WEBVTT 00:00:03.300 --> 00:00:07.078 Now I would like to start the second session, the afternoon session. 00:00:07.345 --> 00:00:09.658 We have two sessions in the afternoon. 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:11.223 Firstly, we have the second session 00:00:11.293 --> 00:00:13.874 with the theme of "Ownership and Public Participation". 00:00:14.003 --> 00:00:19.329 Now we would like to have a keynote for 20 minutes by Mr. Stefan Gsänger 00:00:19.328 --> 00:00:24.931 who is the Secretary General of the World Wind Energy Association. 00:00:24.997 --> 00:00:28.937 After that, we are going to have a panel discussion 00:00:29.023 --> 00:00:32.989 with panelists like the previous session. 00:00:33.034 --> 00:00:38.825 Now, I would like to introduce Stefan briefly. 00:00:39.044 --> 00:00:43.627 Stefan is the Secretary General of the World Wind Energy Association 00:00:43.711 --> 00:00:46.569 and has been playing the leader role of the development 00:00:46.768 --> 00:00:49.510 of wind power penetration in the world. 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:55.739 World Wind Energy Association holds the wind power conference every year 00:00:55.934 --> 00:01:01.656 and there is an important session or a working group 00:01:01.970 --> 00:01:04.285 which is to increase the renewable energy 00:01:04.417 --> 00:01:06.367 democratically in the region from now on 00:01:06.370 --> 00:01:10.756 sharing experiences and achievements 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.241 of the communities around the world 00:01:14.264 --> 00:01:18.412 with the theme of "Community Power". 00:01:18.420 --> 00:01:22.278 He has been committing this group where they have discussed 00:01:22.292 --> 00:01:26.202 how to achieve it and what concept we should have. 00:01:26.950 --> 00:01:34.007 Please welcome the speaker, Mr. Stephan Gsänger. 00:22:01.494 --> 00:22:03.901 Now we are going to start the panel discussion. 00:22:03.902 --> 00:22:05.974 So we would like to have the panelists on stage. 00:22:46.674 --> 00:22:50.074 We enter the panel discussion of the second session. 00:22:50.394 --> 00:22:54.434 I am the moderator, Noriaki Yamashita, Senior Research Fellow 00:22:54.634 --> 00:22:56.854 of Institute for Sustainable Energy Policies. 00:22:57.064 --> 00:23:03.014 I am also enrolled doctoral program at the Free University of Berlin in Berlin 00:23:03.084 --> 00:23:05.084 although I live in Japan. 00:23:05.584 --> 00:23:08.454 So Stefan and I might speak in German 00:23:08.574 --> 00:23:10.184 but I will do my best so that it might not happen. 00:23:10.304 --> 00:23:14.254 The theme of the second session is "Ownership and Public Participation". 00:23:14.274 --> 00:23:17.634 We have asked him to speak as a keynote 00:23:17.654 --> 00:23:23.354 concerning the community power movement as seen from wind power. 00:23:23.474 --> 00:23:26.084 And I want to have a discussion focused on "Ownership and Public Participation" 00:23:26.134 --> 00:23:29.424 with the people who have involved various projects 00:23:29.504 --> 00:23:36.654 in various positions and in various areas not limited to wind power. 00:23:37.154 --> 00:23:45.534 I think we have audience of about 85 at this conference today. 00:23:45.584 --> 00:23:48.034 We are broadcasting this conference on Ustream. 00:23:48.014 --> 00:23:50.534 If you have anyone who wants to look at today's conference later, 00:23:50.574 --> 00:23:52.634 please inform him or her to check the home page of 00:23:52.624 --> 00:23:54.144 ISEP (Institute for Sustainable Energy Policies). 00:23:54.194 --> 00:24:01.564 The video of this conference will be archived 00:24:01.804 --> 00:24:05.004 as well as the past Ustream casts. 00:24:05.134 --> 00:24:07.644 I want to go into the discussion in the second session. 00:24:07.894 --> 00:24:11.674 I think I want each panelist to do self-introduction 00:24:11.774 --> 00:24:16.584 concerning what he or she involves in each region first. 00:24:16.684 --> 00:24:21.094 We have panelists from various regions in Japan. 00:24:21.194 --> 00:24:25.784 Mr. Hara of the Ohisama Shimpo Energy is from Nagano Prefecture, 00:24:25.804 --> 00:24:28.184 and Professor Maruyama who came from Nagoya today 00:24:28.214 --> 00:24:32.104 involved in the project in Aomori Prefecture. 00:24:32.344 --> 00:24:36.384 We also have a Mayor, Mr. Hosaka of Setagaya-ku in Tokyo. 00:24:36.554 --> 00:24:39.514 And we have Mis Tamiya from Akita Prefecture 00:24:39.554 --> 00:24:42.774 who is a planner and has launched a group called Kasane-Tsumugu. 00:24:43.014 --> 00:24:45.274 I think we would like to have panelists to introduce themselves 00:24:45.304 --> 00:24:47.454 and what they have been doing. And after that 00:24:47.464 --> 00:24:52.034 we want to discuss from the viewpoint of "Ownership and Public Participation". 00:24:52.084 --> 00:24:54.534 First, we would like to have Mr. Hara. 00:24:57.064 --> 00:24:59.604 Hello everyone. Thank you for the introduction. 00:24:59.694 --> 00:25:02.664 My name is Hara of Ohisama Shimpo Energy. 00:25:02.664 --> 00:25:05.514 I am from Iida City in Nagano Prefecture, 00:25:05.624 --> 00:25:08.284 in the south of the Shinshu. 00:25:08.364 --> 00:25:12.034 The living area of Iida City is populated by more than 105,000 people 00:25:12.134 --> 00:25:19.374 and located around 500 meters above sea level. 00:25:19.554 --> 00:25:21.474 This is an area of approximately 170,000 people 00:25:21.714 --> 00:25:23.244 and of 1920 square kilometers 00:25:23.344 --> 00:25:25.044 including neighboring towns and villages 00:25:25.194 --> 00:25:26.714 so we have 170,000 people approximately 00:25:26.874 --> 00:25:35.734 in the same area as Osaka Prefecture or Kagawa Prefecture. 00:25:35.854 --> 00:25:39.944 In fiscal 2004, in effect we might have entered the fiscal year 2005, 00:25:40.004 --> 00:25:43.944 we started the business in the mechanism called citizen investment 00:25:44.114 --> 00:25:49.014 raising funds and investing it to projects to reduce CO2 emissions 00:25:49.094 --> 00:25:57.334 and reduce to the investors the profit produced from the projects. 00:25:57.404 --> 00:26:00.274 We have used the mechanism of the citizen windmill and citizen investment 00:26:00.334 --> 00:26:04.494 which were launched by Mr. Suzuki in Hokkaido 00:26:04.474 --> 00:26:07.634 who has paneled in the previous session in the morning 00:26:07.684 --> 00:26:13.534 and we have raised five funds so far by using these knowledge. 00:26:13.624 --> 00:26:16.494 It has been 840 million yen approximately. 00:26:16.604 --> 00:26:20.324 We have projects mainly of solar power 00:26:20.374 --> 00:26:25.194 including energy conservation and biomass so far 00:26:25.284 --> 00:26:30.324 and we have installed solar power 00:26:30.374 --> 00:26:37.234 of close to 1,440 kW at 210 sites excluding ones under construction now. 00:26:37.334 --> 00:26:44.074 The projects have been distributed in various areas to reduce CO2 emissions 00:26:44.144 --> 00:26:48.254 and to distribute the profit to the people who have invested. 00:26:48.284 --> 00:26:53.634 We have been promoting citizen investors to come on the places 00:26:53.714 --> 00:26:58.144 rather than simply investing 00:26:58.214 --> 00:27:03.094 so that the business is working together with local stakeholders and citizens 00:27:03.184 --> 00:27:10.904 and we are doing business such that local government is involved properly. 00:27:14.474 --> 00:27:16.994 Thank you. Next, Professor Maruyama, please. 00:27:17.024 --> 00:27:19.594 My name is Maruyama. Thank you for inviting me today. 00:27:19.684 --> 00:27:24.664 As profession I have been involved in research and teaching of sociology 00:27:29.704 --> 00:27:31.684 in the Graduate School of Nagoya University. 00:27:31.744 --> 00:27:39.304 My theme of research is how to have renewable energy 00:27:39.404 --> 00:27:42.424 rooted better in the community. 00:27:42.454 --> 00:27:45.714 Beside the research as profession I aim to increase 00:27:45.714 --> 00:27:49.074 the best practices of it properly in Japan. 00:27:49.184 --> 00:27:53.544 For me, this is as important as the research as profession. 00:27:53.724 --> 00:28:02.184 Not primarily because of this, I am the board chairman of an NPO 00:28:02.214 --> 00:28:10.064 which have built a so-called citizen windmill in Aomori Prefecture. 00:28:10.204 --> 00:28:14.514 I think I am a director of power producer formally 00:28:14.574 --> 00:28:20.294 So I am a sole social scientist in the world, I guess, 00:28:20.394 --> 00:28:23.754 who is at the same time a director of power producer. 00:28:23.754 --> 00:28:30.694 I just mentioned the best practices and good practices, im my opinion, 00:28:30.724 --> 00:28:41.164 have to satisfy a lot of and a wider variety of people. 00:28:41.254 --> 00:28:48.694 Actually wind power is not a terribly profitable business. 00:28:48.824 --> 00:28:54.214 Of course it is possible to earn a stable course. 00:28:54.254 --> 00:28:56.584 But it is not yet incredibly lucrative. 00:28:56.604 --> 00:29:01.704 So we focus on how to produce value-added 00:29:01.754 --> 00:29:06.714 besides a direct economic effect. 00:29:06.814 --> 00:29:10.414 In our case of wind power in Aomori, 00:29:10.434 --> 00:29:17.214 roughly half of the investment is local public investment in terms of prefecture-level. 00:29:17.324 --> 00:29:22.714 The remaining 50% is from large cities such as Tokyo or Osaka. 00:29:22.804 --> 00:29:33.274 In that sense it is half and half and makes connections well among people. 00:29:33.524 --> 00:29:39.954 Not only to return simply the money of investment, 00:29:40.014 --> 00:29:46.164 we have activities focused on an effort to create a ripple effect 00:29:46.224 --> 00:29:50.654 triggered by the windmill such as the sale of agricultural products 00:29:50.684 --> 00:29:54.704 of the region where windmill is located. 00:29:58.714 --> 00:30:01.844 Thank you very much. Next, Mayor Hosaka please. 00:30:10.214 --> 00:30:16.754 I would like to explain it using some of the powerpoint. 00:30:16.874 --> 00:30:18.834 I am Nobuto Hosaka, Mayor of Setagaya-ku. 00:30:18.844 --> 00:30:21.174 Could you show the fifth page. 00:30:21.294 --> 00:30:27.814 I became the mayor in April (2011) 00:30:27.874 --> 00:30:30.084 after the accident of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station 00:30:30.204 --> 00:30:31.574 of Tokyo Electric Power Company 00:30:31.624 --> 00:30:35.464 when power saving has been said to be crucial. 00:30:35.964 --> 00:30:41.074 Can you see it? It is something strange a little. 00:30:41.134 --> 00:30:44.604 Sorry, I will fix it. Yes, I continue disregarding it. 00:30:44.684 --> 00:30:47.774 It has been said that the power saving is crucial 00:30:47.804 --> 00:30:51.844 and power outage might happen at any time. 00:30:51.884 --> 00:30:59.204 We wanted to know the actual usage at a moment in Setagaya-ku 00:30:59.274 --> 00:31:04.824 and the amount of electricity TEOCO was able to supply. 00:31:04.884 --> 00:31:10.074 I just tried to show people so-called electricity forecast 00:31:10.194 --> 00:31:12.994 which TEPCO is still doing 00:31:13.114 --> 00:31:20.834 and can be seen on a computer screen or on a smartphone . 00:31:20.874 --> 00:31:24.044 We asked TEPCO to inform us how much electricity 00:31:24.084 --> 00:31:25.914 we were actually using in Setagaya-ku in the electricity forecast. 00:31:26.024 --> 00:31:32.554 We did various interactions and they finally decided to give us 00:31:32.774 --> 00:31:37.724 the total data of 23 wards of Tokyo and 00:31:37.754 --> 00:31:40.974 we put it up to the home page of Setagaya-ku. 00:31:40.994 --> 00:31:47.474 This means that, oh, this is it. 00:31:47.674 --> 00:31:52.074 Would you show the next page? 00:31:52.154 --> 00:31:55.394 This is the data sent from TEPCO to Setagaya-ku. 00:31:55.504 --> 00:31:59.494 This is August 31 last year at the height of summer. 00:31:59.624 --> 00:32:06.514 It was pretty hot though. This is the peak of 13.36 million kW 00:32:06.574 --> 00:32:12.084 and the reduction target is the green line and the blue line here is the actual usage. 00:32:12.164 --> 00:32:16.160 It was clealy found in July already that there was much room 00:32:16.506 --> 00:32:21.554 even with the data of a fairly wider district of 23 wards. 00:32:21.724 --> 00:32:33.014 Known these above, Setagaya-ku began considering 00:32:33.144 --> 00:32:40.384 the introduction of PPS. And page 9, please. 00:32:40.624 --> 00:32:46.884 I made proposals to Mr. Edano, the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry. 00:32:46.994 --> 00:32:52.294 We decided to change the electricity company to PPS fromTEPCO 00:32:52.524 --> 00:33:00.494 and the sum of the electricity was 670 million yen. 00:33:00.594 --> 00:33:06.444 There were reactions from the residents 00:33:06.534 --> 00:33:10.244 saying they wanted to do the same thing at home and wondered how they could do it. 00:33:10.274 --> 00:33:15.094 I proposed to Ministar Edano that there must be the reform of the so-called system 00:33:15.224 --> 00:33:21.064 that generated electricity is distributed to homes 00:33:21.194 --> 00:33:25.534 through the transmission line. 00:33:25.674 --> 00:33:29.774 I also proposed him to expand retail market liberalization 00:33:29.814 --> 00:33:33.704 on which debate must continue at this very moment 00:33:33.784 --> 00:33:38.954 and to assist the affected areas by means of renewable energy. 00:33:39.044 --> 00:33:43.144 Setagaya-ku has interchange with Minami-Sanriku Town and Minami-Soma City, for example, 00:33:43.364 --> 00:33:48.054 and was determined to seek such institutional reform. These are activities so far. 00:33:48.154 --> 00:33:50.614 Something like that at the moment. 00:33:52.574 --> 00:33:53.464 Thank you, Mayor Hosaka. 00:33:53.964 --> 00:33:57.214 As the last panelist, we would like Mis Tamiya to introduce herself 00:33:57.294 --> 00:34:00.534 and to tell us about activities these days. 00:34:01.034 --> 00:34:04.364 My name is Mayumi Tamiya and I came from Akita Prefecture. 00:34:04.384 --> 00:34:06.384 Thank you for inviting me. 00:34:06.444 --> 00:34:13.914 First, I would like to introduce the situation regarding renewable energy in Akita Prefecture. 00:34:14.054 --> 00:34:18.234 When I tried to arrange all prefectures in the country 00:34:18.414 --> 00:34:23.184 in abundance or potential of renewable energy, 00:34:23.254 --> 00:34:28.594 I found potential of renewable energy of Akita Prefecture 00:34:28.644 --> 00:34:32.094 is so big that it was the second place excluding Hokkaido. 00:34:32.144 --> 00:34:37.094 Firstly it includes wind because very strong wind blows 00:34:37.154 --> 00:34:39.154 in the coast of Akita Prefecture, and geothermal. 00:34:39.234 --> 00:34:42.254 It also contains biomass of abundant forest resources 00:34:42.254 --> 00:34:46.174 and the other biomass such as rice straw and rice husk because 00:34:46.234 --> 00:34:49.824 agriculture is also very popular in Akita Prefecture. 00:34:49.904 --> 00:34:55.904 Although winter is long actually, the sun shines strongly in summer. 00:34:55.954 --> 00:35:03.514 So solar PV has a very big potential. It is said at the prefectural level 00:35:03.624 --> 00:35:09.114 that they consider to send electricity generated by renewables 00:35:09.134 --> 00:35:13.444 directly to Tokyo in inter-regional cooperation. 00:35:13.594 --> 00:35:18.334 I will talk about the situation of the region's population. 00:35:18.394 --> 00:35:20.904 As I've looked at look at the numbers at hand, 00:35:20.994 --> 00:35:26.174 the population of Akita Prefecture was 1.1 million in 2008. 00:35:26.244 --> 00:35:31.734 Almost 10,000 people are declining every year. 00:35:31.764 --> 00:35:33.504 Increasing decline of population has continued, 00:35:33.544 --> 00:35:35.164 such as one municipality disappears every year. 00:35:35.204 --> 00:35:36.994 Rapid decline of population and aging are progressing. 00:35:37.124 --> 00:35:39.914 Of course, There are some people who are very worried 00:35:39.924 --> 00:35:42.204 about the survival of the village. 00:35:42.224 --> 00:35:46.334 I returned to Akita two years ago after working in Tokyo 00:35:46.374 --> 00:35:50.854 in the environment-related sector. 00:35:50.874 --> 00:35:53.704 One of the big reason that young people are not able to return is the fact that 00:35:53.849 --> 00:35:57.969 there aren't sufficient jobs for young people even if they want to do so. 00:35:58.105 --> 00:36:03.713 Now I would like to talk about my energy-related business activities. 00:36:03.852 --> 00:36:06.788 In order to connect the regional industries with consumers, 00:36:06.959 --> 00:36:11.681 we are trying to make proposals with original products of new design 00:36:11.844 --> 00:36:17.987 using regional resources such as food or forestry resources 00:36:18.110 --> 00:36:26.840 in cooperation with designers and creators. 00:36:27.034 --> 00:36:31.914 The sake industry in Tohoku area as a whole 00:36:32.194 --> 00:36:36.614 was severely impacted after the earthquake of March 11 last year. 00:36:36.754 --> 00:36:40.624 There were a lot of 'kuramoto', sake breweries, 00:36:40.674 --> 00:36:44.274 which were threatened to be out of business 00:36:44.354 --> 00:36:47.834 under the influence of the accident of Fukushima nuclear plant. 00:36:47.894 --> 00:36:50.924 In these circumstances, there was an idea 00:36:50.994 --> 00:36:54.844 among the people especially among kuramoto in Akita Prefecture 00:36:54.924 --> 00:36:57.454 to organize an event to talk about sake 00:36:57.594 --> 00:37:00.484 and to hear from kuramoto. 00:37:00.534 --> 00:37:05.614 Some kuramoto wanted to talk abount energy as well as sake. 00:37:05.694 --> 00:37:10.834 I was happy to coordinate to ask Mr. Tetsunari Iida of the ISEP 00:37:10.954 --> 00:37:13.864 to appear at the talk event. 00:37:13.884 --> 00:37:17.694 I don't think many people are quite interested both in sake and in such things 00:37:17.784 --> 00:37:22.614 like survival of sake and renewable energy. 00:37:22.654 --> 00:37:26.094 By combining them together, we managed to create a place 00:37:26.194 --> 00:37:30.214 where sake lovers could think about renewable energy and also 00:37:30.334 --> 00:37:35.144 where people interested in renewable energy could drink sake for the first time. 00:37:35.174 --> 00:37:37.174 I might have contributed to it a bit. 00:37:37.254 --> 00:37:41.064 In this kind of relationships we started the seminar last month 00:37:41.114 --> 00:37:46.084 mainly in Akita City in Akita Prefecture to learn 00:37:46.174 --> 00:37:51.894 how to expand the regional ownership of renewable energy. 00:37:51.914 --> 00:37:57.584 It has just begun. It really has. This is the situation right now. 00:37:59.904 --> 00:38:01.904 Thank you, everybody. 00:38:01.994 --> 00:38:05.984 I would like to have some comments from Mr. Gsänger 00:38:06.004 --> 00:38:09.624 concerning the four stories up to now. 00:38:09.674 --> 00:38:12.994 He mentioned earlier that there were also various types of citizen windmills. 00:38:13.054 --> 00:38:17.524 Could you comment on this as well? 00:40:39.594 --> 00:40:43.064 I want to go further into discussion. 00:40:43.564 --> 00:40:49.604 It was mentioned in the first session today that it was a matter of people. 00:40:49.674 --> 00:40:55.034 The theme of the first session was "Vision and Realization". 00:40:55.104 --> 00:40:58.654 In order to think something and to achieve it, we have to think 00:40:58.684 --> 00:41:01.744 who and how to do it and how to involve people. 00:41:01.824 --> 00:41:06.404 The theme of this session is "Ownership and Public Participation". 00:41:06.464 --> 00:41:08.464 I think however that there is considerable overlap between the two. 00:41:08.574 --> 00:41:13.034 It is still quite worthwhile to hear about each and every case. 00:41:13.184 --> 00:41:16.344 So I want to do so even if we have to repeat. 00:41:16.474 --> 00:41:20.954 I would like to present these three as the themes of today. 00:41:21.024 --> 00:41:26.164 Firstly, difficulty and significance of public participation 00:41:26.264 --> 00:41:28.984 which has been discussed much in the first session. 00:41:29.024 --> 00:41:33.504 It is prone to talk a beautiful story when we mention public participation however, 00:41:33.554 --> 00:41:37.574 we want to share their experience in various processes until it will be achieved. 00:41:37.614 --> 00:41:40.954 Secondly, the importance of human resources and networks 00:41:41.024 --> 00:41:43.134 which were also discussed in the first session. 00:41:43.184 --> 00:41:45.804 Can you show the power point? 00:41:45.944 --> 00:41:52.784 I talk with a lot of people at various meetings in different places like this. 00:41:52.874 --> 00:41:55.624 In every successful case there was always the person at the very front, 00:41:55.694 --> 00:41:57.974 like the one who is standing in front of all the rest in this figure 00:41:58.194 --> 00:42:06.614 who is dedicating 100% of time and passion of life of his or her own. 00:42:06.634 --> 00:42:08.834 But there must be the ones 00:42:08.874 --> 00:42:10.884 who have been helping him or her from behind 00:42:11.004 --> 00:42:13.554 such as bankers, for example, who are not in front. 00:42:13.584 --> 00:42:15.844 People of municipality does not come in front either 00:42:15.934 --> 00:42:18.334 and does not do with 100% but support from behind. 00:42:18.454 --> 00:42:20.824 Then there are others further behind who help him or her with 10%, 00:42:20.884 --> 00:42:23.014 like the ones who have different professions 00:42:23.044 --> 00:42:25.574 or the domestic workers 00:42:25.604 --> 00:42:27.764 who help him or her in their spare time. 00:42:27.774 --> 00:42:30.204 And much further behind, come also the ones 00:42:30.274 --> 00:42:32.954 who are using 1% of their own time and money. 00:42:33.124 --> 00:42:36.544 I think the connection like this is also very important. 00:42:36.574 --> 00:42:39.234 Hopefully I want to hear about not only the ones in front 00:42:39.284 --> 00:42:40.884 but also the human resources behind the scene, 00:42:40.924 --> 00:42:45.594 like such a person was unexpectedly helpful. 00:42:45.684 --> 00:42:49.484 Thirdly, it can not be done only by the strength of will. 00:42:49.544 --> 00:42:51.984 It can be probably done with the strength of will in most cases 00:42:51.994 --> 00:42:55.434 to a certain extent, but not in some cases. 00:42:55.464 --> 00:43:00.664 Then we need mechanisms to help people who are willing to make it done. 00:43:00.684 --> 00:43:04.434 So what can be done by the government or how can the government help? 00:43:04.454 --> 00:43:07.014 We want to hear on these three points. 00:43:07.184 --> 00:43:09.184 Please turn off the powerpoint. 00:43:09.274 --> 00:43:12.994 Firstly, the significance and the difficulty of public participation. 00:43:13.084 --> 00:43:15.954 There are different perceptions towards public participation. 00:43:16.014 --> 00:43:19.884 So tell us your thought about public participation 00:43:19.904 --> 00:43:22.354 followed by the significance and the difficulty. 00:43:22.384 --> 00:43:25.854 I want to hear about raw experience as much as possible 00:43:25.824 --> 00:43:29.154 and it is much appreciated if it is a lively and compelling story. 00:43:29.204 --> 00:43:33.824 I think you inform us about it briefly in about a couple of minutes. 00:43:40.354 --> 00:43:46.834 A difficult question, though, but as mentioned earlier, 00:43:46.884 --> 00:43:50.714 a hundred people think in a hundred different way, I think. 00:43:50.774 --> 00:43:53.144 This is absolutely so. 00:43:53.214 --> 00:43:57.904 Even though we share the same goal to spread the renewable energy, 00:43:57.984 --> 00:44:01.894 I think each and every person surely thinks differently. 00:44:01.964 --> 00:44:13.404 I think renewable energy is also an important regional public goods. 00:44:13.524 --> 00:44:18.444 Tons of people in the region, local citizens, 00:44:18.564 --> 00:44:21.954 are not only aware of it. It is really not. 00:44:22.094 --> 00:44:27.644 If I happen to be the one in front, 00:44:27.764 --> 00:44:30.324 what I think I have to do by doing this 00:44:30.424 --> 00:44:33.234 is to have them know it and notice 00:44:33.394 --> 00:44:41.844 that it is to exploit the important resources of their own. 00:44:41.904 --> 00:44:46.734 I think I have to do that but they are not quite aware of it. 00:44:46.794 --> 00:44:56.814 That's what I have found difficult. 00:44:57.084 --> 00:44:59.264 Professor Maruyama, please. 00:44:59.524 --> 00:45:05.074 Speaking of the difficulties of public participation, 00:45:05.124 --> 00:45:08.324 it is terribly time-consuming. 00:45:08.354 --> 00:45:11.164 In order to form a consensus, or before that, 00:45:11.204 --> 00:45:13.944 what people are thinking for example basically? 00:45:14.064 --> 00:45:17.164 it is a time-consuming process to know it itself. 00:45:17.274 --> 00:45:20.024 So that is a terribly difficult point. 00:45:20.104 --> 00:45:27.694 And of course people are not always favorable to us 00:45:27.774 --> 00:45:31.824 and there are difficulties in that sense. 00:45:31.979 --> 00:45:38.713 Difficulty and significance are two sides of coin. 00:45:38.834 --> 00:45:45.428 We can not to tell what people think important without asking them directly. 00:45:45.629 --> 00:45:50.544 In my previous case, our aim is to help the promotion 00:45:50.644 --> 00:45:54.214 of the area with a windmill. 00:45:54.244 --> 00:45:58.374 We may not know what they really want 00:45:58.404 --> 00:46:01.594 without listening to them over a decent time and effort. 00:46:01.644 --> 00:46:06.364 Finally I found that they are happy with windmills 00:46:06.394 --> 00:46:09.814 only if it does help their agriculture 00:46:09.954 --> 00:46:12.784 even though windmills mean nothing to them. 00:46:12.794 --> 00:46:15.614 I would not have known that without doing it. 00:46:15.704 --> 00:46:21.024 According to the network mentioned earlier, 00:46:21.044 --> 00:46:23.624 the part of 50%, in other words, 00:46:23.664 --> 00:46:27.734 the mechanisms that support operations such as 00:46:27.784 --> 00:46:30.254 the finance, the maintenance or the development, 00:46:30.404 --> 00:46:33.874 I think they are very important. Those who are supposed 00:46:33.934 --> 00:46:37.644 to support the business are often doing it by themselves actually. 00:46:37.734 --> 00:46:41.804 Rather than helping the person in front 00:46:41.854 --> 00:46:44.284 who are trying to promote the region from behind, 00:46:44.294 --> 00:46:46.014 they themselves are doing the business. 00:46:46.064 --> 00:46:51.564 The fact that such projects are increasing, 00:46:51.634 --> 00:46:54.234 it is quite a difficult problem. 00:46:54.324 --> 00:46:58.304 We will talk it later. Thank you. 00:46:58.354 --> 00:47:01.784 According to Mr. Takemoto from Bizen City 00:47:01.894 --> 00:47:02.324 who paneled in the first session, 00:47:02.434 --> 00:47:04.844 there were people who listen to him by no means. 00:47:04.904 --> 00:47:09.174 In that case, all he did was just to listen to anything they say. 00:47:09.324 --> 00:47:12.694 You would find the path to follow by doing so, he said. 00:47:12.724 --> 00:47:13.774 I think that what Professor Maruyama said 00:47:13.794 --> 00:47:15.094 was meant to be exactly the same thing. 00:47:15.384 --> 00:47:17.854 Next, Mayor Hosaka, please. 00:47:19.974 --> 00:47:25.794 Setagaya-ku has a population of 880,000 people, 00:47:25.984 --> 00:47:28.974 but I think it now probably exceeds 90 million. 00:47:29.134 --> 00:47:31.964 It is very populous, though. 00:47:32.244 --> 00:47:36.544 This is a large power consumption area. 00:47:36.584 --> 00:47:42.194 Its residents' awareness of the electricity is very high. 00:47:42.294 --> 00:47:45.924 We decided to buy electricity from PPS 00:47:45.964 --> 00:47:49.464 slightly cheaper than from Tokyo Electric Power Company. 00:47:49.634 --> 00:47:55.584 There are also a considerable number of such people in this area 00:47:55.624 --> 00:47:59.314 who want to buy renewable energy power in their houses 00:47:59.384 --> 00:48:01.574 or in apartments as a whole where he or she lives 00:48:01.624 --> 00:48:06.584 or wanted to buy in the joint purchase if possible. 00:48:06.804 --> 00:48:15.744 The strength we think we have as a municipality is trust. 00:48:15.964 --> 00:48:20.364 I'm willing to open a window of opportunities 00:48:20.394 --> 00:48:23.714 taking advantage of this trust. 00:48:23.764 --> 00:48:31.364 We have launched a regional forum 00:48:31.464 --> 00:48:33.794 that promotes the use of renewable energy. 00:48:33.874 --> 00:48:38.204 This is a framework which includes all financial institutions, 00:48:38.224 --> 00:48:41.214 all universities, which present in the wards, 00:48:41.314 --> 00:48:48.184 agricultural cooperative which we actually have in Setagaya-ku 00:48:48.344 --> 00:48:52.424 and various co-ops as well. 00:48:52.504 --> 00:48:57.264 On one hand, there are people 00:48:57.404 --> 00:49:00.814 who want to do the business of renewable energy 00:49:00.834 --> 00:49:04.144 which might be mainly solar PV panels and solar thermal panels in Setagaya-ku 00:49:04.224 --> 00:49:06.884 or might be in the form of bulk purchase to spread it. 00:49:06.944 --> 00:49:10.854 On the other hand, we would like to support and cheer up the disaster areas 00:49:10.984 --> 00:49:19.434 such as Akita Prefecture or Nagano Prefecture, for example, 00:49:19.624 --> 00:49:22.744 who are trying to launch renewable energy power business 00:49:22.784 --> 00:49:25.264 as employment measures as well, 00:49:25.304 --> 00:49:28.684 by purchasing their electricity selectively. 00:49:28.804 --> 00:49:34.224 I think these two are our mainstream at the moment. 00:49:34.304 --> 00:49:39.124 The local government should rather provide the precise information 00:49:39.154 --> 00:49:42.394 than become a business principal. 00:49:42.424 --> 00:49:46.724 I think information is very important at this moment 00:49:46.754 --> 00:49:48.904 because it's not obvious yet actual and 00:49:48.974 --> 00:49:51.024 particularly detailed condition of feed-in tariffs. 00:49:51.164 --> 00:49:54.374 We think from the government's perspective that we will support 00:49:54.484 --> 00:49:58.234 the spread of renewable energy as a whole 00:49:58.324 --> 00:50:05.804 while holding forums or symposiums frequently 00:50:06.014 --> 00:50:14.504 which citizens can access freely. 00:50:16.804 --> 00:50:18.804 Thank you. 00:50:18.994 --> 00:50:25.724 I think only the cases of small municipalities are often discussed 00:50:25.804 --> 00:50:29.554 at a symposium like this to promote renewable energy. 00:50:29.644 --> 00:50:32.134 I believe that you have been really motivated to hear Søren 00:50:32.154 --> 00:50:33.714 in the first session. 00:50:33.814 --> 00:50:36.304 I think you might not be able to find what to do 00:50:36.334 --> 00:50:38.144 when you come home in Tokyo. 00:50:38.174 --> 00:50:40.124 I think that was often the case up to now. 00:50:40.144 --> 00:50:45.264 I think a lot of things are visible recently what you can do 00:50:45.294 --> 00:50:47.594 even you live in urban areas as Mayor Hosaka mentioned. 00:50:47.634 --> 00:50:50.334 He said they propose those things playing a modest role 00:50:50.344 --> 00:50:52.484 behind the scene in a decent manner 00:50:52.574 --> 00:50:57.024 rather than playing the lead, I think. Thank you. 00:50:57.084 --> 00:50:59.084 Then, Ms Tamiya, please. 00:50:59.584 --> 00:51:02.864 We will talk a very fresh story. 00:51:02.944 --> 00:51:08.784 We began learning the concept of "Community Power" in Akita 00:51:08.864 --> 00:51:13.014 receiving lectures by people from ISEP. 00:51:13.044 --> 00:51:22.894 We learned that benefit of projects of renewable energy would rather go 00:51:22.914 --> 00:51:25.424 to companies of large capital 00:51:25.524 --> 00:51:27.844 headquartered in Tokyo or overseas than fall in the local communities 00:51:27.934 --> 00:51:31.294 without this concept of community power even if there is potential much. 00:51:31.324 --> 00:51:34.144 We noticed that large companies withdraw if economy worsens 00:51:34.224 --> 00:51:36.154 and we loose employment even we have attracted them. 00:51:36.284 --> 00:51:38.274 We began noticing that the same thing would happen 00:51:38.354 --> 00:51:40.794 without implementing the concept of "Community Power" 00:51:40.884 --> 00:51:42.474 and that we need local ownership. 00:51:42.564 --> 00:51:46.274 This kind of discussion begins to come out especially on wind power 00:51:46.344 --> 00:51:52.314 but the leaders of the discussion are often much larger senior 00:51:52.344 --> 00:51:55.224 perhaps because the whole communit is aging. 00:51:55.304 --> 00:52:00.474 Assuming that the average age of the team are the age of 60's now, 00:52:00.544 --> 00:52:05.384 I consider that the main leaders would be in their 70's 00:52:05.634 --> 00:52:10.094 when the business starts successfully in something like ten years time. 00:52:10.174 --> 00:52:16.704 I have a sense of crisis that the 30's would have to work 00:52:16.974 --> 00:52:20.734 when I imagine the year 2050. 00:52:20.834 --> 00:52:24.484 A lot of people have been increasingly coming back strangely in sync 00:52:24.514 --> 00:52:26.954 whom I can share this sense of crisis with. 00:52:26.974 --> 00:52:29.694 They don't know much about renewable energy first 00:52:29.724 --> 00:52:32.074 but I find their motivation is high 00:52:32.104 --> 00:52:35.984 when we have the study session or town planning. 00:52:36.074 --> 00:52:38.664 I do not know what can be done right now 00:52:38.694 --> 00:52:41.804 but I am trying to involve people younger than me as many as possible 00:52:41.854 --> 00:52:48.724 while learning and sharing information with them. 00:52:48.894 --> 00:52:52.484 I have a big concern that the form of community power 00:52:52.554 --> 00:52:55.774 would be completely different and that it would be determined 00:52:55.794 --> 00:53:00.024 by the direction in which the leaders choose. 00:53:00.044 --> 00:53:03.524 I am very grateful to receive this opportunity like this, 00:53:03.554 --> 00:53:07.444 but the best and newest models in the world 00:53:07.444 --> 00:53:11.374 would not perhaps work and even could not to be imitated as they are. 00:53:11.404 --> 00:53:20.224 So there must be a lot of discussions and twists and turns, 00:53:20.214 --> 00:53:24.644 and even conflicts, which I really don't want to call them so. 00:53:24.684 --> 00:53:27.884 I think we have to take our time 00:53:27.904 --> 00:53:33.174 because there are various people with various opinions. 00:53:33.574 --> 00:53:36.204 Thank you very much. 00:53:36.464 --> 00:53:44.594 I would like Stefan to introduce good examples overseas 00:53:44.764 --> 00:53:52.164 of public participation regardless of the size of municipalities. 00:57:04.979 --> 00:57:10.281 I think I want to talk about human resources and the network as second question. 00:57:10.387 --> 00:57:17.806 Those who panel here might be in front and speak out in various places. 00:57:18.085 --> 00:57:23.784 Among their supporters there might be someone whom they found unexpectedly important 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:28.646 or whose help had been very grateful. 00:57:28.754 --> 00:57:35.491 I would like them to talk about these people without mentioning their personal names. 00:57:35.580 --> 00:57:43.058 I think the business entity doing 100% and the local government are the two important actors, of course. 00:57:43.128 --> 00:57:50.636 Who comes up in addition? This might be the key people in the administration of course. 00:57:50.717 --> 00:57:55.563 I think it can be organized into two. 00:57:55.604 --> 00:58:02.222 First, this might be a very local story. 00:58:02.411 --> 00:58:09.536 When I tried to launch the business with the assistance of many people, I remember, 00:58:09.706 --> 00:58:14.591 there were much more people of the opposition including the municipality than those in favor of it. 00:58:14.913 --> 00:58:19.465 I was advised to quit it and was informed that it would be impossible. 00:58:19.725 --> 00:58:36.073 But there were several people of the region or among my drinking buddy entirely unrelated to this business, 00:58:36.479 --> 00:58:43.201 who kindly told me that they would support me if I did it. 00:58:43.316 --> 00:58:51.221 I think these words of them boosted my feelings. 00:58:51.520 --> 00:59:00.937 Secondly, it is natural that people of the business region work hard when you start it 00:59:01.122 --> 00:59:06.821 but Is there anybody who has a wealth of knowledge of renewable energy in the city of 100,000 people? 00:59:06.916 --> 00:59:13.048 Or is anyone with such knowledge of legal issues when you try to raise the investment or civil investment? 00:59:13.122 --> 00:59:15.818 I am afraid there aren't unfortunately. 00:59:15.933 --> 00:59:22.838 A person with such knowledge is or should be always, but in Japan. 00:59:22.915 --> 00:59:27.791 I have got the cooperation of those people to be allowed to use their knowledge. 00:59:27.995 --> 00:59:33.831 I think that these two above were very important 00:59:33.930 --> 00:59:41.609 and they might be the big factors that I might be able to stand in front. 00:59:42.109 --> 00:59:47.628 Thank you. When speaking about town revitalization, it is often said that there must be 'Three Actors'. 00:59:47.811 --> 00:59:52.553 Outsiders, Young People and a Fool. I am afraid that Mr. Hara might be a Fool in this context. 00:59:52.657 --> 00:59:55.597 He would do it despite the opposite of all, it is a Fool. 00:59:55.707 --> 00:59:58.440 There must be also those who support from outside like us, Outsiders. 00:59:58.565 --> 01:00:01.749 I think that people with young heart in the region would also satisfy the condition of young people above, 01:00:01.836 --> 01:00:05.456 actually people are helping him in his office now. 01:00:05.513 --> 01:00:11.368 This can be applied to renewable energy projects as to town revitalization. I thought it to hear him. 01:00:11.444 --> 01:00:12.932 Professor Maruyama, please. 01:00:13.750 --> 01:00:19.268 What I am going to tell you overlaps with the previous story. 01:00:19.419 --> 01:00:30.643 People who are expected to play supporting roles of business are very important, I think, 01:00:30.774 --> 01:00:36.616 and they often play the lead in Japan rather than supporting roles. 01:00:36.784 --> 01:00:40.982 I think it is one of the circumstances that makes the situation has become so difficult. 01:00:40.976 --> 01:00:48.016 It might be the case in biomass or small hydro or wind power, 01:00:48.145 --> 01:00:51.431 it is often well done up to construction phase, 01:00:51.572 --> 01:00:55.121 but not in the following phase, especiall the maintenance and business decision making 01:00:55.269 --> 01:01:07.061 as well as managing business risks are often surprisingly neglected. 01:01:07.205 --> 01:01:12.622 I think those things are important. 01:01:12.769 --> 01:01:18.032 Then I will talk about network and human resources. 01:01:18.227 --> 01:01:24.046 Mr. Hara has been doing business locally where he lives in his native town. 01:01:24.152 --> 01:01:28.878 I was born in Tokyo and happened to live in Aomori City at the time I stated the project. 01:01:29.040 --> 01:01:37.047 The project was in a place called Ajigasawa while I lived in Aomori City away from the site. 01:01:37.236 --> 01:01:44.573 Human resources in the regional core city like the prefectural capital are important, 01:01:44.666 --> 01:01:54.741 and those networks are being maintained well also in Aomori Prefecture like in Akita Prefecture, I think. 01:01:54.815 --> 01:02:02.985 I think it is applicable without exception to all areas that there surely exists such people 01:02:03.102 --> 01:02:13.130 who can work for the region focusing on the future of the region rather than self-interest. 01:02:13.384 --> 01:02:22.776 Probably it is important to support them creating mechanisms 01:02:22.991 --> 01:02:27.534 or in terms of practical business matters. 01:02:27.726 --> 01:02:37.255 I think the roles of citizens living in the prefectural capital or universities they are considerably important. 01:02:37.897 --> 01:02:42.538 They are described as local public human resources recently. 01:02:42.756 --> 01:02:46.545 There are people who can still help in the local community. 01:02:46.539 --> 01:02:49.569 Mr. Suzuki of Hokkaido mentioned earlier in the first session 01:02:49.978 --> 01:02:52.680 that you should do it anyway, 01:02:52.817 --> 01:02:55.558 but those people are surely necessary in business perspective 01:02:55.660 --> 01:02:57.882 even if there are the one who dares to do it. 01:02:57.989 --> 01:03:00.961 It is desirable this can be done in the region. 01:03:01.394 --> 01:03:04.184 Next, Mayor Hosaka, please. 01:03:04.379 --> 01:03:09.334 I think you are going to start now, so I would like you to comment 01:03:09.382 --> 01:03:13.941 also on the type of human resources you are seeking or on the kind of people you want to find. 01:03:14.138 --> 01:03:20.722 It is not yet obvious that the Japanese society is either changed at a first glance 01:03:20.804 --> 01:03:24.531 after the nuclear accident and the earthquake of March 11 01:03:24.652 --> 01:03:29.994 but I think it is because the next thing has not come in the clear form. 01:03:30.096 --> 01:03:34.124 I feel the sign of change from the ground up. 01:03:34.273 --> 01:03:42.249 because attention to the regional forum of renewable energy I mentioned earlier is very high. 01:03:42.434 --> 01:03:51.759 Since I have been active as a politician close to NPOs or civic movements, 01:03:51.993 --> 01:03:59.080 I think that the achievements of people who have come to open up 01:03:59.210 --> 01:04:04.627 in tough conditions in NPOs or civic movements are quite large. 01:04:04.891 --> 01:04:10.940 Among 880,000 residents of Setagaya-ku, there are several kind of people. 01:04:11.134 --> 01:04:17.610 In the economic community of the district, for example, 01:04:17.842 --> 01:04:22.723 those whose ancestors had actually lived in Setagaya in the Edo era 01:04:22.931 --> 01:04:30.304 are influential men representing economic organizations or agricultural cooperatives. 01:04:30.463 --> 01:04:39.388 In that sense, there are influential people in the old region of Setagaya. 01:04:39.459 --> 01:04:43.277 Interest to renewable energy is high even among those people. 01:04:43.333 --> 01:04:46.677 Compared with those mentioned above, 01:04:46.986 --> 01:04:52.944 there are new business entities such as co-op, NPOs or citizen businesses, 01:04:53.009 --> 01:04:57.903 while some of them lives in Setagaya-ku for thirty or forty years 01:04:58.094 --> 01:05:01.659 even they are said to be new, 01:05:01.863 --> 01:05:13.415 each of these two are doing business in different shapes sharing the same goal or cooperating each other. 01:05:13.721 --> 01:05:24.213 As human resources, those who can surely talk to the people of different positions 01:05:24.458 --> 01:05:29.684 not having someone monopolize the information 01:05:29.888 --> 01:05:34.894 but providing information fairly are very important. 01:05:35.071 --> 01:05:43.088 From the viewpoint of government, in order to provide information impartially 01:05:43.201 --> 01:05:47.797 to those of citizen business or of pure business, 01:05:47.891 --> 01:05:57.732 government could by no means provide exclusive information to a certain company. 01:05:57.956 --> 01:06:01.913 I think this is a huge opportunity regarding the market size. 01:06:01.979 --> 01:06:04.905 In that sense those who can connect government 01:06:05.038 --> 01:06:10.293 with the business entities and can properly communicate 01:06:10.397 --> 01:06:14.386 with people of different social position are fairly important. 01:06:14.512 --> 01:06:18.144 Perhaps one of the reasons why Mr. Hara could have done the business until today 01:06:18.345 --> 01:06:21.390 is the fact that he lives in Iida City, 01:06:21.508 --> 01:06:26.646 There are a lot of people who say good things waving the flag and do not process practical matters. 01:06:26.826 --> 01:06:36.093 If there are some who could do both of them and do not seek self-interest, 01:06:36.284 --> 01:06:42.736 our society might change drastically. 01:06:42.822 --> 01:06:46.600 Thank you. Mentioned in the first session when talking how to spread renewables, 01:06:46.734 --> 01:06:49.524 there are opinion leaders even among this audience. 01:06:49.602 --> 01:06:53.784 There must be about five opinion leaders among a hundred people today. Søren Hermansen said so. 01:06:53.918 --> 01:06:59.601 I think that it is also important to find such people regardless of the scale, if it is small or big. 01:06:59.770 --> 01:07:03.303 And he mentioned public mind. 01:07:03.492 --> 01:07:09.313 Our director, Mr. Iida writes recently observing Mr. Hara about three requirements of the leader. 01:07:09.427 --> 01:07:12.658 First comes the public mind, not to seek self-interest, 01:07:12.709 --> 01:07:16.507 next comes a certain proper sense of business 01:07:16.798 --> 01:07:20.389 and third comes the confidence earned in the region. 01:07:20.670 --> 01:07:31.399 I think these are also important, how to find it. We talk while drinking with something in mind. 01:07:31.495 --> 01:07:34.678 I think we have it spread through briefings in various forms. Then Ms Tamiya, please. 01:07:34.770 --> 01:07:42.050 You talk about what people you want or you can recruit through Ustream. 01:07:43.840 --> 01:08:01.172 I want help from outside among the three which are trust, business sense and public mind is business sense. 01:08:01.462 --> 01:08:07.890 It is a practical matter. But I guess a practical matter 01:08:08.125 --> 01:08:15.202 can supplement in the business base, so it in fact does not come first. 01:08:15.631 --> 01:08:28.486 I think that I want someone who could run with us regardless from which region he or she is. 01:08:28.672 --> 01:08:36.948 We can be connected a lot through social networks and it is desirable to spread such a circle, I think. 01:08:37.343 --> 01:08:49.542 There was a figure of followers behind their leader shown earlier. 01:08:49.659 --> 01:08:57.909 One of the reasons I was invited here, I believe, was that there were greater leaders in the region. 01:08:58.059 --> 01:09:09.940 They have been continuously appealing the potential of renewable energies since before 311. 01:09:10.233 --> 01:09:19.665 There are three citizen windmills even in Akita Prefecture and they are said to be increasing. 01:09:19.838 --> 01:09:28.495 There are those who have been doing such things by very small number of people. 01:09:28.670 --> 01:09:34.898 I have been frequently consulting them or talking with them about various dreams such as 01:09:34.983 --> 01:09:43.488 building at least one 100% citizen invested windmill even in Akita City since about two years before 01:09:43.573 --> 01:09:51.903 The fact I can follow them as their followers along with other younger people, I owe it to them much. 01:09:52.153 --> 01:09:55.966 I believe such people are important. 01:09:56.168 --> 01:10:04.319 I am running a seminar with a help from young people voluntarily who say it is very interesting. 01:10:04.578 --> 01:10:10.088 They are much interested in being connected with the world with the concept of "Community Power" 01:10:10.175 --> 01:10:15.854 and they find so-called frontier of knowledge. There are people who are frustrated with daily routine work 01:10:16.056 --> 01:10:22.307 and are unhappy with their daily life in Akita and have an intention to go out if they had a chance. 01:10:22.554 --> 01:10:29.647 They come and help us. I find they are very much helpful. 01:10:30.375 --> 01:10:32.375 Thank you. 01:10:32.382 --> 01:10:38.937 There is a phrase "Think Globally, Act Locally". 01:10:39.128 --> 01:10:43.930 On the other hand Søren says "Think Locally, Act Locally" and I think they are all linked. 01:10:44.430 --> 01:10:51.625 We have about twenty minutes remaining, so we would like to talk about mechanisms. 01:10:51.945 --> 01:10:57.592 Besides the business risks which you have to take by yourselves, 01:10:57.808 --> 01:11:01.119 there must have been, among the business activities until now, 01:11:01.218 --> 01:11:07.370 various problems or obstacles related to the rules of administrative rules both in local and national level. 01:11:07.615 --> 01:11:09.615 I think that they have the experience so far in overcoming those above. 01:11:09.942 --> 01:11:16.802 I think there must be a wall and there are many ways to overcome 01:11:17.038 --> 01:11:21.286 such as smashing from the front or taking a detour. 01:11:21.312 --> 01:11:24.402 In addition to these above, I would like to hear about such mechanisms which make things easier 01:11:24.493 --> 01:11:26.808 or about mechanisms without which things might be easier. 01:11:26.957 --> 01:11:32.633 We have heard much about the role of local governments. 01:11:32.784 --> 01:11:38.417 If you have something to add, we are happy to hear that. 01:11:38.650 --> 01:11:45.222 I would like to hear from Stefan after hearing from every panelist around. 01:11:45.568 --> 01:11:47.568 First we would like to have Mr. Hara. 01:11:49.961 --> 01:11:54.852 I think collaboration with the local government is absolutely necessary. 01:11:54.947 --> 01:11:59.996 In our case, for example, I think there must have been a lot of discussions in Iida City 01:12:00.089 --> 01:12:08.710 when the local government gives us the first permission 01:12:08.923 --> 01:12:14.861 to use roofs of public properties for the purpose outside. 01:12:15.083 --> 01:12:25.631 The government have permitted us the long-term outside purpose use for twenty years 01:12:25.772 --> 01:12:30.340 for the business plan of our fund. I think this was very large. 01:12:30.605 --> 01:12:35.230 Iida City did not spend any money actually but supported the citizen business 01:12:35.419 --> 01:12:41.808 by such a mechanism. That was pretty significant. 01:12:41.940 --> 01:12:47.533 We want to continue working on similar renewable energy projects, 01:12:47.675 --> 01:12:58.272 we have to extract business risks and take measures to them 01:12:58.415 --> 01:13:04.763 but there are known risks which cannot be measured in business base. 01:13:04.983 --> 01:13:08.587 It is also very important for the government 01:13:08.707 --> 01:13:12.367 how to make mechanisms to support the business on such risks. 01:13:12.592 --> 01:13:18.343 I would like Mayor Hosaka to comment on this. 01:13:18.482 --> 01:13:21.854 Speaking of the case of Iida City, we often mention this long-term permission 01:13:21.927 --> 01:13:24.038 for twenty years which is the first case. 01:13:24.063 --> 01:13:27.091 Do you have experienced the bureaucracy so-called vertical wall? 01:13:29.378 --> 01:13:33.427 We have a lot. It will be a concrete example. 01:13:33.558 --> 01:13:38.734 Seven years after installation of solar panels, 01:13:38.907 --> 01:13:48.133 unexpected re-roofing became necessary which was not originally planned. 01:13:48.167 --> 01:13:54.703 We had an agreement to cope with these things like re-roofing 01:13:54.829 --> 01:14:00.092 including prior discussions. But that has often not been shared within the municipality. 01:14:00.369 --> 01:14:07.915 The department in charge of the building and technical department such as construction department 01:14:07.996 --> 01:14:19.831 arbitrarily discussed and informed us right before removing panels. 01:14:20.038 --> 01:14:27.350 The new roofing they planned made re-installing of solar panels impossible. 01:14:27.566 --> 01:14:32.369 We talk with the government of Iida City to share such information. 01:14:32.463 --> 01:14:34.869 Thank you. Next, Professor Maruyama please 01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:41.189 The most important rule, I think, the government have to follow, 01:14:41.384 --> 01:14:45.919 is that it will not do its own energy business. 01:14:45.944 --> 01:14:52.839 With respect to the business like this, 01:14:53.023 --> 01:15:00.781 a lot of know-how on the local natural conditions should be accumulated. 01:15:00.963 --> 01:15:06.515 This is not only technically but also socially. 01:15:06.730 --> 01:15:14.969 It should not do it because officials in charge are reassigned too often. 01:15:15.015 --> 01:15:25.981 Mechanisms to encourage competition to promote socially good business widely is another point. 01:15:26.053 --> 01:15:31.719 Regarding wind power, impact on the environment, for example, 01:15:31.812 --> 01:15:36.632 can be reduced as close to zero as possible if you spend time and money infinitely. 01:15:36.673 --> 01:15:41.509 On the other hand, wind power business is no longer viable as a business if you spend time and money infinitely. 01:15:41.622 --> 01:15:44.726 There exists a mechanism at the moment 01:15:44.784 --> 01:15:49.150 that the business would become profitable if you ease up environmental measures. 01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:55.745 It is important to make mechanisms such that making agreement carefully and investigating carefully 01:15:55.820 --> 01:16:00.047 make the business more profitable. 01:16:00.188 --> 01:16:09.296 For example in Denmark, they ranks each area based on the data present in public. 01:16:09.533 --> 01:16:13.986 The area of a certain rank where the assessment is unnecessary 01:16:14.163 --> 01:16:21.694 or that of another rank where one can venture but might be opposed. 01:16:21.892 --> 01:16:27.091 A decent business entity selects the area of less impact. 01:16:27.175 --> 01:16:33.629 It is very important to implement a mechanism to promote good business. 01:16:33.773 --> 01:16:39.480 I guess it is also important to support a good energy from the market side such that, for example, 01:16:39.702 --> 01:16:55.570 Setagaya-ku won't buy even the renewable energy from the business entity who ignore the region. 01:16:55.729 --> 01:17:03.739 In a certain sense Japan has accumulated the experiences of organic farming or thereabouts 01:17:03.850 --> 01:17:08.442 and those can be applied quite a lot actually to renewable energies. 01:17:08.578 --> 01:17:11.551 Thank you. The local government rather support 01:17:11.702 --> 01:17:15.413 from behind by providing information, for example, than do their own business. 01:17:15.636 --> 01:17:19.817 And we can support by selecting the good one. 01:17:19.817 --> 01:17:22.408 Mayor Hosaka, please. 01:17:22.771 --> 01:17:30.523 How disastrous results the local government had brought so far by doing their own businesses, 01:17:30.628 --> 01:17:35.881 I often heard it from Mr. Iida. 01:17:36.112 --> 01:17:41.158 Subsidy of 100,000 yen for installing one solar panel unit 01:17:41.354 --> 01:17:45.484 was actually abolished from this year in Setagaya-ku. 01:17:45.716 --> 01:17:55.913 Some people might think that we take one step backwards from viewpoint of budget. 01:17:56.270 --> 01:18:08.860 As I said earlier, we will try not to loose trust by always providing accurate and timely information 01:18:08.953 --> 01:18:21.085 and by holding regional forums of renewable energy to share such information and by continuing these above. 01:18:21.266 --> 01:18:31.807 There will be various deployments quite probably after this coming summer 01:18:31.984 --> 01:18:36.124 such as specialty shops of solar panels advertising loudly opened by various companies 01:18:36.326 --> 01:18:39.081 who think the opportunities are coming. 01:18:39.045 --> 01:18:45.575 Some people say they don't know at all how to determine when and where to buy. 01:18:45.740 --> 01:18:52.356 There are some places like a consumer information center in Setagaya-ku. 01:18:52.427 --> 01:19:00.383 But for now, they don't have such knowledge to be able to provide fair information 01:19:00.543 --> 01:19:03.894 such as what to see to know good and bad points. 01:19:03.998 --> 01:19:08.175 We have to train them so that they could point out the check point 01:19:08.256 --> 01:19:12.722 or the problem on the time of purchase from consumers' perspective. 01:19:12.845 --> 01:19:18.404 From now on we should offer rather space to ambitious people or businesses than subsidies. 01:19:18.527 --> 01:19:34.610 We should also offer space to venture companies of energy conservation even it is not of renewable energy. 01:19:34.932 --> 01:19:41.554 Space is crucial for companies in the launch phase, especially in the location like Setagaya-ku. 01:19:41.705 --> 01:19:49.808 I think if they could do this as an industrial policy and for the utilization of vacant store or vacant house. 01:19:49.935 --> 01:19:54.901 There is already a certain activity called Town Planning Trust Fund 01:19:55.112 --> 01:20:01.813 and this raises funds for other ambitious businesses or citizens. 01:20:01.872 --> 01:20:12.396 I think we can consider a fund to support such citizen businesses in this field. 01:20:12.634 --> 01:20:20.855 The administratives mechanism to cover at the time of such disaster 01:20:20.988 --> 01:20:25.710 should be built-in in the stage like now. 01:20:25.859 --> 01:20:31.574 It is absolutely impossible to cover only a certain field when something disastrous has happened. 01:20:31.704 --> 01:20:38.282 So we are happy to hear you from the field and we will have to find a way in various means. 01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:39.509 Thank you. 01:20:39.583 --> 01:20:43.281 Speaking of information, I am also a part-time lecturer at a university. 01:20:43.357 --> 01:20:47.919 I asked to students for ideas of mechanisms to promote renewable energy, 01:20:48.106 --> 01:20:53.246 and one of the ideas was a renewable energy electricity version of "Kakaku.com (a price comparison site)." 01:20:53.310 --> 01:20:55.670 It is still important to organize information. 01:20:55.688 --> 01:21:03.779 What mentioned at the end might become the renewable-energy-related town planning. 01:21:03.905 --> 01:21:08.424 It is very important because it could become the opportunity to remove the vertical wall. 01:21:08.577 --> 01:21:10.577 Lastly, Ms Tamiya, please. 01:21:11.506 --> 01:21:18.220 We don't have a direct relationship much with local governments yet. 01:21:18.395 --> 01:21:23.064 I think it might be a challenge in the future we have to accept. 01:21:23.315 --> 01:21:28.816 But I think municipalities which happen to have mayors like the mayor of Setagaya-ku 01:21:29.069 --> 01:21:38.691 who can lead the people in the area could make much progress. 01:21:38.912 --> 01:21:48.204 But there are many municipalities which don't have such leaders. 01:21:48.704 --> 01:21:55.283 I want to seek good ideas from a variety of people to approach the latter municipalities. 01:21:57.790 --> 01:22:04.598 I have spoken as Mayor of Setagaya-ku while ago but I forgot to say something. 01:22:04.658 --> 01:22:08.572 I believe there must be many municipalities throughout the country which are preparing something in this field 01:22:08.735 --> 01:22:14.603 and people of ISEP are supposed to know the best which municipalities are preparing what. 01:22:14.776 --> 01:22:21.196 Basic municipalities have to work together to exchange ideas 01:22:21.487 --> 01:22:27.406 from both power producers and consumer sides which are different. 01:22:27.478 --> 01:22:33.153 I think a so-called exchange forum could be fairly helpful. 01:22:35.318 --> 01:22:38.264 I think we take it as our homework. Thank you. 01:22:38.610 --> 01:22:43.748 I would like to hear from Stefan in response to the efforts we have heard until now. 01:22:43.950 --> 01:22:48.479 There are mechanisms which support renewable energy projects in the region, for example, 01:22:48.635 --> 01:22:55.597 a condition of investments in Denmark that investors must be from local municipalities. 01:22:55.744 --> 01:22:59.868 Could you comment on such mechanisms or a role of local governments 01:23:00.052 --> 01:23:04.015 to promote local renewable energy projects if any? 01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:48.649 Thank you. We have only five minutes remaining. 01:26:48.770 --> 01:26:52.828 So please alIow me to cancel the questions from the floor in this session. 01:26:52.942 --> 01:26:59.671 Lastly, we have been doing this session with the theme of "Ownership and Public Participation". 01:26:59.731 --> 01:27:03.583 I would like to hear someone who have something else to do from now on, 01:27:03.790 --> 01:27:10.426 or something in terms of public participation. Is there anyone to speak up? 01:27:10.604 --> 01:27:12.604 It is a future outlook. 01:27:12.756 --> 01:27:17.296 This might be a plan you want to do, or the next business or project. 01:27:17.588 --> 01:27:20.955 Is this too difficult all of a sudden? 01:27:21.125 --> 01:27:27.219 Do you have anything, Mr. Hara? 01:27:27.687 --> 01:27:39.530 In this fiscal year, we have expanded so-called zero yen system a little beyond Iida City 01:27:39.702 --> 01:27:44.840 and I hope we could promote this across the region of south Shinshu. 01:27:45.112 --> 01:27:50.264 Until now in case with subsidies or using so-called zero yen systems with no subsidies, 01:27:50.485 --> 01:27:53.667 it has been limited to individual housing. 01:27:53.877 --> 01:27:58.375 After this coming July when feed-in tariffs begins, 01:27:58.607 --> 01:28:08.231 we are going to try so-called distributed megawatts system 01:28:08.528 --> 01:28:18.343 which several sites collectively generate megawatts in cooperation with the leading companies of the region. 01:28:18.580 --> 01:28:26.257 That is the goal at the moment. 01:28:33.231 --> 01:28:46.860 At the start of feed-in tariffs finally, I think we will try a lot of things 01:28:47.003 --> 01:28:54.154 to increase momentum taking advantage of the timing at least in Setagaya-ku. 01:28:54.343 --> 01:28:59.138 It includes Symposiums held by the private sector. 01:28:59.347 --> 01:29:06.490 Of course, what we are talking here is quite hard for general residents to grasp precisely. 01:29:06.617 --> 01:29:10.830 The most obvious point is the fact that the municipal office is connected 01:29:11.265 --> 01:29:14.800 to the electricity company other than Tokyo Electric Power Company. 01:29:15.027 --> 01:29:18.973 This made people think whether they might be able to do the same. 01:29:19.097 --> 01:29:24.832 We are just asking the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry 01:29:25.178 --> 01:29:30.905 to let us do the test model case of joint purchasing of renewable energy 01:29:30.972 --> 01:29:37.019 which might be just an experimental project ahead of schedule. 01:29:37.302 --> 01:29:44.174 If it becomes visible that general households elaborate how to choose electricity 01:29:44.373 --> 01:29:51.494 and eventually choose green power, it would spreads out fast. 01:29:51.848 --> 01:29:57.470 We will do our best because I think that wall is also a little thick. 01:30:00.242 --> 01:30:12.319 In this session we have received feedback from a variety of positions in a variety of information about cases. 01:30:12.425 --> 01:30:15.600 On the figure shown at the beginning of the session, there are people like Mr. Hara and Professor Maruyama 01:30:15.806 --> 01:30:18.806 who dedicate a hundred percent. 01:30:18.943 --> 01:30:24.007 And there are also those who support from behind and there were a wide variety of positions, 01:30:24.101 --> 01:30:28.701 of various professions in a variety of relationships. 01:30:28.756 --> 01:30:32.520 It is possible not because they are in smaller municipalities. 01:30:32.589 --> 01:30:35.041 They also have difficulties to some extent 01:30:35.156 --> 01:30:38.810 and have been done amazingly. On the other hand, 01:30:38.938 --> 01:30:44.114 it does not mean that there is nothing we can do because we live in the city. 01:30:44.274 --> 01:30:48.948 I think that we could have shown the fact that we have a variety of choice using various information 01:30:49.122 --> 01:30:53.481 and that we can participate in various proportion of renewable energy projects in this regard. 01:30:53.707 --> 01:31:00.715 Stefan has demonstrated the global trend, then that "Ownership and Public Participation" 01:31:00.877 --> 01:31:08.846 affect much not only the flow of money but also that of feeling, 01:31:09.200 --> 01:31:14.995 and that the community is very important for the project of renewable energy. 01:31:15.280 --> 01:31:22.801 I would like to end this session now. I hope the applause for the participants, please.