-
It's time to start now.
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Thank you for coming despite the busy schedule
and even in the morning on weekdays.
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My name is Shota Furuya, researcher at
Institute for Sustainable Energy Policies.
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I would serve as the chair of
the conference today, thank you.
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I would like to start Japan
Community Power Conference.
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The purpose of today's conference is to discuss
how we can make sustainable energy community
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through the dialogue between community
power pioneers and challengers.
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This conference is held at Miraikan Hall in National
Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation
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and organized by ISEP, Institute
for Sustainable Energy Policies,
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and co-organized by World Wind Energy Association,
Japan Renewable Energy Platform,
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Japan Renewable Energy Foundation and
JST Local Energy and Finance Research Group.
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Prior to the opening, let us give you a message
from the host of this conference,
-
by Tetsunari IIDA, Executive Director of
Institute for Sustainable Energy Policies.
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Good morning everyone.
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Thank you for coming to Japan
Community Power Conference today.
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A situation concerning
renewable energy is recognized
-
as the "4th Revolution" in
human history in the world today,
-
following agricultural revolution, industrial revolution, IT revolution,
-
the fourth revolution is thought
to be that of renewable energy.
-
It is becoming the center of the energy now.
-
Not only the center in the area of energy
but also in broad range of industries,
-
it has been growing in an extremely rapid manner.
-
The investment to renewable energy
was 260 billion U.S. dollar last year
-
and because of the recent fall of exchange rate
it is now approximately 20 trillion yen.
-
It was approximately 20 fold growth
in the past 10 years.
-
Installed capacity of wind power increased
by 43 million kW in one year last year
-
and has become cumulative 230 million kW
-
and will overtake that of nuclear power
of 370 million kW in the world
-
in three years at this pace
even it might be leveled off.
-
Solar power generation increased
by 23 million kW in the last year.
-
Solar power increased by 40 percent
compared to the previous year
-
while wind power increased by 20%.
-
Solar PV is still about 73 million kW
in the whole world
-
but the speed of price declines
have been accelerating
-
and the pace of expansion of the spread
is more than that of wind power.
-
So, solar PV will probably overtake
nuclear power in a few years
-
after wind power overtakes nuclear power.
-
In such situations in the midst
of an energy revolution
-
Japan being only like standing still
or rather stepping back away,
-
has lagged behind completely
from the circumstance of the world.
-
On 3.11 last year, one year ago,
Japan, who has lagged behind,
-
because of runaway policy that had been
completely a mistake to say clearly,
-
encountered the Tokyo Electric Power Company
Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident,
-
which is disastrous in global world history.
-
This accident itself has much to be done,
like solving the problems
-
of radioactive contamination,
of the decommission of reactor,
-
still much to be done retrospectively concerning
the electricity market and/or nuclear energy policy.
-
Only thing I found good in the wake of 3.11,
and it came out in the right direction,
-
is that we whole Japanese realized clearly
we do not have no other way
-
to go in the direction of renewable energy.
-
I think it is only the bright side of the situation.
-
Mr. Masayoshi Son had become interested
in the energy after 3.11 for the first time actually,
-
and tweeted that he will establish a new research institute
gathering 100 scientists of the world
-
and met me on the very following day
and in a few days later,
-
and we were in the direction of establishing
the foundation of renewable energy
-
and the inauguration was held
in August of last year.
-
Tomorrow and on the day after tomorrow,
an event commemorating one year after 3.11 will be held
-
by Japan Renewable Energy Foundation.
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This is the situation that has occurred like this.
-
Feed-in tariffs have been approved by the Cabinet
in the morning of day of 3.11 by accident at all
-
and in August of last year passed
the renewable energy promotion law
-
with the effort of the former Prime Minister Kan
exchanging his position with it.
-
The law will go into effect in July of this year
-
and the first committee was held
the the day before yesterday.
-
It is amazing that history is progressing
such that chance and necessity are folded together,
-
I think that it is in a situation now that
renewable energy revolution finally begins in Japan.
-
Besides the 4th Revolution in the larger sense,
-
energy revolution might be seen
from another viewpoint.
-
Along with transition of energy
from the exclusive top-down large-scale
-
centralized form mainly of nuclear or fossil fuel
-
to the bottom-up small-scaled distributed
community-autonomous networked form,
-
similar transformation of society is
happening at the same time, I think
-
I think it is the same as the Internet.
-
Such vision and direction are so clear,
-
so I think it has been questioned and
is very important now how it would be achieved.
-
It is not sufficient that the form
of energy would be changed
-
as a result of a large windfarm built by a large
company spending a large amount of money.
-
Because renewable energy is
small-scaled distributed
-
respecting lands, landscapes
and various resources of the region,
-
the concept of 'Community Power'
become very important.
-
In that sense, we have speakers
from domestic or from overseas today
-
who have practiced already
and who attempt to practice.
-
While repeating the dialogue among them
-
about how they have overcome problems or
about how they could not have overcome problems,
-
we could share their experiences
and could step forward
-
enforcing domestic and international networks.
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I hope this conference would
be such a place of learning.
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Both in the morning and in the afternoon,
we have three sessions today.
-
I would like to learn the concept of
'Community Power' with you all.
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Thank you.
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We want to go into the discussion of the first session
with the theme of 'Vision and Realization'.
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We have three session today. To begin with,
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we would like to have keynotes for 20 minutes
-
at the beginning of each session
by speakers from abroad
-
following this, we would like to have dialogs
beween those who have practiced domestically
-
and who are going to practice.
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The first speaker is from an island
in Denmark called Samsø.
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This island is populated by 4,000 and
has achieved a 100% renewable energy
-
over 10 years beginning in 1997.
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Mr. Søren Hermansen played a very important role
in the process of the achievement above.
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There is a research institution, or of that sort,
called Samsø Energy Academy
-
and he is the representative of it.
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I would like to introduce something a little bit.
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There is a story how they have
achieved 100% renewable energy
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and a picture book in english
which is titled 'Energy Island'.
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This very nice book was translated
and published in Japanese recently.
-
I think his presentation would be something
related to the content of this book.
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It would be a story of a community
containing the various lessons
-
or case studies which are very important.
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Please welcome Søren.
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Thank you very much, Søren.
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We would like to go into
the panel discussion now.
-
Please wait a little for
the replacement on the stage.
-
Would you like to exchange the impression
of the presentation with the people around you?
-
Panelists on the stage, please.
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We would like to go into the discussion.
-
At first, one information.
Miss Misaki Ashiki at the right end
-
was not well a bit and went to the hospital.
She might be here around eleven o'clock if possible.
-
I want to go into this session now.
-
In this session, we would like
to hear two of those,
-
Mr. Tohru Suzuki of Hokkaido Green Fund
and Mr. Yoichi Takemoto of Bizen Green Energy,
-
who have been doing pioneer practices
in the community.
-
Since half a year before actually,
I have been supporting the business
-
of the Ministry of the Environment to organize systems
in the regions to produce renewable energies
-
and in Odawara City,
the region I have been in charge
-
where Mr. Shizawa have been playing the central role
trying to promote renewable energies.
-
We would like to hear him
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about what he has been doing
and about the obstacles he might have had up to now
-
and have him ask the predecessaors
about their expericences to share the experiences.
-
Firstly, we would like to hear each
speakers briefly for about 3 minutes
-
about what he has been doing and
about troubles he experienced.
-
Now for the first, Mr. Suzuki, please.
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Hello, My name is Suzuki
of Hokkaido Green Fund.
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I have just arrived from Sapporo.
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This is Community Power Conference and
I have been engaged in projects of community wind power projects.
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We have been doing businesses
of the so-called community wind power
-
of twelve projects throughout the country,
-
such as in Hokkaido, Tohoku and Kanto area,
in Chiba Prefecture, in Ibaraki Prefecture
-
and a recent one in Ishikawa Prefecture.
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In September 2001, we built the first windmill named 'Hamakaze-chan'
in the town of Hamatonbetsu in Hokkaido.
-
There was a story which Søren talked earlier
about amateurs gathered to try to do something
-
and about how to seek
the participation of the people.
-
Exactly the same thing happened
eleven years ago in Hokkaido.
-
Most of the people involved were not engineers
and of course, I am not, either.
-
Most of them were office workers,
not-so-rich people.
-
But finally, we gatthered so-called citizen
investment fund of about 150 million
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and built the first windmill.
-
We could have done much better
if we had known
-
the model of Samsø or other places in Denmark
or the various European initiatives
-
I honestly did not have
any knowledge of them at all.
-
So I visited a lot of banks
to borrow money anyway
-
But there was no reason to loan the money of
hundreds of millions yen to this tiny NPO.
-
I was trying to do it without such knowledge.
-
No one did not lend us money, so we thought
we should have to collect it from everybody.
-
We had such a very simple idea.
-
We came to know the projects in Denmark
after we started the business
-
and learned the lesson of it.
-
Having had these experiences, even anybody
can do the community energy business
-
only if they have will to do it.
I think so now.
-
I think it would better not to have
an ability if it is inadequate.
-
So let's do it together.
That is all I have to say now.
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Hello everyone. My name is Takemoto
of Bizen Green Energy.
-
I am from Bizen City in Okayama Prefecture.
As you might know,
-
it is famous for Bizen-yaki pottery and Shizutani school
which we are aiming at a world heritage.
-
Recently, it is famous for Kakioko, a kind of
Okonomiyaki pancake with oyster
-
which became No. 9
in a B-class-gourmet competition.
-
It is said to be populated by 40,000
but less than that at the moment.
-
We started the business of renewable
energy in such a small town.
-
It was seven years ago as Mr. Suzuki mentioned.
-
People did not understand us
when we said energy or environment.
-
We tried to do the energy business of
the sun and the forest utilizing so-called citizen fund.
-
They were hard to do, both of them.
-
We didn't have any know-how
to collect citizen funds
-
and there were no professionals of enery
of the sun and the forest, either.
-
It is in a small town with the population of
only 40,000 as I mentioned earlier.
-
We had difficulties to find peple
with such technology or knowledge.
-
We used the knowledge of Mr. Suzuki
to collect citizen funds
-
and started the energy business with the help
of the people of ISEP on such business.
-
After we started the business, we found that
each local area has different energies available.
-
Our Bizen City in Okayama Prefecture,
it is said to be a country of sunny days.
-
The forest energy is a biomass energy,
forestry biomass.
-
It is very warm in our town
-
and we only needs stove only from mid-November
or the end of November to mid-March.
-
It is very difficult to do the biomass business
in such a warm region. We had a hurdle anyway.
-
It was our challenge how to solve this.
I would like to explain it in detail later.
-
In such efforts, we considered what we can do.
-
From our experience in seven years,
-
we have engaged in three kind of
activities as our major themes.
-
For the first, we have accumulated various know-how
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of energy saving of offices,
buildings and factories.
-
These have become quite popular on which
we have deepened technical knowledge.
-
And for the second,
it is the introduction of renewable energy
-
which includes solar PV and small hydro and others.
We have challenged the various things.
-
For the third, we call it arbitrarily
research and study business.
-
This includes how to tackle with
various obstacles we might encounter
-
or rules we have to follow in each region
-
when we introduce renewable energies
or when we achieve energy saving.
-
We originally want to expand our business
in Okayama Prefecture or in Bizen area.
-
But there is a limit in such areas.
-
So we focus on helping people who have intention
to do such business using our experiences so far.
-
We are trying now to expand our business
to comparatively wide areas
-
such as in Kansai, Chugoku,
Shikoku and Kyushu areas.
-
We hope we could continue such businesses
well from now on. That is all.
-
Thank you. And Mr. Shizawa.
Do you use slides?
-
No, I don't.
I am from Odawara City.
-
It is a town of 200,000 people,
a relatively small population
-
at the west end of Kanagawa Prefecture
-
which is next to Tokyo metropolitan area.
-
Around Odawara City, there are Hakone
which is famous for hot springs
-
and Sagami Bay which is rich of seafood.
-
I think that the region has been comparatively
blessed with the natural environment.
-
In addition, we have Odawara Castle
which is said to be the closest
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castle to Tokyo made of reinforced concrete.
-
It is a town which has a history,
in other words, a very feudal town.
-
They tend to hate a new challenge
or are not good at it.
-
We have a project called 'Mujinzo'
which means inexhaustible supply,
-
organized by the municipality government
of Odawara started last year.
-
'Mujinzo' was the word of Kinjiro Ninomiya
who was a famous thinker
-
originated in Odawara
in the late Edo period.
-
It is taken from his words,
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'If you withdraw the power of the people,
it speads inexhaustible.'
-
This 'Mujinzo' project is to aim citizen-led
administration in the fields
-
such as environment, agriculture, tourism and commerce
by connecting citizens organizations.
-
A major turning point was March 11
followed by the effect of the rolling blackouts.
-
Normally the roads to Hakone did not work in holidays
because of the major traffic jams before 311.
-
But we could not have observed any car
under the influence of the planned power outage.
-
All citizens of Odawara have
witnessed such a spectacle.
-
Because of this, the movement has come out among people
of the local government and local marchants
-
to make energy of the region by themselves.
-
The city government immediately organized a so-called town
planning school for its residents in August last year.
-
As its first step, they asked ISEP to give a lecture
with the theme of renewable energy
-
and Mr. Tetsunari Iida gave an impressive lecture
-
I think that it has been
the driving force for the Odawara.
-
Then we were chosen as one of the seven
areas nationwide to run a project
-
with a subsidy of the Ministry of the Environment
and were cooperated by Mr. Furuya.
-
I was chosen as a coodinator in the project
because I attended the town planning school.
-
The current situation is like this.
-
The council was established in December last year
mainly among the local merchants.
-
As the first project,
-
We are considering installing solar PV panels on the roof
of the first public facilities by citizens investment.
-
We want to establish a private energy company
of the region by the end of this year.
-
so we are doing various activities now.
-
And we held two meetings this year
to exchange opinions on energy with citizens.
-
More than 60% of people are supportive
of the dissemination of renewable energy
-
as you can see obviously in the survey.
-
Although general remarks are in favor,
the particulars are not yet even in the opposite
-
because they do not know well about renewable energy.
I think this is the current situation.
-
As mentioned by Mr. Suzuki earlier, we consider the preceding regions as base models
-
such as Iida City of Mr. Hara, for example.
-
I think it is the largest merit
that we can hear people
-
of various preceding areas
including Mr. Hara.
-
We visited Mr. Hara in a large group of people
-
including city counsil members, city officials,
people of local financial institutions and local media.
-
We have been learning various things.
-
We have not even started yet.
We are just before arriving at the starting line.
-
That is the situation, thank you.
-
Thank you very much.
-
Although words of 'renewable energy'
are beginning to circulate,
-
the general public does not
understand it in reality, I think.
-
I think it is very important to hear about
the actual stories from the precedents
-
who have been experienced a lot.
-
When everyone could imagine what it is like,
-
I think they would get started with it.
-
Søren, do you have any comment to hear them?
-
Thank you.
-
I have something that I really want to ask in this session.
-
That is a way of communicating.
-
I think it is also related to the cultural background of Japan
what Søren mentioned just now,
-
We tend to think that a great person somewhere in high place
would analyze the problem and present a neat solution.
-
We probably thinks that it is normal.
-
That is one of the reasons why
the large-scale centralized technologies
-
have spread until now, I think.
-
To do it by ourselves in each community,
-
we have to act in our own initiative in the region.
-
Instead of expecting someone else would do it,
we have to consider what we could do.
-
And we have to appeal it gradually
to the people around us.
-
I think it is very important that we communicate
in a way so taht we could have them answer us.
-
The predecessors, including Mr. Takemoto
and Mr. Suzuki, have practiced it
-
struggling with such things.
-
There must have been the case which
you found the most difficult to overcome
-
or the other difficult cases
which you could not overcome.
-
I really want to ask both of you about them.
-
Well, I don't think it has been actually so hard.
-
Mr. Shizawa from Odawara said
he was from a feudal region.
-
I think the people of Hokkaido is somewhat sloppy.
-
They do not think seriously,
but it is not always good.
-
I think it was favorable for us
there were a lot of such people.
-
Renewable energy was recognized to be equivalent
to residential solar PV at that time in Japan.
-
Mega-Watt solar is often mentioned these days.
-
Wind power costs several hundred million yen per unit.
-
Such projects are engaged
by large companies, for example,
-
which might be related to electric utilities
-
or to heavy electric machinery manufacturers,
-
and financed using the credit strength
of such large companies.
-
They might be of the infrastructure business.
-
I think everyone recognized them like this.
-
No one imagined such projects could be done
mainly by the citizens of the region.
-
It could be done only by such a dumb guy
who insists to do it
-
but not by the one who has prejudice
that those are not possible.
-
And I think there are a lot of ways to do it.
-
I mentioned earlier aboult the first windmill
named 'Hamakaze-chan'.
-
Even I might have said
we have built it on our own money,
-
but It was actually not that way. We took a so-called
Renoma Strategy, or parasitic strategy.
-
There was a trading company called Tomen,
whose wind power business are taken over
-
by Eurus Energy, a largest wind power company in Japan now,
-
and which had a plan of a wind power
project in Hamatonbetsu
-
and had measured winds there at that time.
-
It was only a few years since I started the business
-
and we were only two full-time staff,
-
me and a non-regular worker.
-
I didn't know anything about machinery,
electricity or finance.
-
So I started by taking a remora
or parasitic strategy.
-
I think there are a lot of approaches
for a small business entity
-
to show the results such as cooperating
with a large company of the power of money.
-
In order to dispatch information, it is essential
to make visible what have been invisible.
-
I think there could be a lot of
different ways to achieve it.
-
As a human being, I have a great ability
to forget what has been tough.
-
There must have been a lot of things
that are tough or painful.
-
I was just trying to recall what I have found tough
while Mr. Suzuki was talking.
-
There was one big problem
when we started the business.
-
It was a subsidized project
of the Ministry of the Environment.
-
It was a model project for the virtuous circle
between the environment and the economy
-
and its local budget was 500 million yen initially,
-
which was actually 450 million,
and this amount of money was pooled.
-
I would be paid only when
the project is executed.
-
But a lot of people misunderstood because
the false information has spreaded precedently
-
that Bizen Green Energy in Bizen City
had got paid 450 million yen.
-
It took about a year to dispel
this erroneous information.
-
I was called and told coercively by people,
who I really don't want to be called,
-
that it would do if I would say yes.
-
I suddenly remembered it.
But I have forgotten it.
-
To make our business popular,
we had to raise funds.
-
It is easy to understand by comparison
to windmills which Mr. Suzuki involves in.
-
In case of windmills, the cost of building
per unit is known approximately.
-
So the amount of fund would be
200 million yen per unit.
-
We only have to see the progress of
gathering 200 million yen.
-
But in case of energy saving and forestry biomass,
we have to handle stoves, boilers and so on.
-
It is crutial to make the cost of progressing project
match properly with the amount of funds gatthered.
-
It is thankful that the fund is gathered well.
But it is unfavorable that the fund is gathered too much
-
because the interest rate of the fund
is considerably high and we would fall into trouble.
-
We could not continue the business
-
unless the fund is gathered simultaniously
with the progress of the project.
-
So we have to make sure the situation of
the two above progressing properly together.
-
On one hand, we have to confirm
the amount of the fund gathered every day.
-
And on the other hand, we have to consider
how to do sales activities
-
and to plan what and where we install
and how much we expend for it.
-
In case of energy saving, we proceed simultaneously
at many places in many different ways.
-
It should be decided on a case-by-case basis.
-
It costed 100 million yes at one site
and 10 million at another.
-
It was difficult to balance those things, I guess.
-
We have a regional council called Mahoroba Bizen Council
to have our business understood.
-
This council and our company, Bizen Green Energy Company,
responsible for the hard part of the business,
-
are conducting the business inextricably.
-
The council is responsible for the soft part such as
environmental learning or environment education.
-
We could not have a lot of fathers attend the briefings
because they might be too busy.
-
We considered what might be done.
We tried to approach women
-
who involved citizen group, NPOs or various organizations
doing activities in the region.
-
We had such people gathered in the briefings.
-
They might have talked back home to their husbands.
-
And we focused on children as well.
-
For Social education of fourth grade of
elementary school on a parents visiting day,
-
Moms and dads visited schools and listened well
to what we talked saying it is good.
-
But they tended to forget this
when they left the classroom.
-
But children remembered it firmly
-
and told their mom and dad
what energy saving was like.
-
I thought we tried to spread it to homes like this.
-
I would like to talk about our business.
-
People understand the problems of energy
or the reduction of CO2 emission these days.
-
On the days when we started the business,
-
we talked how to reduce several tons of CO2 emission
per year visiting various companies.
-
Everyone would agree completely no matter
what company or municipalities he or she were of.
-
They said that it was nice or that it was a good effor.
-
But nothing happened after that.
-
To bring it to the contract,
-
we had to show the expense reduction
-
of the running cost along with the initial cost.
-
By indicating some incentive,
-
we could change their attitudes a little,
I suddenly remember now.
-
I would talk more when I remember
the story much more difficult.
-
Thank you.
-
It might be great to be able
to forget about the hard days.
-
We are fortunate to have people
with such experiences today.
-
Mr. Shizawa, would you like to ask them
about the obstacles you encounter now
-
or about the problem you are seeking the solution?
-
Please ask them by all means
if you have something.
-
In case of Odawara, we have no form yet
and we have to create it from now.
-
In that sense, I think it is very important
to share the vision.
-
So we held the community meeting
to exchange opinions.
-
We have an argument among the organizing staffs.
-
On one hand, we could not proceed
if we only listened to the citizens for their opinions.
-
On the other hand, there are opposite opinions.
-
I would like to hear about the way
how to communicate with the community
-
which Mr. Furuya mentioned earlier.
-
We heard about the case of Samsø earlier.
-
How they were able to capture citizens
specifically with respect to the sharing of vision,
-
I would like it to be explained.
-
Thank you.
It was very suggestive.
-
We have a panelist, Miss Misaki Ashiki now.
Please come on stage.
-
Please welcome her with applause.
-
I think the way of communication
is very important
-
and I thought some points became visible
from the preceding experiences.
-
I would like to introduce Misaki now.
-
She is affiliated with an organization
called Renewable Energy Shihu-net
-
which make efforts to promote renewable
energy in the whole Nagano Prefecture
-
networking various initiatives
in various areas in Nagano Prefecture.
-
She has been appointed to a member
of the board of directors of the organization.
-
She is trying to make efforts where she lives.
-
Misaki is actually a singer-songwriter
-
and has various ideas in terms of communication
by means of culture, particularly of music.
-
So please introduce yourself first
for about three minutes.
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I'm sorry to be late. I have been to the hospital
-
because I became food poisoning
in what I ate yesterday.
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As a singer-songwriter, I usually make songs
of nature or of life and sing them.
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have been doing activities related to
renewable energy since six years before
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and have made live performances
using electricity generated by renewable energy.
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In such relationships, people who wanted to promote
renewable energy in the whole prefecture
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gathered and organized Renewable Energy Shinshu-net
covering the whole area of the prefecture last year.
-
I think some peope of the network are present today.
-
After such a network covered
the whole area of the prefecture,
-
various regional councils were
formed in various areas.
-
There is Suwa Regional Council in Suwa area
and Matsumoto Council, for example.
-
Each regional council has been launched
-
and has been making efforts
to promote renewable energy in the region
-
and in the prefecture as a whole
cooperating with other regions.
-
Thank you.
And I would like to ask Misaki immediately.
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I think problems are to be solved
by yourselves not by anyone else.
-
I think it is important to recognize
and to define the problem properly.
-
This is what Mr. Iida, our director, have been
saying these days in various places.
-
Mainly in technical perspective,
people in Japan often seek solutions
-
without defining the problem properly
when some information comes up.
-
So they eventually choose inappropriate solution
-
because the problems are not properly defined.
-
It might be one of the reasons that such cases
has been recognized as failures in Japan.
-
I think it is the people in the region
who knows the problem.
-
To solve the problem, it is crucially important
to share the vision or the image of the future.
-
The music is very important as a means
of communication to make it possible.
-
In that sense, Misaki, you might have something
from your experience.
-
Well, I sing songs where people gather
such as the supporters meetings.
-
I actually involve running Shinshu-net Suwa
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and held the screening of
the film 'The 4th Revolution'.
-
And after the screening, we had
the environment manager of Nagano Prefecture
-
talk about what we have to do from now on
in Nagano Prefecture in terms of renewable energy.
-
I think it is important to create places
where people can gather and brainstorm the wisdom
-
to spread renewable energy in their own communities.
-
I finally found the question. Can I ask it now?
-
I have intention to do something
together with local people
-
to spread renewable energy
in Suwa region or in Nagano Prefecture.
-
It is likely that people who are
interested in environment
-
or renewable energy come to such meetings.
-
People with higher awareness
of those things gather togeter.
-
I don't know which approach we should take.
-
We had better to appeal to the people
who have intention to do something
-
but have no idea or who want to involve
in renewable energy
-
but don't know what to do only after a concrete project
is launched and is ready to run.
-
Otherwise, we have to appeal to such people
to participate the project from scratch
-
thinking together what they don't understand,
in other words, with a bottom-up approach.
-
I would like to ask the experiences
of this sort to the precedents.
-
Thank you. Mr. Suzuki and Mr. Takemoto,
what do you say about it?
-
Well, I do not know much
about difficult matters.
-
There is a town called Hamatonbetsu, for example, populated with about 4,000 people,
-
approximately the same size as Samsø,
-
neighboring Horonobe which had a plan of
the disposal of high-level radioactive waste.
-
In Hamatonbetsu live a lot of dairy farmers
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and there was a opposition movement
involving the whole town.
-
I think there was such a energy related process.
-
When we started, most people didn't understand
wind power or solar power
-
even if they did as a phenomenon.
-
We launched a group called 'Hamatonbetsu
Renewable Energy Study Group'
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with only several people actually.
-
Its membership has been
increased to about 55 people.
-
The unionization rate was considerably high,
which is 55 out of 4,000 people.
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It might be tens of thousands in Sapporo City.
-
I think is we have to use different techniques
for different people for a variety of reasons.
-
The central figure in Hamatonbetsu
was also called Mr. Suzuki by chance.
-
There are many good people
called Suzuki actually.
-
They have something in common,
the name and the fondness for drinking.
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When we had a meeting in the tavern,
we get a boost to talk.
-
There are a lot of ways for people
who like drinking or who like music, I think.
-
As I said earlier, people
with this underlying motive or intention,
-
or even one such person
might be sufficient at first, I think.
-
I think such people are necessary
to spread the movement.
-
It is impossible to spreads magnificently
from the beginning.
-
I think it spreads concentrically.
-
As mentioned just now, the situation has
quite changed since we started the business.
-
Around the days when we started the business,
people were not sure
-
what renewable energy were definitely.
I guess those were such days.
-
You might understand it
if you recall six or seven years ago.
-
Those were propably such days when the word
'Lohas' had become quite popular.
-
I arbitrarily imagine that it is
because there are too much information
-
that people don't understand
what renewable energy is now.
-
On the other hand, when people hear
about a successful story,
-
they say they want to do it too.
-
I hear them say such very often
when I visite various places.
-
I often say that we have to look
for something unnoticed
-
which we already have instead of
wanting what we could not obtain.
-
People tend to be willing to do
what seems they couldn't. To say it plainly,
-
when you want to do solar PV in the region
with less daylight hours and ask me for an idea,
-
I have to say I have no idea unfortunately.
-
It is difficult to do solar power generation
in the area with less sunshine.
-
Then are there other energies?
This is merely an example.
-
What we can do is to investigate properly
what kind of energy available in the region.
-
There are many cases in which the windmill
does not rotate because of the unsufficient wind
-
or water is not flowing even if small hydro is introduced.
-
we could not move forward in such cases.
-
We investigate properly as the feasibility study.
-
This is a case happend recently.
-
We aimed to introduce a smart community
or a smart grid.
-
We showed various sugestions
including small hydro, solar PV or mega solar.
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A significant number of people of an organization came
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and they opposed to our plans from the beginning.
-
They didn't change their attitude at all
even if we explained anyhow.
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They opposed absolutely.
-
Our staff said how and in what
way we should explain
-
and how we could make them understand.
-
I considered and proposed
in the idea of reversal not to explain.
-
In other words, we were going to hear
everything they had in their mind.
-
We were determined to hear the attendant
of the meeting what they think anyway.
-
and we listened them hard.
-
It has naturally come into view
that we should do
-
and that we could make them
understand a little in some way
-
by including a sentence in the report
-
saying that there are oppsition
among residents
-
or that it might be difficult in short
or mid term to commercialize.
-
Then they said that it was exactly
what they wanted to say.
-
It was only a very simple idea.
It is important to remove such obstacles one by one.
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As Søren mentioned earlier,
-
it important after all to listen to them
and to understand their actual demands.
-
In addition, we have to find
people prepared to take the risk.
-
and to know who are the key people
in the region or in organizations.
-
By having such people
gather to discuss repeatedly,
-
we could advance gradually.
-
Once things became changing better,
people would follow us for some reason.
-
I remember now bad rumors or
information and reputational damage.
-
Reputational damage was
our headache when we started.
-
It was most often said that
our company would no longer exist
-
when the subsidized project of
the Ministry of the Environment finishes.
-
We celebrated our seventh anniversary thankfully
-
and I can speak here today.
-
We would like to continue
our business somehow.
-
There would be such a variety of issues.
-
I think we could slightly forsee the whole
by doing small things one by one.
-
Thank you.
-
It has been told that listening is very important.
-
We should just do it.
-
We have 10 minutes left now and
we would like to hear from the floor.
-
If anyone has a question,
please designate a speaker.
-
Prior to the question, please tell
your name and where you are from.
-
Is there anyone?
The gentleman with glasses, please.
-
I am fromTokyo and affiliated to
a group called 'Personal Energy'
-
which begins to research the possibility of
renewable energy even in Tokyo.
-
My name is Iwamoto.
-
I would like to ask Mr. Suzuki
a little about the strategy of
-
so-called 'remora strategy'
or parasitic strategy.
-
I would like him to explain briefly aboult it,
how he have done it actually.
-
Yes, as I said earlier, there was a trading
company called Tomen Corporation
-
which had a plan to build three
1,000 kW windmills in Hamatonbetsu.
-
The windmills were of Bonus
at that time and it is now Siemens.
-
It was planned to connect them to the special high
voltage transmission line of 66,000 volts.
-
They had already measured
wind and we borrowed the data
-
and we started our project as
a part of the series of their project
-
even thought we had to do various contrants
or orders of construction separately.
-
We didn't have any technical knowledge
-
including negotiations with the power company
concerning the connection to the grid.
-
We did mostly in the form of a commission.
-
Of course, we had to do by ourselves
to organize residents achieving a consensus.
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We also have to raise funds.
-
We didi it like this.
-
I do not know whether I have
answered your question properly.
-
Subsequently, I would like to ask something to Søren.
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In Hokkaido, or in other prefectures as well,
-
the situation has occurred such as
attracting companies in the past.
-
Local governments are promoting
projects of mega solar, for example,
-
offering land to large companies.
Such trend has occured.
-
I think it might be good because
there are many suitable places in Hokkaido.
-
Renewable energy business should be
originally of local communities.
-
It is only energy which circulates
but also the economic benefit should.
-
I think this point is important.
-
In Denmark, there are regulations
concerning the ownership of such projects
-
such as equity or share.
-
And national regulations
on finance of the projects.
-
I would like to know about these above.
-
Thank you.
-
I would like to accept only a single question
because we are running out of time.
-
The gentleman there, please.
-
Thank you very much.
-
My name is Shirasaki and I come
from the Nasu in Tochigi Prefecture.
-
I would like to ask Mr. Shizawa.
-
I saw the video of discussion between the mayor of Odawara City
-
and Mr. Iida at ISEP's website.
-
And I found it interesting.
-
We are trying to start various
things in Tochigi Prefecture.
-
To what extent does administrative side
commit to such projects in Odawara City?
-
Is there any budget of the city
for those projects?
-
I would like to ask you about it.
-
We were adopted one of the seven regions
of the Ministry of the Environment 2011.
-
We were only one region as a city adopted.
-
Now we are acting
on the initiative of Odawara City.
-
I am doing business locally
-
and local citizens are working voluntarily
such as planning the project.
-
We learned from the preceding regions
that it is important to have three actors
-
such as a motivated local government,
motivated citizens and motivated leaders
-
to achieve renewable energy project successfully.
-
Local government can not guarantee the debt basically.
-
We should not expect it and they says they won't.
-
We heard that local government
could do a lot of other things.
-
Local government is proactive at the moment
-
but I think, at a certain point,
private sector should take over the initiative.
-
Thank you very much.
-
Time is up? It is still three minutes remaining?
-
I will take one more question.
-
Do you have any questions?
-
Here you are.
-
I am from Hokkaido where
a lot of sloppy people live.
-
I am sincerely respectful
to the activities of speakers.
-
I think one of the reasons why these activities
do not proceed as expected
-
is there are so-called resistance forces
such as large power companies.
-
As you know, there are 200 million kW
of wind power potential in Japan
-
and there are 100 million kW in Hokkaido.
-
Those potentials are equivalent of
approximately 62 nuclear power plant including offshore.
-
Hokkaido Electric Power Company(Hepco)
has solicited the purchase of
-
wind power generation in Hokkaido recently.
-
They have purchased 360,000 kW so far
and offered only 200,00 kW
-
to make it the total of 560,000 kW.
-
There were applications of 1.8 million kW.
-
There are such wind power business potential
even before FIT become effective.
-
But Hepco only purchase 200,000 kW.
-
There were no public offerings
in the nothern are of Japan Sea coast
-
where there are of the most of potentials.
-
The reason was the limitation
of the transmission line.
-
The perspective or the strategy to break through the resistance forces,
-
I would like to ask them to the moderator.
-
The moderator, it is me.
-
The so-called wall of the power
companies are huge.
-
I think it could be overcome only
by accumulating the activities in every community.
-
We have to change at the grass roots
-
and to start changing today in various communities
-
learning and accumulating
experiences and lessons.
-
This has to be our strategy.
-
Rules are now catching up now
even they have been so late,
-
I think it is important that we should
take advantage of this opportunity.
-
It has become time now.
-
That is all for this session,
'Vision and Realization'.
-
We enter the break after this.
You can ask speakers
-
if you have something to ask them.
-
So thank you very much.
