Now I would like to start the second session, 
the afternoon session.

We have two sessions in the afternoon.

Firstly, we have the second session

with the theme of 
"Ownership and Public Participation".

Now we would like to have a keynote 
for 20 minutes by Mr. Stefan Gsänger

who is the Secretary General of 
the World Wind Energy Association.

After that, we are going to have 
a panel discussion

with panelists like the previous session.

Now, I would like to introduce Stefan briefly.

Stefan is the Secretary General of the World Wind Energy Association

and has been playing the leader role of the development

of wind power penetration in the world.

World Wind Energy Association holds 
the wind power conference every year

and there is an important session 
or a working group

which is to increase the renewable energy

democratically in the region from now on

sharing experiences and achievements

of the communities around the world

with the theme of "Community Power".

He has been committing this group 
where they have discussed

how to achieve it and what 
concept we should have.

Please welcome the speaker, 
Mr. Stephan Gsänger.

Now we are going to start the panel discussion.

So we would like to have the panelists on stage.

We enter the panel discussion 
of the second session.

I am the moderator, Noriaki Yamashita, 
Senior Research Fellow

of Institute for Sustainable 
Energy Policies.

I am also enrolled doctoral program at 
the Free University of Berlin in Berlin

although I live in Japan.

So Stefan and I might speak in German

but I will do my best 
so that it might not happen.

The theme of the second session is 
"Ownership and Public Participation".

We have asked him to speak as a keynote

concerning the community power movement 
as seen from wind power.

And I want to have a discussion focused 
on "Ownership and Public Participation"

with the people who have involved 
various projects

in various positions and in various 
areas not limited to wind power.

I think we have audience of about 85 
at this conference today.

We are broadcasting this conference 
on Ustream.

If you have anyone who wants to look 
at today's conference later,

please inform him or her 
to check the home page of

ISEP (Institute for 
Sustainable Energy Policies).

The video of this conference 
will be archived

as well as the past Ustream casts.

I want to go into the discussion 
in the second session.

I think I want each panelist 
to do self-introduction

concerning what he or she involves 
in each region first.

We have panelists from 
various regions in Japan.

Mr. Hara of the Ohisama Shimpo Energy 
is from Nagano Prefecture,

and Professor Maruyama 
who came from Nagoya today

involved in the project 
in Aomori Prefecture.

We also have a Mayor, Mr. Hosaka 
of Setagaya-ku in Tokyo.

And we have Mis Tamiya 
from Akita Prefecture

who is a planner and has launched 
a group called Kasane-Tsumugu.

I think we would like to have panelists 
to introduce themselves

and what they have been doing. 
And after that

we want to discuss from the viewpoint 
of "Ownership and Public Participation".

First, we would like to have Mr. Hara.

Hello everyone.
Thank you for the introduction.

My name is Hara of 
Ohisama Shimpo Energy.

I am from Iida City 
in Nagano Prefecture,

in the south of the Shinshu.

The living area of Iida City is populated 
by more than 105,000 people

and located around 500 meters above sea level.

This is an area of approximately 
170,000 people

and of 1920 square kilometers

including neighboring towns and villages

so we have 170,000 people approximately

in the same area as Osaka Prefecture 
or Kagawa Prefecture.

In fiscal 2004, in effect we might have 
entered the fiscal year 2005,

we started the business in 
the mechanism called citizen investment

raising funds and investing it to 
projects to reduce CO2 emissions

and reduce to the investors 
the profit produced from the projects.

We have used the mechanism of 
the citizen windmill and citizen investment

which were launched 
by Mr. Suzuki in Hokkaido

who has paneled in the previous 
session in the morning

and we have raised five funds so far 
by using these knowledge.

It has been 840 million yen approximately.

We have projects mainly of solar power

including energy conservation 
and biomass so far

and we have installed solar power

of close to 1,440 kW at 210 sites 
excluding ones under construction now.

The projects have been distributed 
in various areas to reduce CO2 emissions

and to distribute the profit to 
the people who have invested.

We have been promoting citizen investors 
to come on the places

rather than simply investing

so that the business is working together 
with local stakeholders and citizens

and we are doing business such that 
local government is involved properly.

Thank you.
Next, Professor Maruyama, please.

My name is Maruyama.
Thank you for inviting me today.

As profession I have been involved 
in research and teaching of sociology

in the Graduate School 
of Nagoya University.

My theme of research is 
how to have renewable energy

rooted better in the community.

Beside the research as profession 
I aim to increase

the best practices of it 
properly in Japan.

For me, this is as important 
as the research as profession.

Not primarily because of this, 
I am the board chairman of an NPO

which have built a so-called citizen windmill 
in Aomori Prefecture.

I think I am a director of 
power producer formally

So I am a sole social scientist in the world, I guess,

who is at the same time a director 
of power producer.

I just mentioned the best practices 
and good practices, im my opinion,

have to satisfy a lot of and 
a wider variety of people.

Actually wind power is not 
a terribly profitable business.

Of course it is possible 
to earn a stable course.

But it is not yet incredibly lucrative.

So we focus on how to 
produce value-added

besides a direct economic effect.

In our case of wind power in Aomori,

roughly half of the investment is local 
public investment in terms of prefecture-level.

The remaining 50% is from large cities 
such as Tokyo or Osaka.

In that sense it is half and half and 
makes connections well among people.

Not only to return simply 
the money of investment,

we have activities focused on 
an effort to create a ripple effect

triggered by the windmill such as 
the sale of agricultural products

of the region where windmill is located.

Thank you very much.
Next, Mayor Hosaka please.

I would like to explain it 
using some of the powerpoint.

I am Nobuto Hosaka, 
Mayor of Setagaya-ku.

Could you show the fifth page.

I became the mayor in April (2011)

after the accident of Fukushima 
Daiichi Nuclear Power Station

of Tokyo Electric Power Company

when power saving has been 
said to be crucial.

Can you see it? 
It is something strange a little.

Sorry, I will fix it.
Yes, I continue disregarding it.

It has been said that 
the power saving is crucial

and power outage might 
happen at any time.

We wanted to know the actual usage 
at a moment in Setagaya-ku

and the amount of electricity 
TEOCO was able to supply.

I just tried to show people 
so-called electricity forecast

which TEPCO is still doing

and can be seen on a computer screen 
or on a smartphone .

We asked TEPCO to inform us 
how much electricity

we were actually using in Setagaya-ku 
in the electricity forecast.

We did various interactions 
and they finally decided to give us

the total data of 23 wards of Tokyo and

we put it up to the home page 
of Setagaya-ku.

This means that, oh, this is it.

Would you show the next page?

This is the data sent from TEPCO 
to Setagaya-ku.

This is August 31 last year 
at the height of summer.

It was pretty hot though.
This is the peak of 13.36 million kW

and the reduction target is the green line 
and the blue line here is the actual usage.

It was clealy found in July already 
that there was much room

even with the data of a fairly 
wider district of 23 wards.

Known these above, 
Setagaya-ku began considering

the introduction of PPS. 
And page 9, please.

I made proposals to Mr. Edano, 
the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry.

We decided to change 
the electricity company to PPS fromTEPCO

and the sum of the electricity 
was 670 million yen.

There were reactions from the residents

saying they wanted to do the same thing at home 
and wondered how they could do it.

I proposed to Ministar Edano that there must be 
the reform of the so-called system

that generated electricity is distributed to homes

through the transmission line.

I also proposed him to expand 
retail market liberalization

on which debate must continue 
at this very moment

and to assist the affected areas 
by means of renewable energy.

Setagaya-ku has interchange with Minami-Sanriku Town 
and Minami-Soma City, for example,

and was determined to seek such institutional reform. 
These are activities so far.

Something like that at the moment.

Thank you, Mayor Hosaka.

As the last panelist, we would like Mis Tamiya 
to introduce herself

and to tell us about activities these days.

My name is Mayumi Tamiya and 
I came from Akita Prefecture.

Thank you for inviting me.

First, I would like to introduce the situation 
regarding renewable energy in Akita Prefecture.

When I tried to arrange all prefectures in the country

in abundance or potential of renewable energy,

I found potential of renewable energy of Akita Prefecture

is so big that it was the second place excluding Hokkaido.

Firstly it includes wind because very strong wind blows

in the coast of Akita Prefecture, and geothermal.

It also contains biomass of abundant forest resources

and the other biomass such as rice straw 
and rice husk because

agriculture is also very popular 
in Akita Prefecture.

Although winter is long actually, 
the sun shines strongly in summer.

So solar PV has a very big potential. It is said at the prefectural level

that they consider to send electricity generated by renewables

directly to Tokyo in inter-regional cooperation.

I will talk about the situation of the region's population.

As I've looked at look at the numbers at hand,

the population of Akita Prefecture was 1.1 million in 2008.

Almost 10,000 people are declining every year.

Increasing decline of population has continued,

such as one municipality disappears every year.

Rapid decline of population 
and aging are progressing.

Of course, There are some people who are very worried

about the survival of the village.

I returned to Akita two years ago after working in Tokyo

in the environment-related sector.

One of the big reason that young people 
are not able to return is the fact that

there aren't sufficient jobs for young people 
even if they want to do so.

Now I would like to talk about 
my energy-related business activities.

In order to connect the regional industries 
with consumers,

we are trying to make proposals 
with original products of new design

using regional resources 
such as food or forestry resources

in cooperation with designers and creators.

The sake industry in Tohoku area as a whole

was severely impacted 
after the earthquake of March 11 last year.

There were a lot of 'kuramoto', sake breweries,

which were threatened to be out of business

under the influence of the accident of Fukushima nuclear plant.

In these circumstances, there was an idea

among the people especially among kuramoto 
in Akita Prefecture

to organize an event to talk about sake

and to hear from kuramoto.

Some kuramoto wanted to talk 
abount energy as well as sake.

I was happy to coordinate 
to ask Mr. Tetsunari Iida of the ISEP

to appear at the talk event.

I don't think many people are quite interested 
both in sake and in such things

like survival of sake and renewable energy.

By combining them together, 
we managed to create a place

where sake lovers could think about 
renewable energy and also

where people interested in renewable energy 
could drink sake for the first time.

I might have contributed to it a bit.

In this kind of relationships 
we started the seminar last month

mainly in Akita City in Akita Prefecture to learn

how to expand the regional ownership 
of renewable energy.

It has just begun. It really has.
This is the situation right now.

Thank you, everybody.

I would like to have some comments 
from Mr. Gsänger

concerning the four stories up to now.

He mentioned earlier that there were 
also various types of citizen windmills.

Could you comment on this as well?

I want to go further into discussion.

It was mentioned in the first session today 
that it was a matter of people.

The theme of the first session was 
"Vision and Realization".

In order to think something and to achieve it, we have to think

who and how to do it and how to involve people.

The theme of this session is 
"Ownership and Public Participation".

I think however that there is 
considerable overlap between the two.

It is still quite worthwhile to hear 
about each and every case.

So I want to do so 
even if we have to repeat.

I would like to present these three 
as the themes of today.

Firstly, difficulty and significance 
of public participation

which has been discussed 
much in the first session.

It is prone to talk a beautiful story 
when we mention public participation however,

we want to share their experience in 
various processes until it will be achieved.

Secondly, the importance of 
human resources and networks

which were also discussed 
in the first session.

Can you show the power point?

I talk with a lot of people at various 
meetings in different places like this.

In every successful case there was 
always the person at the very front,

like the one who is standing in front 
of all the rest in this figure

who is dedicating 100% of time and 
passion of life of his or her own.

But there must be the ones

who have been helping him or her 
from behind

such as bankers, for example, 
who are not in front.

People of municipality does not come in front either

and does not do with 100% 
but support from behind.

Then there are others further behind 
who help him or her with 10%,

like the ones who have 
different professions

or the domestic workers

who help him or her in their spare time.

And much further behind, come also the ones

who are using 1% of 
their own time and money.

I think the connection like this 
is also very important.

Hopefully I want to hear about 
not only the ones in front

but also the human resources 
behind the scene,

like such a person was 
unexpectedly helpful.

Thirdly, it can not be done 
only by the strength of will.

It can be probably done with 
the strength of will in most cases

to a certain extent, 
but not in some cases.

Then we need mechanisms to help people 
who are willing to make it done.

So what can be done by the government 
or how can the government help?

We want to hear on these three points.

Please turn off the powerpoint.

Firstly, the significance and 
the difficulty of public participation.

There are different perceptions 
towards public participation.

So tell us your thought 
about public participation

followed by the significance 
and the difficulty.

I want to hear about raw experience 
as much as possible

and it is much appreciated if it is 
a lively and compelling story.

I think you inform us about it briefly 
in about a couple of minutes.

A difficult question, though, 
but as mentioned earlier,

a hundred people think in a hundred 
different way, I think.

This is absolutely so.

Even though we share the same goal 
to spread the renewable energy,

I think each and every person 
surely thinks differently.

I think renewable energy is also 
an important regional public goods.

Tons of people in the region, 
local citizens,

are not only aware of it. 
It is really not.

If I happen to be the one in front,

what I think I have to do by doing this

is to have them know it and notice

that it is to exploit the important 
resources of their own.

I think I have to do that but 
they are not quite aware of it.

That's what I have found difficult.

Professor Maruyama, please.

Speaking of the difficulties 
of public participation,

it is terribly time-consuming.

In order to form a consensus, 
or before that,

what people are thinking 
for example basically?

it is a time-consuming process 
to know it itself.

So that is a terribly difficult point.

And of course people are 
not always favorable to us

and there are difficulties 
in that sense.

Difficulty and significance 
are two sides of coin.

We can not to tell what people think important 
without asking them directly.

In my previous case, our aim 
is to help the promotion

of the area with a windmill.

We may not know what they really want

without listening to them 
over a decent time and effort.

Finally I found that they are 
happy with windmills

only if it does help their agriculture

even though windmills 
mean nothing to them.

I would not have known that 
without doing it.

According to the network 
mentioned earlier,

the part of 50%, in other words,

the mechanisms that support 
operations such as

the finance, the maintenance 
or the development,

I think they are very important. 
Those who are supposed

to support the business 
are often doing it by themselves actually.

Rather than helping the person in front

who are trying to promote 
the region from behind,

they themselves are doing the business.

The fact that such projects 
are increasing,

it is quite a difficult problem.

We will talk it later.
Thank you.

According to Mr. Takemoto 
from Bizen City

who paneled in the first session,

there were people who listen to him 
by no means.

In that case, all he did was 
just to listen to anything they say.

You would find the path 
to follow by doing so, he said.

I think that what 
Professor Maruyama said

was meant to be exactly the same thing.

Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.

Setagaya-ku has a population 
of 880,000 people,

but I think it now probably 
exceeds 90 million.

It is very populous, though.

This is a large power consumption area.

Its residents' awareness 
of the electricity is very high.

We decided to buy electricity from PPS

slightly cheaper than from 
Tokyo Electric Power Company.

There are also a considerable number 
of such people in this area

who want to buy renewable 
energy power in their houses

or in apartments as a whole 
where he or she lives

or wanted to buy in the joint 
purchase if possible.

The strength we think we have 
as a municipality is trust.

I'm willing to open a window 
of opportunities

taking advantage of this trust.

We have launched a regional forum

that promotes the use 
of renewable energy.

This is a framework which includes 
all financial institutions,

all universities, which present 
in the wards,

agricultural cooperative which 
we actually have in Setagaya-ku

and various co-ops as well.

On one hand, there are people

who want to do the business 
of renewable energy

which might be mainly solar PV panels 
and solar thermal panels in Setagaya-ku

or might be in the form 
of bulk purchase to spread it.

On the other hand, we would like to 
support and cheer up the disaster areas

such as Akita Prefecture or 
Nagano Prefecture, for example,

who are trying to launch 
renewable energy power business

as employment measures as well,

by purchasing their 
electricity selectively.

I think these two are our 
mainstream at the moment.

The local government should rather 
provide the precise information

than become a business principal.

I think information is very important 
at this moment

because it's not obvious yet actual and

particularly detailed condition 
of feed-in tariffs.

We think from the government's 
perspective that we will support

the spread of renewable energy 
as a whole

while holding forums or 
symposiums frequently

which citizens can access freely.

Thank you.

I think only the cases of small 
municipalities are often discussed

at a symposium like this 
to promote renewable energy.

I believe that you have been 
really motivated to hear Søren

in the first session.

I think you might not be able 
to find what to do

when you come home in Tokyo.

I think that was often 
the case up to now.

I think a lot of things are 
visible recently what you can do

even you live in urban areas 
as Mayor Hosaka mentioned.

He said they propose those things 
playing a modest role

behind the scene in a decent manner

rather than playing the lead, I think.
Thank you.

Then, Ms Tamiya, please.

We will talk a very fresh story.

We began learning the concept 
of "Community Power" in Akita

receiving lectures by people from ISEP.

We learned that benefit of projects of 
renewable energy would rather go

to companies of large capital

headquartered in Tokyo or overseas 
than fall in the local communities

without this concept of community power 
even if there is potential much.

We noticed that large companies 
withdraw if economy worsens

and we loose employment 
even we have attracted them.

We began noticing that 
the same thing would happen

without implementing the concept of 
"Community Power"

and that we need local ownership.

This kind of discussion begins 
to come out especially on wind power

but the leaders of the discussion 
are often much larger senior

perhaps because the whole 
communit is aging.

Assuming that the average age 
of the team are the age of 60's now,

I consider that the main leaders 
would be in their 70's

when the business starts successfully 
in something like ten years time.

I have a sense of crisis that 
the 30's would have to work

when I imagine the year 2050.

A lot of people have been increasingly 
coming back strangely in sync

whom I can share 
this sense of crisis with.

They don't know much 
about renewable energy first

but I find their motivation is high

when we have the study session 
or town planning.

I do not know what can be 
done right now

but I am trying to involve people 
younger than me as many as possible

while learning and sharing 
information with them.

I have a big concern 
that the form of community power

would be completely different
and that it would be determined

by the direction in which 
the leaders choose.

I am very grateful to receive 
this opportunity like this,

but the best and newest models 
in the world

would not perhaps work and 
even could not to be imitated as they are.

So there must be a lot of discussions 
and twists and turns,

and even conflicts, which I 
really don't want to call them so.

I think we have to take our time

because there are various people 
with various opinions.

Thank you very much.

I would like Stefan to introduce 
good examples overseas

of public participation regardless 
of the size of municipalities.

I think I want to talk about human resources 
and the network as second question.

Those who panel here might be in front 
and speak out in various places.

Among their supporters there might be someone 
whom they found unexpectedly important

or whose help had been very grateful.

I would like them to talk about these people 
without mentioning their personal names.

I think the business entity doing 100% and the local 
government are the two important actors, of course.

Who comes up in addition? This might be 
the key people in the administration of course.

I think it can be organized into two.

First, this might be a very local story.

When I tried to launch the business 
with the assistance of many people, I remember,

there were much more people of the opposition 
including the municipality than those in favor of it.

I was advised to quit it and was 
informed that it would be impossible.

But there were several people of the region or among 
my drinking buddy entirely unrelated to this business,

who kindly told me that they would support me if I did it.

I think these words of them boosted my feelings.

Secondly, it is natural that people of the business 
region work hard when you start it

but Is there anybody who has a wealth of knowledge 
of renewable energy in the city of 100,000 people?

Or is anyone with such knowledge of legal issues 
when you try to raise the investment or civil investment?

I am afraid there aren't unfortunately.

A person with such knowledge is 
or should be always, but in Japan.

I have got the cooperation of those people 
to be allowed to use their knowledge.

I think that these two above were very important

and they might be the big factors 
that I might be able to stand in front.

Thank you. When speaking about town revitalization, 
it is often said that there must be 'Three Actors'.

Outsiders, Young People and a Fool.
I am afraid that Mr. Hara might be a Fool in this context.

He would do it despite the opposite of all, it is a Fool.

There must be also those who support 
from outside like us, Outsiders.

I think that people with young heart in the region would 
also satisfy the condition of young people above,

actually people are helping him in his office now.

This can be applied to renewable energy projects 
as to town revitalization. I thought it to hear him.

Professor Maruyama, please.

What I am going to tell you overlaps with the previous story.

People who are expected to play supporting roles 
of business are very important, I think,

and they often play the lead in Japan 
rather than supporting roles.

I think it is one of the circumstances 
that makes the situation has become so difficult.

It might be the case in biomass 
or small hydro or wind power,

it is often well done up to 
construction phase,

but not in the following phase, especiall the maintenance 
and business decision making

as well as managing business risks 
are often surprisingly neglected.

I think those things are important.

Then I will talk about network and human resources.

Mr. Hara has been doing business locally 
where he lives in his native town.

I was born in Tokyo and happened to live in 
Aomori City at the time I stated the project.

The project was in a place called Ajigasawa 
while I lived in Aomori City away from the site.

Human resources in the regional core city 
like the prefectural capital are important,

and those networks are being maintained well also 
in Aomori Prefecture like in Akita Prefecture, I think.

I think it is applicable without exception to all areas
that there surely exists such people

who can work for the region focusing on the future 
of the region rather than self-interest.

Probably it is important to support them 
creating mechanisms

or in terms of practical business matters.

I think the roles of citizens living in the prefectural capital 
or universities they are considerably important.

They are described as 
local public human resources recently.

There are people who can still help 
in the local community.

Mr. Suzuki of Hokkaido mentioned 
earlier in the first session

that you should do it anyway,

but those people are surely necessary 
in business perspective

even if there are the one who dares to do it.

It is desirable this can be done in the region.

Next, Mayor Hosaka, please.

I think you are going to start now, 
so I would like you to comment

also on the type of human resources you are seeking 
or on the kind of people you want to find.

It is not yet obvious that the Japanese society 
is either changed at a first glance

after the nuclear accident 
and the earthquake of March 11

but I think it is because the next thing 
has not come in the clear form.

I feel the sign of change from the ground up.

because attention to the regional forum of 
renewable energy I mentioned earlier is very high.

Since I have been active as a politician 
close to NPOs or civic movements,

I think that the achievements of people 
who have come to open up

in tough conditions in NPOs 
or civic movements are quite large.

Among 880,000 residents of Setagaya-ku, 
there are several kind of people.

In the economic community of 
the district, for example,

those whose ancestors had actually 
lived in Setagaya in the Edo era

are influential men representing economic 
organizations or agricultural cooperatives.

In that sense, there are influential people 
in the old region of Setagaya.

Interest to renewable energy is high 
even among those people.

Compared with those mentioned above,

there are new business entities 
such as co-op, NPOs or citizen businesses,

while some of them lives in Setagaya-ku 
for thirty or forty years

even they are said to be new,

each of these two are doing business in different shapes 
sharing the same goal or cooperating each other.

As human resources, those who can surely 
talk to the people of different positions

not having someone monopolize the information

but providing information fairly 
are very important.

From the viewpoint of government, 
in order to provide information impartially

to those of citizen business or of pure business,

government could by no means provide 
exclusive information to a certain company.

I think this is a huge opportunity 
regarding the market size.

In that sense those 
who can connect government

with the business entities 
and can properly communicate

with people of different social position 
are fairly important.

Perhaps one of the reasons 
why Mr. Hara could have done the business until today

is the fact that he lives in Iida City,

There are a lot of people who say good things 
waving the flag and do not process practical matters.

If there are some who could do both of them 
and do not seek self-interest,

our society might change drastically.

Thank you. Mentioned in the first session 
when talking how to spread renewables,

there are opinion leaders even among this audience.

There must be about five opinion leaders among 
a hundred people today. Søren Hermansen said so.

I think that it is also important to find such people 
regardless of the scale, if it is small or big.

And he mentioned public mind.

Our director, Mr. Iida writes recently observing 
Mr. Hara about three requirements of the leader.

First comes the public mind, 
not to seek self-interest,

next comes a certain 
proper sense of business

and third comes the confidence 
earned in the region.

I think these are also important, how to find it. 
We talk while drinking with something in mind.

I think we have it spread through briefings in various forms.
Then Ms Tamiya, please.

You talk about what people you want 
or you can recruit through Ustream.

I want help from outside among the three which are 
trust, business sense and public mind is business sense.

It is a practical matter. But I guess a practical matter

can supplement in the business base, 
so it in fact does not come first.

I think that I want someone who could run with us
regardless from which region he or she is.

We can be connected a lot through social networks 
and it is desirable to spread such a circle, I think.

There was a figure of followers 
behind their leader shown earlier.

One of the reasons I was invited here, I believe, 
was that there were greater leaders in the region.

They have been continuously appealing the potential 
of renewable energies since before 311.

There are three citizen windmills even in Akita Prefecture 
and they are said to be increasing.

There are those who have been doing such things 
by very small number of people.

I have been frequently consulting them or talking 
with them about various dreams such as

building at least one 100% citizen invested windmill 
even in Akita City since about two years before

The fact I can follow them as their followers along 
with other younger people, I owe it to them much.

I believe such people are important.

I am running a seminar with a help from young 
people voluntarily who say it is very interesting.

They are much interested in being connected 
with the world with the concept of "Community Power"

and they find so-called frontier of knowledge.
There are people who are frustrated with daily routine work

and are unhappy with their daily life in Akita
and have an intention to go out if they had a chance.

They come and help us. 
I find they are very much helpful.

Thank you.

There is a phrase "Think Globally, Act Locally".

On the other hand Søren says "Think Locally, Act Locally" 
and I think they are all linked.

We have about twenty minutes remaining, 
so we would like to talk about mechanisms.

Besides the business risks 
which you have to take by yourselves,

there must have been, among 
the business activities until now,

various problems or obstacles related to the rules 
of administrative rules both in local and national level.

I think that they have the experience so far 
in overcoming those above.

I think there must be a wall and 
there are many ways to overcome

such as smashing from the front 
or taking a detour.

In addition to these above, I would like to hear about 
such mechanisms which make things easier

or about mechanisms without which things might be easier.

We have heard much about 
the role of local governments.

If you have something to add, 
we are happy to hear that.

I would like to hear from Stefan 
after hearing from every panelist around.

First we would like to have Mr. Hara.

I think collaboration with the local 
government is absolutely necessary.

In our case, for example, I think there must have been
a lot of discussions in Iida City

when the local government 
gives us the first permission

to use roofs of public properties 
for the purpose outside.

The government have permitted us the long-term 
outside purpose use for twenty years

for the business plan of our fund. 
I think this was very large.

Iida City did not spend any money actually
but supported the citizen business

by such a mechanism. That was pretty significant.

We want to continue working on 
similar renewable energy projects,

we have to extract business risks 
and take measures to them

but there are known risks which cannot be 
measured in business base.

It is also very important for the government

how to make mechanisms to support 
the business on such risks.

I would like Mayor Hosaka to comment on this.

Speaking of the case of Iida City, 
we often mention this long-term permission

for twenty years which is the first case.

Do you have experienced 
the bureaucracy so-called vertical wall?

We have a lot.
It will be a concrete example.

Seven years after installation of solar panels,

unexpected re-roofing became necessary 
which was not originally planned.

We had an agreement to cope with 
these things like re-roofing

including prior discussions. But that has often 
not been shared within the municipality.

The department in charge of the building and 
technical department such as construction department

arbitrarily discussed and informed us 
right before removing panels.

The new roofing they planned made 
re-installing of solar panels impossible.

We talk with the government of Iida City 
to share such information.

Thank you. Next, Professor Maruyama please

The most important rule, I think, 
the government have to follow,

is that it will not do its own energy business.

With respect to the business like this,

a lot of know-how on the local natural 
conditions should be accumulated.

This is not only technically but also socially.

It should not do it because officials in charge 
are reassigned too often.

Mechanisms to encourage competition to promote 
socially good business widely is another point.

Regarding wind power, impact 
on the environment, for example,

can be reduced as close to zero as possible 
if you spend time and money infinitely.

On the other hand, wind power business is no longer viable 
as a business if you spend time and money infinitely.

There exists a mechanism at the moment

that the business would become profitable 
if you ease up environmental measures.

It is important to make mechanisms such that 
making agreement carefully and investigating carefully

make the business more profitable.

For example in Denmark, they ranks each area 
based on the data present in public.

The area of a certain rank where the assessment is unnecessary

or that of another rank where one can venture 
but might be opposed.

A decent business entity selects 
the area of less impact.

It is very important to implement 
a mechanism to promote good business.

I guess it is also important to support a good energy 
from the market side such that, for example,

Setagaya-ku won't buy even the renewable energy 
from the business entity who ignore the region.

In a certain sense Japan has accumulated 
the experiences of organic farming or thereabouts

and those can be applied quite a lot actually to renewable energies.

Thank you.
The local government rather support

from behind by providing information, 
for example, than do their own business.

And we can support by selecting the good one.

Mayor Hosaka, please.

How disastrous results the local government had 
brought so far by doing their own businesses,

I often heard it from Mr. Iida.

Subsidy of 100,000 yen for 
installing one solar panel unit

was actually abolished 
from this year in Setagaya-ku.

Some people might think that we take one 
step backwards from viewpoint of budget.

As I said earlier, we will try not to loose trust
by always providing accurate and timely information

and by holding regional forums of renewable energy 
to share such information and by continuing these above.

There will be various deployments 
quite probably after this coming summer

such as specialty shops of solar panels 
advertising loudly opened by various companies

who think the opportunities are coming.

Some people say they don't know at all 
how to determine when and where to buy.

There are some places like a consumer information 
center in Setagaya-ku.

But for now, they don't have such knowledge 
to be able to provide fair information

such as what to see to know good and bad points.

We have to train them so that 
they could point out the check point

or the problem on the time of purchase 
from consumers' perspective.

From now on we should offer rather space to 
ambitious people or businesses than subsidies.

We should also offer space to venture companies 
of energy conservation even it is not of renewable energy.

Space is crucial for companies in the launch phase, 
especially in the location like Setagaya-ku.

I think if they could do this as an industrial policy 
and for the utilization of vacant store or vacant house.

There is already a certain activity called 
Town Planning Trust Fund

and this raises funds for other 
ambitious businesses or citizens.

I think we can consider a fund to support 
such citizen businesses in this field.

The administratives mechanism 
to cover at the time of such disaster

should be built-in in the stage like now.

It is absolutely impossible to cover only a certain field 
when something disastrous has happened.

So we are happy to hear you from the field and 
we will have to find a way in various means.

Thank you.

Speaking of information, I am also 
a part-time lecturer at a university.

I asked to students for ideas of mechanisms 
to promote renewable energy,

and one of the ideas was a renewable energy electricity 
version of "Kakaku.com (a price comparison site)."

It is still important to organize information.

What mentioned at the end might become 
the renewable-energy-related town planning.

It is very important because it could become 
the opportunity to remove the vertical wall.

Lastly, Ms Tamiya, please.

We don't have a direct relationship much 
with local governments yet.

I think it might be a challenge in the future 
we have to accept.

But I think municipalities which happen to have 
mayors like the mayor of Setagaya-ku

who can lead the people in the area 
could make much progress.

But there are many municipalities 
which don't have such leaders.

I want to seek good ideas from a variety of people 
to approach the latter municipalities.

I have spoken as Mayor of Setagaya-ku while ago 
but I forgot to say something.

I believe there must be many municipalities throughout 
the country which are preparing something in this field

and people of ISEP are supposed to know the best 
which municipalities are preparing what.

Basic municipalities have to work 
together to exchange ideas

from both power producers and 
consumer sides which are different.

I think a so-called exchange forum 
could be fairly helpful.

I think we take it as our homework.
Thank you.

I would like to hear from Stefan in response to 
the efforts we have heard until now.

There are mechanisms which support renewable 
energy projects in the region, for example,

a condition of investments in Denmark that investors 
must be from local municipalities.

Could you comment on such mechanisms 
or a role of local governments

to promote local renewable energy projects if any?

Thank you. We have only five minutes remaining.

So please alIow me to cancel the questions 
from the floor in this session.

Lastly, we have been doing this session 
with the theme of "Ownership and Public Participation".

I would like to hear someone who have 
something else to do from now on,

or something in terms of public participation. 
Is there anyone to speak up?

It is a future outlook.

This might be a plan you want to do, 
or the next business or project.

Is this too difficult all of a sudden?

Do you have anything, Mr. Hara?

In this fiscal year, we have expanded so-called 
zero yen system a little beyond Iida City

and I hope we could promote this across 
the region of south Shinshu.

Until now in case with subsidies or using 
so-called zero yen systems with no subsidies,

it has been limited to individual housing.

After this coming July when feed-in tariffs begins,

we are going to try so-called 
distributed megawatts system

which several sites collectively generate megawatts 
in cooperation with the leading companies of the region.

That is the goal at the moment.

At the start of feed-in tariffs finally, 
I think we will try a lot of things

to increase momentum taking advantage 
of the timing at least in Setagaya-ku.

It includes Symposiums held by the private sector.

Of course, what we are talking here is quite hard 
for general residents to grasp precisely.

The most obvious point is the fact 
that the municipal office is connected

to the electricity company other than 
Tokyo Electric Power Company.

This made people think whether they 
might be able to do the same.

We are just asking the Ministry 
of Economy, Trade and Industry

to let us do the test model case of 
joint purchasing of renewable energy

which might be just an experimental project ahead of schedule.

If it becomes visible that general households elaborate 
how to choose electricity

and eventually choose green power, it would spreads out fast.

We will do our best because I think 
that wall is also a little thick.

In this session we have received feedback from a variety of 
positions in a variety of information about cases.

On the figure shown at the beginning of the session, 
there are people like Mr. Hara and Professor Maruyama

who dedicate a hundred percent.

And there are also those who support from behind 
and there were a wide variety of positions,

of various professions in a variety of relationships.

It is possible not because they 
are in smaller municipalities.

They also have difficulties to some extent

and have been done amazingly.
On the other hand,

it does not mean that there is nothing we can do 
because we live in the city.

I think that we could have shown the fact that 
we have a variety of choice using various information

and that we can participate in various proportion 
of renewable energy projects in this regard.

Stefan has demonstrated the global trend, 
then that "Ownership and Public Participation"

affect much not only the flow of money 
but also that of feeling,

and that the community is very important 
for the project of renewable energy.

I would like to end this session now.
I hope the applause for the participants, please.