and Public Participation".
-
We have asked him to speak as a keynote
-
concerning the community power movement
as seen from wind power.
-
And I want to have a discussion focused
on "Ownership and Public Participation"
-
with the people who have involved
various projects
-
in various positions and in various
areas not limited to wind power.
-
I think we have audience of about 85
at this conference today.
-
We are broadcasting this conference
on Ustream.
-
If you have anyone who wants to look
at today's conference later,
-
please inform him or her
to check the home page of
-
ISEP (Institute for
Sustainable Energy Policies).
-
The video of this conference
will be archived
-
as well as the past Ustream casts.
-
I want to go into the discussion
in the second session.
-
I think I want each panelist
to do self-introduction
-
concerning what he or she involves
in each region first.
-
We have panelists from
various regions in Japan.
-
Mr. Hara of the Ohisama Shimpo Energy
is from Nagano Prefecture,
-
and Professor Maruyama
who came from Nagoya today
-
involved in the project
in Aomori Prefecture.
-
We also have a Mayor, Mr. Hosaka
of Setagaya-ku in Tokyo.
-
And we have Mis Tamiya
from Akita Prefecture
-
who is a planner and has launched
a group called Kasane-Tsumugu.
-
I think we would like to have panelists
to introduce themselves
-
and what they have been doing.
And after that
-
we want to discuss from the viewpoint
of "Ownership and Public Participation".
-
First, we would like to have Mr. Hara.
-
Hello everyone.
Thank you for the introduction.
-
My name is Hara of
Ohisama Shimpo Energy.
-
I am from Iida City
in Nagano Prefecture,
-
in the south of the Shinshu.
-
The living area of Iida City is populated
by more than 105,000 people
-
and located around 500 meters above sea level.
-
This is an area of approximately
170,000 people
-
and of 1920 square kilometers
-
including neighboring towns and villages
-
so we have 170,000 people approximately
-
in the same area as Osaka Prefecture
or Kagawa Prefecture.
-
In fiscal 2004, in effect we might have
entered the fiscal year 2005,
-
we started the business in
the mechanism called citizen investment
-
raising funds and investing it to
projects to reduce CO2 emissions
-
and reduce to the investors
the profit produced from the projects.
-
We have used the mechanism of
the citizen windmill and citizen investment
-
which were launched
by Mr. Suzuki in Hokkaido
-
who has paneled in the previous
session in the morning
-
and we have raised five funds so far
by using these knowledge.
-
It has been 840 million yen approximately.
-
We have projects mainly of solar power
-
including energy conservation
and biomass so far
-
and we have installed solar power
-
of close to 1,440 kW at 210 sites
excluding ones under construction now.
-
The projects have been distributed
in various areas to reduce CO2 emissions
-
and to distribute the profit to
the people who have invested.
-
We have been promoting citizen investors
to come on the places
-
rather than simply investing
-
so that the business is working together
with local stakeholders and citizens
-
and we are doing business such that
local government is involved properly.
-
Thank you.
Next, Professor Maruyama, please.
-
My name is Maruyama.
Thank you for inviting me today.
-
As profession I have been involved
in research and teaching of sociology
-
in the Graduate School
of Nagoya University.
-
My theme of research is
how to have renewable energy
-
rooted better in the community.
-
Beside the research as profession
I aim to increase
-
the best practices of it
properly in Japan.
-
For me, this is as important
as the research as profession.
-
Not primarily because of this,
I am the board chairman of an NPO
-
which have built a so-called citizen windmill
in Aomori Prefecture.
-
I think I am a director of
power producer formally
-
So I am a sole social scientist in the world, I guess,
-
who is at the same time a director
of power producer.
-
I just mentioned the best practices
and good practices, im my opinion,
-
have to satisfy a lot of and
a wider variety of people.
-
Actually wind power is not
a terribly profitable business.
-
Of course it is possible
to earn a stable course.
-
But it is not yet incredibly lucrative.
-
So we focus on how to
produce value-added
-
besides a direct economic effect.
-
In our case of wind power in Aomori,
-
roughly half of the investment is local
public investment in terms of prefecture-level.
-
The remaining 50% is from large cities
such as Tokyo or Osaka.
-
In that sense it is half and half and
makes connections well among people.
-
Not only to return simply
the money of investment,
-
we have activities focused on
an effort to create a ripple effect
-
triggered by the windmill such as
the sale of agricultural products
-
of the region where windmill is located.
-
Thank you very much.
Next, Mayor Hosaka please.
-
I would like to explain it
using some of the powerpoint.
-
I am Nobuto Hosaka,
Mayor of Setagaya-ku.
-
Could you show the fifth page.
-
I became the mayor in April (2011)
-
after the accident of Fukushima
Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
-
of Tokyo Electric Power Company
-
when power saving has been
said to be crucial.
-
Can you see it?
It is something strange a little.
-
Sorry, I will fix it.
Yes, I continue disregarding it.
-
It has been said that
the power saving is crucial
-
and power outage might
happen at any time.
-
We wanted to know the actual usage
at a moment in Setagaya-ku
-
and the amount of electricity
TEOCO was able to supply.
-
I just tried to show people
so-called electricity forecast
-
which TEPCO is still doing
-
and can be seen on a computer screen
or on a smartphone .
-
We asked TEPCO to inform us
how much electricity
-
we were actually using in Setagaya-ku
in the electricity forecast.
-
We did various interactions
and they finally decided to give us
-
the total data of 23 wards of Tokyo and
-
we put it up to the home page
of Setagaya-ku.
-
This means that, oh, this is it.
-
Would you show the next page?
-
This is the data sent from TEPCO
to Setagaya-ku.
-
This is August 31 last year
at the height of summer.
-
It was pretty hot though.
This is the peak of 13.36 million kW
-
and the reduction target is the green line
and the blue line here is the actual usage.
-
It was clealy found in July already
that there was much room
-
even with the data of a fairly
wider district of 23 wards.
-
Known these above,
Setagaya-ku began considering
-
the introduction of PPS.
And page 9, please.
-
I made proposals to Mr. Edano,
the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry.
-
We decided to change
the electricity company to PPS fromTEPCO
-
and the sum of the electricity
was 670 million yen.
-
There were reactions from the residents
-
saying they wanted to do the same thing at home
and wondered how they could do it.
-
I proposed to Ministar Edano that there must be
the reform of the so-called system
-
that generated electricity is distributed to homes
-
through the transmission line.
-
I also proposed him to expand
retail market liberalization
-
on which debate must continue
at this very moment
-
and to assist the affected areas
by means of renewable energy.
-
Setagaya-ku has interchange with Minami-Sanriku Town
and Minami-Soma City, for example,
-
and was determined to seek such institutional reform.
These are activities so far.
-
Something like that at the moment.
-
Thank you, Mayor Hosaka.
-
As the last panelist, we would like Mis Tamiya
to introduce herself
-
and to tell us about activities these days.
-
My name is Mayumi Tamiya and
I came from Akita Prefecture.
-
Thank you for inviting me.
-
First, I would like to introduce the situation
regarding renewable energy in Akita Prefecture.
-
When I tried to arrange all prefectures in the country
-
in abundance or potential of renewable energy,
-
I found potential of renewable energy of Akita Prefecture
-
is so big that it was the second place excluding Hokkaido.
-
Firstly it includes wind because very strong wind blows
-
in the coast of Akita Prefecture, and geothermal.
-
It also contains biomass of abundant forest resources
-
and the other biomass such as rice straw
and rice husk because
-
agriculture is also very popular
in Akita Prefecture.
-
Although winter is long actually,
the sun shines strongly in summer.
-
So solar PV has a very big potential. It is said at the prefectural level
-
that they consider to send electricity generated by renewables
-
directly to Tokyo in inter-regional cooperation.
-
I will talk about the situation of the region's population.
-
As I've looked at look at the numbers at hand,
-
the population of Akita Prefecture was 1.1 million in 2008.
-
Almost 10,000 people are declining every year.
-
Increasing decline of population has continued,
-
such as one municipality disappears every year.
-
Rapid decline of population
and aging are progressing.
-
Of course, There are some people who are very worried
-
about the survival of the village.
-
I returned to Akita two years ago after working in Tokyo
-
in the environment-related sector.
-
One of the big reason that young people
are not able to return is the fact that
-
there aren't sufficient jobs for young people
even if they want to do so.
-
Now I would like to talk about
my energy-related business activities.
-
In order to connect the regional industries
with consumers,
-
we are trying to make proposals
with original products of new design
-
using regional resources
such as food or forestry resources
-
in cooperation with designers and creators.
-
The sake industry in Tohoku area as a whole
-
was severely impacted
after the earthquake of March 11 last year.
-
There were a lot of 'kuramoto', sake breweries,
-
which were threatened to be out of business
-
under the influence of the accident of Fukushima nuclear plant.
-
In these circumstances, there was an idea
-
among the people especially among kuramoto
in Akita Prefecture
-
to organize an event to talk about sake
-
and to hear from kuramoto.
-
Some kuramoto wanted to talk
abount energy as well as sake.
-
I was happy to coordinate
to ask Mr. Tetsunari Iida of the ISEP
-
to appear at the talk event.
-
I don't think many people are quite interested
both in sake and in such things
-
like survival of sake and renewable energy.
-
By combining them together,
we managed to create a place
-
where sake lovers could think about
renewable energy and also
-
where people interested in renewable energy
could drink sake for the first time.
-
I might have contributed to it a bit.
-
In this kind of relationships
we started the seminar last month
-
mainly in Akita City in Akita Prefecture to learn
-
how to expand the regional ownership
of renewable energy.
-
It has just begun. It really has.
This is the situation right now.
-
Thank you, everybody.
-
I would like to have some comments
from Mr. Gsänger
-
concerning the four stories up to now.
-
He mentioned earlier that there were
also various types of citizen windmills.
-
Could you comment on this as well?
-
I want to go further into discussion.
-
It was mentioned in the first session today
that it was a matter of people.
-
The theme of the first session was
"Vision and Realization".
-
In order to think something and to achieve it, we have to think
-
who and how to do it and how to involve people.
-
The theme of this session is
"Ownership and Public Participation".
-
I think however that there is
considerable overlap between the two.
-
It is still quite worthwhile to hear
about each and every case.
-
So I want to do so
even if we have to repeat.
-
I would like to present these three
as the themes of today.
-
Firstly, difficulty and significance
of public participation
-
which has been discussed
much in the first session.
-
It is prone to talk a beautiful story
when we mention public participation however,
-
we want to share their experience in
various processes until it will be achieved.
-
Secondly, the importance of
human resources and networks
-
which were also discussed
in the first session.
-
Can you show the power point?
-
I talk with a lot of people at various
meetings in different places like this.
-
In every successful case there was
always the person at the very front,
-
like the one who is standing in front
of all the rest in this figure
-
who is dedicating 100% of time and
passion of life of his or her own.
-
But there must be the ones
-
who have been helping him or her
from behind
-
such as bankers, for example,
who are not in front.
-
People of municipality does not come in front either
-
and does not do with 100%
but support from behind.
-
Then there are others further behind
who help him or her with 10%,
-
like the ones who have
different professions
-
or the domestic workers
-
who help him or her in their spare time.
-
And much further behind, come also the ones
-
who are using 1% of
their own time and money.
-
I think the connection like this
is also very important.
-
Hopefully I want to hear about
not only the ones in front
-
but also the human resources
behind the scene,
-
like such a person was
unexpectedly helpful.
-
Thirdly, it can not be done
only by the strength of will.
-
It can be probably done with
the strength of will in most cases
-
to a certain extent,
but not in some cases.
-
Then we need mechanisms to help people
who are willing to make it done.
-
So what can be done by the government
or how can the government help?
-
We want to hear on these three points.
-
Please turn off the powerpoint.
-
Firstly, the significance and
the difficulty of public participation.
-
There are different perceptions
towards public participation.
-
So tell us your thought
about public participation
-
followed by the significance
and the difficulty.
-
I want to hear about raw experience
as much as possible
-
and it is much appreciated if it is
a lively and compelling story.
-
I think you inform us about it briefly
in about a couple of minutes.
-
A difficult question, though,
but as mentioned earlier,
-
a hundred people think in a hundred
different way, I think.
-
This is absolutely so.
-
Even though we share the same goal
to spread the renewable energy,
-
I think each and every person
surely thinks differently.
-
I think renewable energy is also
an important regional public goods.
-
Tons of people in the region,
local citizens,
-
are not only aware of it.
It is really not.
-
If I happen to be the one in front,
-
what I think I have to do by doing this
-
is to have them know it and notice
-
that it is to exploit the important
resources of their own.
-
I think I have to do that but
they are not quite aware of it.
-
That's what I have found difficult.
-
Professor Maruyama, please.
-
Speaking of the difficulties
of public participation,
-
it is terribly time-consuming.
-
In order to form a consensus,
or before that,
-
what people are thinking
for example basically?
-
it is a time-consuming process
to know it itself.
-
So that is a terribly difficult point.
-
And of course people are
not always favorable to us
-
and there are difficulties
in that sense.
-
Difficulty and significance
are two sides of coin.
-
We can not to tell what people think important
without asking them directly.
-
In my previous case, our aim
is to help the promotion
-
of the area with a windmill.
-
We may not know what they really want
-
without listening to them
over a decent time and effort.
-
Finally I found that they are
happy with windmills
-
only if it does help their agriculture
-
even though windmills
mean nothing to them.
-
I would not have known that
without doing it.
-
According to the network
mentioned earlier,
-
the part of 50%, in other words,
-
the mechanisms that support
operations such as
-
the finance, the maintenance
or the development,
-
I think they are very important.
Those who are supposed
-
to support the business
are often doing it by themselves actually.
-
Rather than helping the person in front
-
who are trying to promote
the region from behind,
-
they themselves are doing the business.
-
The fact that such projects
are increasing,
-
it is quite a difficult problem.
-
We will talk it later.
Thank you.
-
According to Mr. Takemoto
from Bizen City
-
who paneled in the first session,
-
there were people who listen to him
by no means.
-
In that case, all he did was
just to listen to anything they say.
-
You would find the path
to follow by doing so, he said.
-
I think that what
Professor Maruyama said
-
was meant to be exactly the same thing.
-
Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.
-
Setagaya-ku has a population
of 880,000 people,
-
but I think it now probably
exceeds 90 million.
-
It is very populous, though.
-
This is a large power consumption area.
-
Its residents' awareness
of the electricity is very high.
-
We decided to buy electricity from PPS
-
slightly cheaper than from
Tokyo Electric Power Company.
-
There are also a considerable number
of such people in this area
-
who want to buy renewable
energy power in their houses
-
or in apartments as a whole
where he or she lives
-
or wanted to buy in the joint
purchase if possible.
-
The strength we think we have
as a municipality is trust.
-
I'm willing to open a window
of opportunities
-
taking advantage of this trust.
-
We have launched a regional forum
-
that promotes the use
of renewable energy.
-
This is a framework which includes
all financial institutions,
-
all universities, which present
in the wards,
-
agricultural cooperative which
we actually have in Setagaya-ku
-
and various co-ops as well.
-
On one hand, there are people
-
who want to do the business
of renewable energy
-
which might be mainly solar PV panels
and solar thermal panels in Setagaya-ku
-
or might be in the form
of bulk purchase to spread it.
-
On the other hand, we would like to
support and cheer up the disaster areas
-
such as Akita Prefecture or
Nagano Prefecture, for example,
-
who are trying to launch
renewable energy power business
-
as employment measures as well,
-
by purchasing their
electricity selectively.
-
I think these two are our
mainstream at the moment.
-
The local government should rather
provide the precise information
-
than become a business principal.
-
I think information is very important
at this moment
-
because it's not obvious yet actual and
-
particularly detailed condition
of feed-in tariffs.
-
We think from the government's
perspective that we will support
-
the spread of renewable energy
as a whole
-
while holding forums or
symposiums frequently
-
which citizens can access freely.
-
Thank you.
-
I think only the cases of small
municipalities are often discussed
-
at a symposium like this
to promote renewable energy.
-
I believe that you have been
really motivated to hear Søren
-
in the first session.
-
I think you might not be able
to find what to do
-
when you come home in Tokyo.
-
I think that was often
the case up to now.
-
I think a lot of things are
visible recently what you can do
-
even you live in urban areas
as Mayor Hosaka mentioned.
-
He said they propose those things
playing a modest role
-
behind the scene in a decent manner
-
rather than playing the lead, I think.
Thank you.
-
Then, Ms Tamiya, please.
-
We will talk a very fresh story.
-
We began learning the concept
of "Community Power" in Akita
-
receiving lectures by people from ISEP.
-
We learned that benefit of projects of
renewable energy would rather go
-
to companies of large capital
-
headquartered in Tokyo or overseas
than fall in the local communities
-
without this concept of community power
even if there is potential much.
-
We noticed that large companies
withdraw if economy worsens
-
and we loose employment
even we have attracted them.
-
We began noticing that
the same thing would happen
-
without implementing the concept of
"Community Power"
-
and that we need local ownership.
-
This kind of discussion begins
to come out especially on wind power
-
but the leaders of the discussion
are often much larger senior
-
perhaps because the whole
communit is aging.
-
Assuming that the average age
of the team are the age of 60's now,
-
I consider that the main leaders
would be in their 70's
-
when the business starts successfully
in something like ten years time.
-
I have a sense of crisis that
the 30's would have to work
-
when I imagine the year 2050.
-
A lot of people have been increasingly
coming back strangely in sync
-
whom I can share
this sense of crisis with.
-
They don't know much
about renewable energy first
-
but I find their motivation is high
-
when we have the study session
or town planning.
-
I do not know what can be
done right now
-
but I am trying to involve people
younger than me as many as possible
-
while learning and sharing
information with them.
-
I have a big concern
that the form of community power
-
would be completely different
and that it would be determined
-
by the direction in which
the leaders choose.
-
I am very grateful to receive
this opportunity like this,
-
but the best and newest models
in the world
-
would not perhaps work and
even could not to be imitated as they are.
-
So there must be a lot of discussions
and twists and turns,
-
and even conflicts, which I
really don't want to call them so.
-
I think we have to take our time
-
because there are various people
with various opinions.
-
Thank you very much.
-
I would like Stefan to introduce
good examples overseas
-
of public participation regardless
of the size of municipalities.
-
I think I want to talk about human resources
and the network as second question.
-
Those who panel here might be in front
and speak out in various places.
-
Among their supporters there might be someone
whom they found unexpectedly important
-
or whose help had been very grateful.
-
I would like them to talk about these people
without mentioning their personal names.
-
I think the business entity doing 100% and the local
government are the two important actors, of course.
-
Who comes up in addition? This might be
the key people in the administration of course.
-
I think it can be organized into two.
-
First, this might be a very local story.
-
When I tried to launch the business
with the assistance of many people, I remember,
-
there were much more people of the opposition
including the municipality than those in favor of it.
-
I was advised to quit it and was
informed that it would be impossible.
-
But there were several people of the region or among
my drinking buddy entirely unrelated to this business,
-
who kindly told me that they would support me if I did it.
-
I think these words of them boosted my feelings.
-
Secondly, it is natural that people of the business
region work hard when you start it
-
but Is there anybody who has a wealth of knowledge
of renewable energy in the city of 100,000 people?
-
Or is anyone with such knowledge of legal issues
when you try to raise the investment or civil investment?
-
I am afraid there aren't unfortunately.
-
A person with such knowledge is
or should be always, but in Japan.
-
I have got the cooperation of those people
to be allowed to use their knowledge.
-
I think that these two above were very important
-
and they might be the big factors
that I might be able to stand in front.
-
Thank you. When speaking about town revitalization,
it is often said that there must be 'Three Actors'.
-
Outsiders, Young People and a Fool.
I am afraid that Mr. Hara might be a Fool in this context.
-
He would do it despite the opposite of all, it is a Fool.
-
There must be also those who support
from outside like us, Outsiders.
-
I think that people with young heart in the region would
also satisfy the condition of young people above,
-
actually people are helping him in his office now.
-
This can be applied to renewable energy projects
as to town revitalization. I thought it to hear him.
-
Professor Maruyama, please.
-
What I am going to tell you overlaps with the previous story.
-
People who are expected to play supporting roles
of business are very important, I think,
-
and they often play the lead in Japan
rather than supporting roles.
-
I think it is one of the circumstances
that makes the situation has become so difficult.
-
It might be the case in biomass
or small hydro or wind power,
-
it is often well done up to
construction phase,
-
but not in the following phase, especiall the maintenance
and business decision making
-
as well as managing business risks
are often surprisingly neglected.
-
I think those things are important.
-
Then I will talk about network and human resources.
-
Mr. Hara has been doing business locally
where he lives in his native town.
-
I was born in Tokyo and happened to live in
Aomori City at the time I stated the project.
-
The project was in a place called Ajigasawa
while I lived in Aomori City away from the site.
-
Human resources in the regional core city
like the prefectural capital are important,
-
and those networks are being maintained well also
in Aomori Prefecture like in Akita Prefecture, I think.
-
I think it is applicable without exception to all areas
that there surely exists such people
-
who can work for the region focusing on the future
of the region rather than self-interest.
-
Probably it is important to support them
creating mechanisms
-
or in terms of practical business matters.
-
I think the roles of citizens living in the prefectural capital
or universities they are considerably important.
-
They are described as
local public human resources recently.
-
There are people who can still help
in the local community.
-
Mr. Suzuki of Hokkaido mentioned
earlier in the first session
-
that you should do it anyway,
-
but those people are surely necessary
in business perspective
-
even if there are the one who dares to do it.
-
It is desirable this can be done in the region.
-
Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.
-
I think you are going to start now,
so I would like you to comment
-
also on the type of human resources you are seeking
or on the kind of people you want to find.
-
It is not yet obvious that the Japanese society
is either changed at a first glance
-
after the nuclear accident
and the earthquake of March 11
-
but I think it is because the next thing
has not come in the clear form.
-
I feel the sign of change from the ground up.
-
because attention to the regional forum of
renewable energy I mentioned earlier is very high.
-
Since I have been active as a politician
close to NPOs or civic movements,
-
I think that the achievements of people
who have come to open up
-
in tough conditions in NPOs
or civic movements are quite large.
-
Among 880,000 residents of Setagaya-ku,
there are several kind of people.
-
In the economic community of
the district, for example,
-
those whose ancestors had actually
lived in Setagaya in the Edo era
-
are influential men representing economic
organizations or agricultural cooperatives.
-
In that sense, there are influential people
in the old region of Setagaya.
-
Interest to renewable energy is high
even among those people.
-
Compared with those mentioned above,
-
there are new business entities
such as co-op, NPOs or citizen businesses,
-
while some of them lives in Setagaya-ku
for thirty or forty years
-
even they are said to be new,
-
each of these two are doing business in different shapes
sharing the same goal or cooperating each other.
-
As human resources, those who can surely
talk to the people of different positions
-
not having someone monopolize the information
-
but providing information fairly
are very important.
-
From the viewpoint of government,
in order to provide information impartially
-
to those of citizen business or of pure business,
-
government could by no means provide
exclusive information to a certain company.
-
I think this is a huge opportunity
regarding the market size.
-
In that sense those
who can connect government
-
with the business entities
and can properly communicate
-
with people of different social position
are fairly important.
-
Perhaps one of the reasons
why Mr. Hara could have done the business until today
-
is the fact that he lives in Iida City,
-
There are a lot of people who say good things
waving the flag and do not process practical matters.
-
If there are some who could do both of them
and do not seek self-interest,
-
our society might change drastically.
-
Thank you. Mentioned in the first session
when talking how to spread renewables,
-
there are opinion leaders even among this audience.
-
There must be about five opinion leaders among
a hundred people today. Søren Hermansen said so.
-
I think that it is also important to find such people
regardless of the scale, if it is small or big.
-
And he mentioned public mind.
-
Our director, Mr. Iida writes recently observing
Mr. Hara about three requirements of the leader.
-
First comes the public mind,
not to seek self-interest,
-
next comes a certain
proper sense of business
-
and third comes the confidence
earned in the region.
-
I think these are also important, how to find it.
We talk while drinking with something in mind.
-
I think we have it spread through briefings in various forms.
Then Ms Tamiya, please.
-
You talk about what people you want
or you can recruit through Ustream.
-
I want help from outside among the three which are
trust, business sense and public mind is business sense.
-
It is a practical matter. But I guess a practical matter
-
can supplement in the business base,
so it in fact does not come first.
-
I think that I want someone who could run with us
regardless from which region he or she is.
-
We can be connected a lot through social networks
and it is desirable to spread such a circle, I think.
-
There was a figure of followers
behind their leader shown earlier.
-
One of the reasons I was invited here, I believe,
was that there were greater leaders in the region.
-
They have been continuously appealing the potential
of renewable energies since before 311.
-
There are three citizen windmills even in Akita Prefecture
and they are said to be increasing.
-
There are those who have been doing such things
by very small number of people.
-
I have been frequently consulting them or talking
with them about various dreams such as
-
building at least one 100% citizen invested windmill
even in Akita City since about two years before
-
The fact I can follow them as their followers along
with other younger people, I owe it to them much.
-
I believe such people are important.
-
I am running a seminar with a help from young
people voluntarily who say it is very interesting.
-
They are much interested in being connected
with the world with the concept of "Community Power"
-
and they find so-called frontier of knowledge.
There are people who are frustrated with daily routine work
-
and are unhappy with their daily life in Akita
and have an intention to go out if they had a chance.
-
They come and help us.
I find they are very much helpful.
-
Thank you.
-
There is a phrase "Think Globally, Act Locally".
-
On the other hand Søren says "Think Locally, Act Locally"
and I think they are all linked.
-
We have about twenty minutes remaining,
so we would like to talk about mechanisms.
-
Besides the business risks
which you have to take by yourselves,
-
there must have been, among
the business activities until now,
-
various problems or obstacles related to the rules
of administrative rules both in local and national level.
-
I think that they have the experience so far
in overcoming those above.
-
I think there must be a wall and
there are many ways to overcome
-
such as smashing from the front
or taking a detour.
-
In addition to these above, I would like to hear about
such mechanisms which make things easier
-
or about mechanisms without which things might be easier.
-
We have heard much about
the role of local governments.
-
If you have something to add,
we are happy to hear that.
-
I would like to hear from Stefan
after hearing from every panelist around.
-
First we would like to have Mr. Hara.
-
I think collaboration with the local
government is absolutely necessary.
-
In our case, for example, I think there must have been
a lot of discussions in Iida City
-
when the local government
gives us the first permission
-
to use roofs of public properties
for the purpose outside.
-
The government have permitted us the long-term
outside purpose use for twenty years
-
for the business plan of our fund.
I think this was very large.
-
Iida City did not spend any money actually
but supported the citizen business
-
by such a mechanism. That was pretty significant.
-
We want to continue working on
similar renewable energy projects,
-
we have to extract business risks
and take measures to them
-
but there are known risks which cannot be
measured in business base.
-
It is also very important for the government
-
how to make mechanisms to support
the business on such risks.
-
I would like Mayor Hosaka to comment on this.
-
Speaking of the case of Iida City,
we often mention this long-term permission
-
for twenty years which is the first case.
-
Do you have experienced
the bureaucracy so-called vertical wall?
-
We have a lot.
It will be a concrete example.
-
Seven years after installation of solar panels,
-
unexpected re-roofing became necessary
which was not originally planned.
-
We had an agreement to cope with
these things like re-roofing
-
including prior discussions. But that has often
not been shared within the municipality.
-
The department in charge of the building and
technical department such as construction department
-
arbitrarily discussed and informed us
right before removing panels.
-
The new roofing they planned made
re-installing of solar panels impossible.
-
We talk with the government of Iida City
to share such information.
-
Thank you. Next, Professor Maruyama please
-
The most important rule, I think,
the government have to follow,
-
is that it will not do its own energy business.
-
With respect to the business like this,
-
a lot of know-how on the local natural
conditions should be accumulated.
-
This is not only technically but also socially.
-
It should not do it because officials in charge
are reassigned too often.
-
Mechanisms to encourage competition to promote
socially good business widely is another point.
-
Regarding wind power, impact
on the environment, for example,
-
can be reduced as close to zero as possible
if you spend time and money infinitely.
-
On the other hand, wind power business is no longer viable
as a business if you spend time and money infinitely.
-
There exists a mechanism at the moment
-
that the business would become profitable
if you ease up environmental measures.
-
It is important to make mechanisms such that
making agreement carefully and investigating carefully
-
make the business more profitable.
-
For example in Denmark, they ranks each area
based on the data present in public.
-
The area of a certain rank where the assessment is unnecessary
-
or that of another rank where one can venture
but might be opposed.
-
A decent business entity selects
the area of less impact.
-
It is very important to implement
a mechanism to promote good business.
-
I guess it is also important to support a good energy
from the market side such that, for example,
-
Setagaya-ku won't buy even the renewable energy
from the business entity who ignore the region.
-
In a certain sense Japan has accumulated
the experiences of organic farming or thereabouts
-
and those can be applied quite a lot actually to renewable energies.
-
Thank you.
The local government rather support
-
from behind by providing information,
for example, than do their own business.
-
And we can support by selecting the good one.
-
Mayor Hosaka, please.
-
How disastrous results the local government had
brought so far by doing their own businesses,
-
I often heard it from Mr. Iida.
-
Subsidy of 100,000 yen for
installing one solar panel unit
-
was actually abolished
from this year in Setagaya-ku.
-
Some people might think that we take one
step backwards from viewpoint of budget.
-
As I said earlier, we will try not to loose trust
by always providing accurate and timely information
-
and by holding regional forums of renewable energy
to share such information and by continuing these above.
-
There will be various deployments
quite probably after this coming summer
-
such as specialty shops of solar panels
advertising loudly opened by various companies
-
who think the opportunities are coming.
-
Some people say they don't know at all
how to determine when and where to buy.
-
There are some places like a consumer information
center in Setagaya-ku.
-
But for now, they don't have such knowledge
to be able to provide fair information
-
such as what to see to know good and bad points.
-
We have to train them so that
they could point out the check point
-
or the problem on the time of purchase
from consumers' perspective.
-
From now on we should offer rather space to
ambitious people or businesses than subsidies.
-
We should also offer space to venture companies
of energy conservation even it is not of renewable energy.
-
Space is crucial for companies in the launch phase,
especially in the location like Setagaya-ku.
-
I think if they could do this as an industrial policy
and for the utilization of vacant store or vacant house.
-
There is already a certain activity called
Town Planning Trust Fund
-
and this raises funds for other
ambitious businesses or citizens.
-
I think we can consider a fund to support
such citizen businesses in this field.
-
The administratives mechanism
to cover at the time of such disaster
-
should be built-in in the stage like now.
-
It is absolutely impossible to cover only a certain field
when something disastrous has happened.
-
So we are happy to hear you from the field and
we will have to find a way in various means.
-
Thank you.
-
Speaking of information, I am also
a part-time lecturer at a university.
-
I asked to students for ideas of mechanisms
to promote renewable energy,
-
and one of the ideas was a renewable energy electricity
version of "Kakaku.com (a price comparison site)."
-
It is still important to organize information.
-
What mentioned at the end might become
the renewable-energy-related town planning.
-
It is very important because it could become
the opportunity to remove the vertical wall.
-
Lastly, Ms Tamiya, please.
-
We don't have a direct relationship much
with local governments yet.
-
I think it might be a challenge in the future
we have to accept.
-
But I think municipalities which happen to have
mayors like the mayor of Setagaya-ku
-
who can lead the people in the area
could make much progress.
-
But there are many municipalities
which don't have such leaders.
-
I want to seek good ideas from a variety of people
to approach the latter municipalities.
-
I have spoken as Mayor of Setagaya-ku while ago
but I forgot to say something.
-
I believe there must be many municipalities throughout
the country which are preparing something in this field
-
and people of ISEP are supposed to know the best
which municipalities are preparing what.
-
Basic municipalities have to work
together to exchange ideas
-
from both power producers and
consumer sides which are different.
-
I think a so-called exchange forum
could be fairly helpful.
-
I think we take it as our homework.
Thank you.
-
I would like to hear from Stefan in response to
the efforts we have heard until now.
-
There are mechanisms which support renewable
energy projects in the region, for example,
-
a condition of investments in Denmark that investors
must be from local municipalities.
-
Could you comment on such mechanisms
or a role of local governments
-
to promote local renewable energy projects if any?
-
Thank you. We have only five minutes remaining.
-
So please alIow me to cancel the questions
from the floor in this session.
-
Lastly, we have been doing this session
with the theme of "Ownership and Public Participation".
-
I would like to hear someone who have
something else to do from now on,
-
or something in terms of public participation.
Is there anyone to speak up?
-
It is a future outlook.
-
This might be a plan you want to do,
or the next business or project.
-
Is this too difficult all of a sudden?
-
Do you have anything, Mr. Hara?
-
In this fiscal year, we have expanded so-called
zero yen system a little beyond Iida City
-
and I hope we could promote this across
the region of south Shinshu.
-
Until now in case with subsidies or using
so-called zero yen systems with no subsidies,
-
it has been limited to individual housing.
-
After this coming July when feed-in tariffs begins,
-
we are going to try so-called
distributed megawatts system
-
which several sites collectively generate megawatts
in cooperation with the leading companies of the region.
-
That is the goal at the moment.
-
At the start of feed-in tariffs finally,
I think we will try a lot of things
-
to increase momentum taking advantage
of the timing at least in Setagaya-ku.
-
It includes Symposiums held by the private sector.
-
Of course, what we are talking here is quite hard
for general residents to grasp precisely.
-
The most obvious point is the fact
that the municipal office is connected
-
to the electricity company other than
Tokyo Electric Power Company.
-
This made people think whether they
might be able to do the same.
-
We are just asking the Ministry
of Economy, Trade and Industry
-
to let us do the test model case of
joint purchasing of renewable energy
-
which might be just an experimental project ahead of schedule.
-
If it becomes visible that general households elaborate
how to choose electricity
-
and eventually choose green power, it would spreads out fast.
-
We will do our best because I think
that wall is also a little thick.
-
In this session we have received feedback from a variety of
positions in a variety of information about cases.
-
On the figure shown at the beginning of the session,
there are people like Mr. Hara and Professor Maruyama
-
who dedicate a hundred percent.
-
And there are also those who support from behind
and there were a wide variety of positions,
-
of various professions in a variety of relationships.
-
It is possible not because they
are in smaller municipalities.
-
They also have difficulties to some extent
-
and have been done amazingly.
On the other hand,
-
it does not mean that there is nothing we can do
because we live in the city.
-
I think that we could have shown the fact that
we have a variety of choice using various information
-
and that we can participate in various proportion
of renewable energy projects in this regard.
-
Stefan has demonstrated the global trend,
then that "Ownership and Public Participation"
-
affect much not only the flow of money
but also that of feeling,
-
and that the community is very important
for the project of renewable energy.
-
I would like to end this session now.
I hope the applause for the participants, please.
