Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling
-
0:00 - 0:02For years Carter hesitated to
compose a work, a concerto, -
0:02 - 0:05for flute because he believed the flute
-
0:05 - 0:12could not 'bring out the sharp attacks'
he favoured in his compositions. -
0:12 - 0:17Now, he's written a flute concerto after all.
-
0:17 - 0:20Emmanuel Pahud gave the
work its world premiere -
0:20 - 0:22performance in September 2008
-
0:22 - 0:25at the Jerusalem Chamber Music Festival.
-
0:25 - 0:29Emmanuel Pahud, what kind
of a work did Carter -
0:29 - 0:30compose for you?
-
0:30 - 0:40Actually, when one is confronted
with a composition that in 13 minutes -
0:40 - 0:44summarizes 100 years
-
0:44 - 0:47plus perspectives looking
back as well as forwards, -
0:47 - 0:50from the point of view of Elliott Carter.
-
0:50 - 0:55It is a daunting task one is faced with
-
0:55 - 1:00and looking at such music scores
opens incredible worlds. -
1:00 - 1:10It's unbelievable how much one can define
as a performer while sitting at a desk -
1:10 - 1:12not just by trying out the piece
-
1:12 - 1:14on one's instrument and
reading the score -
1:14 - 1:18but far more in the
dialogue, the connection, -
1:18 - 1:21between the solo instrument
and the orchestra -
1:21 - 1:24what worlds get opened up there.
-
1:24 - 1:29And in this concerto, you recognize
right at the start -
1:29 - 1:32that the flute suddenly fills the room
-
1:32 - 1:40with an entire cloud of
sounds, like sequins in the air. -
1:40 - 1:42These sounds are then
repeated by the orchestra -
1:43 - 1:46and alternately by different
groups of instruments -
1:46 - 1:49that react to each other and I too am
-
1:49 - 1:52involved at this point and
occasionally play sounds -
1:52 - 1:58that, in contrast to the sounds
being played by other instruments -
1:58 - 2:00are picked up and
emphasized by the orchestra. -
2:00 - 2:03That is, the notes played
by the solo instrument, -
2:03 - 2:05the flute, are then
sustained by the orchestra -
2:05 - 2:10as a kind of sound relief
and from these sounds a harmony builds -
2:10 - 2:13and over and above this harmony,
a solo flute voice develops -
2:13 - 2:17which leads to a wonderful Cantilena
in the second part of the piece. -
2:17 - 2:23The piece is called a concerto
for flute and orchestra, -
2:24 - 2:27but I would prefer to
describe it as a nocturne -
2:27 - 2:29although it has the form of a concerto.
-
2:29 - 2:32It's one long piece of music
that's clearly divided -
2:32 - 2:35structurally into four
different movements. -
2:35 - 2:39Just as with a symphony,
with the first part -
2:39 - 2:41and then a middle, slower part,
-
2:41 - 2:44that you could say is more of a song
-
2:44 - 2:47then a third part where
the cadence is free -
2:47 - 2:50and the flute starts out alone
-
2:50 - 2:54and it is joined by other instruments,
mainly the drum group -
2:54 - 3:00and then in the end a finale marked
by a great deal of virtuosity -
3:00 - 3:02not only from the flute
-
3:02 - 3:05but also from the violins
and the other instruments of the orchestra. -
3:06 - 3:08What Elliott Carter borrowed
from Stravinsky -
3:09 - 3:14was his decades-long intensive
preoccupation with rhythm. -
3:15 - 3:17He not only wrote essays
on the subject but -
3:17 - 3:20most of his work reflects
this focus on rhythm. -
3:20 - 3:23What is it like in the Flute Concerto?
-
3:23 - 3:26It isn't nearly so difficult from
the point of view of rhythm -
3:26 - 3:27as in his earlier works
-
3:28 - 3:34works from the 1970s and 80s when
he's already well over 70 years of age. -
3:36 - 3:38The works are marked
by an enormous level of complexity -
3:38 - 3:42but with age he seems to have
acquired a certain wisdom -
3:43 - 3:49inasmuch as he played with
complex rhythms a lot -
3:50 - 3:54where, for example a duet
for flute and clarinet, -
3:54 - 3:57called 'Esprit Rude, Esprit Doux'
-
3:58 - 4:03meaning 'Rough Spirit, Kind Spirit'
-
4:04 - 4:09this piece was composed for
Pierre Boulez sixtieth birthday. -
4:10 - 4:12In this piece there are
just the two instruments -
4:13 - 4:14but they may never play together.
-
4:15 - 4:16The piece is very very fast,
-
4:16 - 4:20but when the clarinet plays
five notes in a row -
4:20 - 4:21then the flute only plays four... or six and
-
4:22 - 4:23the other way around as
well, the entire time -
4:24 - 4:28and during a performance
if you hear two sounds -
4:28 - 4:32played together then the
performance has failed. -
4:32 - 4:36It's entirely different than playing Mozart
-
4:36 - 4:38or Beethoven, where
you hear immediately -
4:38 - 4:39that a mistake has been
made when it's not together. -
4:39 - 4:44In this case it's just the opposite,
which offers an interesting perspective -
4:45 - 4:48but it leads to the oddity that
when a sound finally comes together -
4:49 - 4:53the audience or the
musicians playing think -
4:53 - 4:56'finally' it's alright after all
-
4:57 - 4:59but no, it's actually wrong.
-
5:00 - 5:08None of that in the Flute Concerto
nor in the Piano Concerto, the Dialogues. -
5:11 - 5:15It's well defined who has the lead role,
the piano or the flute, -
5:15 - 5:19and the orchestra is in constant dialogue,
-
5:19 - 5:24that is, we react to one
another using the same material. -
5:25 - 5:29The rhythmic complexity is there during
the entire development of the piece. -
5:29 - 5:33It appears in many different forms.
-
5:33 - 5:36But Elliott Carter, unlike many other
composers of the younger generation, -
5:37 - 5:40completely rejects special effects.
-
5:40 - 5:45Because you can get a very
sweet tone from the flute -
5:45 - 5:47but also very ugly sounds.
-
5:48 - 5:55Or very windy or a very pizzicato-like sound
using the tongue to make a popping sound. -
5:56 - 5:59Or a clapping type of sound,
a percussive effect. -
5:59 - 6:02You have a lot of possibilities for effects
-
6:02 - 6:06that you can breathe or
blow into the instrument -
6:07 - 6:11that create other kinds noises,
not to mention sounds. -
6:11 - 6:15But there's none of that with Elliott Carter.
-
6:15 - 6:20He uses the flute... after
the opening of the concerto -
6:20 - 6:23which is quite scattered almost chaotic
-
6:24 - 6:28and this chaos slowly
organizes itself into a kind of -
6:28 - 6:31musical language for all
the performers on the stage. -
6:32 - 6:39And afterward there comes an almost
neo-impressionistic musical language, -
6:39 - 6:42which is very suited to the flute,
-
6:42 - 6:45especially since Debussy's
orchestral works -
6:45 - 6:47or Ravel's orchestral works
which have helped audiences -
6:48 - 6:50recognize the flute as
that type of instrument. -
6:50 - 6:52After the intermission, we will hear the
-
6:52 - 6:54Concerto for Piano and
Ensemble, 'Dialogues'. -
6:54 - 6:57It was premiered in
London in January 2004 -
6:57 - 7:01and this evening's soloist also
performed that world premiere. -
7:02 - 7:04You will be performing with the
orchestra, playing the flute, -
7:04 - 7:06and you are familiar with the work.
-
7:06 - 7:09The works are very similar in
length and have a similar -
7:09 - 7:11ensemble of instruments,
perhaps a little smaller. -
7:12 - 7:15What other similarities do
you see in these two pieces? -
7:16 - 7:20These pieces are.....
immediately recognizable -
7:20 - 7:23as works by the same composer...A.
-
7:24 - 7:27and B. - they are in the same musical style.
-
7:28 - 7:31Elliott Carter doesn't use any exotic
-
7:31 - 7:35instruments such as
drums, harp or keyboards -
7:35 - 7:39in the piano piece... because
he already has a wonderful -
7:39 - 7:42percussion instrument, the piano itself.
-
7:42 - 7:48After all, it is hammers that
make the sound on the strings, -
7:49 - 7:51and depending how softly
or strongly the notes -
7:51 - 7:54are struck an unbelievable
palette of sounds unfolds. -
7:54 - 8:01Sometimes it sounds like Chopin
and sometimes it sounds like Bernstein. -
8:01 - 8:06There's a Cantilena, but it
isn't heard so much in the -
8:06 - 8:12solo Flute voice but rather
from the English Horn -
8:12 - 8:14performed beautifully by Albrecht Mayer.
-
8:14 - 8:19And this Dialogue takes place
between -
8:19 - 8:22a solo instrument and the orchestra
-
8:23 - 8:26but naturally with other ingredients.
-
8:26 - 8:30Since a piano is not dealt
with as a solo instrument -
8:30 - 8:33in the same manner as a flute.
-
8:33 - 8:38As a result the entire cosmos,
the entire constellation is there -
8:38 - 8:41but is seen from an entirely
other point of view. -
8:42 - 8:50It is as if you were to see the sky
in Berlin at midnight and then -
8:50 - 8:55a few hours later from Sydney.
-
8:55 - 9:00You would see different constellations
that belong to the same cosmos, -
9:01 - 9:03but you would be looking at them
from another perspective. -
9:03 - 9:07In 1990 Elliott Carter composed a
Trio with the beautiful name -
9:08 - 9:10'Con Leggerezza Pensosa',
contemplative lightness. -
9:10 - 9:14Many of the works from
the last two decades -
9:14 - 9:19of Carter's oeuvre merit
similar-sounding names. -
9:19 - 9:23What about the two works that
we'll be hearing this evening? -
9:24 - 9:29Lightness and thoughtfulness...
but both together and linked -
9:29 - 9:36is an absolute key to
understanding these works -
9:36 - 9:41as well as to performing these works.
-
9:41 - 9:46There is a composer's note in the score
-
9:46 - 9:49'giocoso' meaning 'playful'.
-
9:49 - 9:53and there is another 'legerissimo' note
toward the end of the Flute Concerto. -
9:53 - 9:57These notes recur quite often in the works.
-
9:57 - 10:03as if to indicate a baroque
treatment, a light and -
10:03 - 10:05decorative way of playing the piece.
-
10:05 - 10:13It's an indicator of the playful way
the composer sees his work. -
10:13 - 10:18Not taken too seriously,
and not to be made too important. -
10:18 - 10:23It is naturally a sign of great maturity.
-
10:23 - 10:29and I will try, even with my
'relatively' advanced years -
10:29 - 10:33to adhere to the composer's notes.
-
10:33 - 10:36You played the world
premiere of these pieces -
10:36 - 10:39and now you're doing
their European premiere. -
10:39 - 10:44You premiered the Flute Concerto
of Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie in 2006. -
10:44 - 10:48Just two examples of your commitment
to contemporary classical music. -
10:48 - 10:51What is it that draws you
so much to this music? -
10:51 - 10:55The music of Johann
Sebastian Bach, of his sons, -
10:55 - 10:58from Mozart, Schubert and Beethoven
-
10:58 - 11:01was at one time very
new and revolutionary. -
11:01 - 11:04They were interested in new instruments.
-
11:04 - 11:07And it has always been the same.
-
11:08 - 11:10And it continues to be that way today.
-
11:11 - 11:15The difference is that the composers also
-
11:16 - 11:21performed their works on
the piano or violin, or viola -
11:22 - 11:26or improvising during
a concert performance -
11:26 - 11:29and then wrote out
their compositions. -
11:30 - 11:35The ease with which a Mozart, for example,
in just one night in Prague -
11:35 - 11:40composed his 'Don Giovanni' Overture
just shortly before the dress rehearsal -
11:41 - 11:45is something that is reflected in the
-
11:45 - 11:50hyperactivity of a
composer like Elliott Carter. -
11:51 - 11:54I believe if people had
complete freedom of choice -
11:54 - 11:56they would always take the works of
-
11:56 - 12:00Matthias Pintscher, Elliott Carter
or Pierre Boulez -
12:00 - 12:03or Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie
compose for example. -
12:04 - 12:07And I really hope that in 250 or 300 years
-
12:07 - 12:11people will think about their
works the way we think about -
12:11 - 12:14the works of Mozart or Bach.
-
12:14 - 12:20That what the composers want to
say with their works today -
12:20 - 12:24may be seen as visionary,
and can't be understood -
12:24 - 12:25without some explanation.
-
12:26 - 12:30But you do want a kind of guide.
-
12:32 - 12:36This language has become established
-
12:37 - 12:43and is fully integrated in the
musical language of the classical world -
12:43 - 12:49as the natural further development
of the musical language of Bach or Mozart -
12:50 - 12:56Schubert, Brahms, Mahler, Berg, Weber,
and today... Carter. -
12:57 - 12:59When you're playing a new score that
-
12:59 - 13:03no one else ever played before
you, since it is a world premiere, -
13:03 - 13:07is there any particular
difference to the manner -
13:07 - 13:11in which you prepare
compared with 'old' works? -
13:11 - 13:14Absolutely, when you discover a new work,
-
13:14 - 13:16it's really like going
somewhere you've never been. -
13:17 - 13:20You have no idea when the ground
might fall away beneath your feet, -
13:20 - 13:23or how the different performers
react to one another. -
13:23 - 13:25Is there any kind of a cushion
between the instruments? -
13:25 - 13:30You don't know if you'll get the feeling
of being attacked around the next corner. -
13:31 - 13:36You have to be careful, especially
on the lookout and respectful. -
13:36 - 13:38But once you've completely
worked your way -
13:38 - 13:40through the piece for the first time
-
13:40 - 13:44and you begin to review the piece
for the second time, -
13:44 - 13:51it's a little like going into a museum
and seeing a new work hanging there. -
13:51 - 13:54It was never hanging in that room
before and now it's there. -
13:54 - 13:57The room feels completely different
and you are initially irritated. -
13:57 - 14:00But then you look at the work a little more
closely and get used to the new work -
14:00 - 14:03and you notice the texture of
the work, how it's put together. -
14:03 - 14:09And taking a few steps back
you look at the work from different angles. -
14:09 - 14:13And you notice 'aha, there's this aspect
or that one...' this surface, this material. -
14:13 - 14:17And that's exactly how we approach
a new musical work. -
14:17 - 14:21And the analysis of the work
takes on a form, a structure of -
14:21 - 14:24one has to try to find the key
-
14:24 - 14:26to how the work is put together
it's like sentence structure -
14:26 - 14:29in order that it makes sense
-
14:29 - 14:32it's all words following one anther
that make sense in some way -
14:32 - 14:37and it's our job as performers
to try to understand the composition -
14:37 - 14:40preferably without a
phone call to the composer. -
14:40 - 14:42That's what I was about to ask,
-
14:42 - 14:46the advantage of working on
pieces from living composers -
14:46 - 14:50is naturally that you
can ask composers questions. -
14:50 - 14:53Does it help to talk with the composer?
-
14:53 - 15:02I don't like too many influences
when I'm preparing a new work. -
15:02 - 15:10When a composer has reacted
to a suggestion to create a piece, -
15:10 - 15:15or he approaches us himself
with a piece he's composed -
15:15 - 15:18that's already quite a step.
-
15:18 - 15:22But, then you have two
different types of work, -
15:22 - 15:25the creator, the composer
making his piece -
15:25 - 15:31and the performer who plays
the music or reanimates it, so to speak, -
15:31 - 15:35those are two very different
roles and I don't want -
15:35 - 15:40to have any limiting influence
on creativity of the composer. -
15:41 - 15:47I think the burning idea,
the cry that leads to the birth of the work, -
15:47 - 15:57is so very important for the whole world,
but for me as a musician -
15:57 - 16:00it's the only way I can move ahead.
-
16:00 - 16:04If I give a commission
for a work to be composed, -
16:04 - 16:08tailor-made for me, then
no one moves ahead. -
16:08 - 16:10It may be a personal 'tour-de-force' that
-
16:10 - 16:14shows off my talents but
it becomes self-serving, -
16:14 - 16:20and that isn't what musical
creation is supposed to be about. -
16:20 - 16:22My job is to serve the composition as best
-
16:22 - 16:26I can understand and
interpret it to the world. -
16:26 - 16:34So a composer needs to know that
as soon as he allows a work to be printed. -
16:34 - 16:39It belongs to the whole world and
everyone can play it the way they'd like. -
16:39 - 16:42And it's like a newborn that
begins to make its way -
16:42 - 16:46and master its own future.
- Title:
- Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling
- Description:
-
Emmanuel Pahud war der Solist bei der europäischen Erstaufführung von Elliott Carters Flötenkonzert im Juni 2009. Am Pult der Berliner Philharmoniker stand Daniel Barenboim. In diesem Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling erläutert der Flötist seine Beziehung zu diesem Konzert und zu Carters Musik insgesamt
- Video Language:
- German
- Duration:
- 16:46
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling | ||
drlucich edited English subtitles for Emmanuel Pahud (Solo Flöte) im Gespräch mit Lydia Rilling |