[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.80,0:00:40.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are there rules for a debate? Because a political debate
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.94,0:00:45.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must not be polluted by certain stakeholders.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.87,0:00:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Are you talking about our debate or are you thinking about...?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.24,0:00:49.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No, not this one.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.17,0:00:50.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- In a general sens?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.79,0:00:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, on a general basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.77,0:00:57.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So in Athens, there was an assembly where all those who wanted
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.80,0:01:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could gather. So they were 30, 40, 50 thousand depending on the historical period.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.33,0:01:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, they had the plague. 200 years is long so population changes and they didn't have population census.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.19,0:01:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's an approximation that we have on the population of Athens. So they gathered
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.40,0:01:17.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and almost at every gathering, they were 6000. So that's quite an assembly.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.56,0:01:25.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,6000 with no microphone. 6000 and all keep quiet. Only one talks at a time.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.22,0:01:30.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't debate. It's not when you are about to vote that you are going to debate. Here, you vote.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.89,0:01:35.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not when you vote that you debate the laws you're about to vote. It's the preliminary work
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.95,0:01:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of those randomnly drawn. Those randomnly chosen prepared teh laxs. Then, we talked about it on the Agora to know
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.03,0:01:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what were these laws. Then came the moment where you had to go and vote. Spokesmen came
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.12,0:01:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to defend. Some preached in favor, others against, one at a time. And people listened.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.50,0:01:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you wish, in the Athenian Assembly, you didn't have a debate. You had a serie of speaches
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.22,0:02:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one after the other and then you voted. The citizens were autonomous. That is they wrote by themselves,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.58,0:02:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they votes by themselves the laws to which they consented. That was the "raison d'être", the justification
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.38,0:02:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of democracy. It wasn't to abolish social injustices of Athenians.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.16,0:02:25.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't read anything saying so, at least. Simply, after 800 years of tyranny
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.32,0:02:30.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had touched their soul, they were fed up with tyrants. They wanted to imagine
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.61,0:02:35.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a regime of political equality. I haven't forgotten your objections
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.07,0:02:38.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but let's go through the schematic first. So in the schematic you have as
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.44,0:02:43.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leaflet, you have two parts: the top and the bottom one.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.69,0:02:49.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'll project it on the wall in the same way so people can read it (otherwise it'll be too small)
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.31,0:02:52.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'll first talk about the top section, then
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.24,0:02:56.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the bottom section. It's better when it's large so people have an easier read.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.79,0:03:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it working. Is the projector working? Yes. The center of the schematic is the objective
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.73,0:03:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Athenians. So I'll tell you what I read about the Athenians (and I read quite a lot about them).
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.70,0:03:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll give you a couple of sources. Amazing and delicious ones,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.86,0:03:18.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's my opinion. Don't hold a grudge against me
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.15,0:03:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I'm wrong. We can all make mistakes. Those who say they don't make mistakes
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.52,0:03:28.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are liars. I'm sincerly searching. If you show me where I'm mistaken, you can
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.51,0:03:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see me change and adapt. I don't care about being right. I'm trying to imagine
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.10,0:03:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with you a system that works, a pragmatic system. I'm not an idealist. Alright, a little,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:40.86,0:03:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe. I'm not trying to build a dream. I'm searching for something sturdy
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.02,0:03:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would be possible. If I said "this will never work", I wouldn't even do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.71,0:03:54.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wouldn't bother with all these efforts. Yes?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.84,0:03:59.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I've been following your actions over the years and I see an evolution. Since you say
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.44,0:04:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you are searching, I feel that you are becoming more and more technical
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.94,0:04:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and less and less human. I mean...
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.57,0:04:10.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Amongst the 99%,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.98,0:04:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can be sure that 90% just really don't care.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.28,0:04:18.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even if you give them power, they won't want it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.09,0:04:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I don't want to give them power. They must want it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.15,0:04:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- The poster idea, I've tried it. 99% of the people coming home don't read it
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.07,0:04:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or simply don't ask. And the 1% are just to be polite. So it really needs to be pragmatical.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.02,0:04:35.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In my eyes, democracy works because it's easy: you go and vote
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.83,0:04:40.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once every five years and then you can just be mad about it all you want, no one cares.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.24,0:04:42.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You mean the representative government, not democracy?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.74,0:04:48.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, yes, sorry. So it's all good and well to want something good.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.50,0:04:53.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like we are heading towards a system
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.57,0:04:55.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it just asks too much out of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.61,0:04:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, that's a real possibility.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.72,0:04:59.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And you'd need a different education than ours...
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.23,0:05:03.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Couldn't we work on this... Sorry, what is your name?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.74,0:05:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Alexandre.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.94,0:05:10.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Alexandre. Couldn't we work on this as a team, Alex? I understand you clearly.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.47,0:05:18.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The more I work on this, the more technical I become. I have so many things
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.09,0:05:23.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say that it's just really long to explain. It becomes accessible only to people
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.57,0:05:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have put themselves to work. And that's just not many. Maybe 10% of the population if you're optimistic.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.72,0:05:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I agree with you. But at the same time, it's not a lost battle.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.92,0:05:40.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you shouldn't count only on me. I don't feel like I am a the guy
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.94,0:05:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who brings something. I am more the small rock, the small mechanism
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.85,0:05:55.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a group. Maybe I have reached a level that I am no longer easy to access
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.66,0:06:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's just complicated, it scares people who discover it all. I hear you and understand you.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.72,0:06:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It must be others than I, like an Alexandre or a Paul. And they are going to simplify it all.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.17,0:06:15.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Paul made a website without telling me about it. He told me once it was finished.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.25,0:06:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I discovered it, I said: "It's great! It's fabulous what he did!"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.92,0:06:24.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He made a web site called "www.le-message.org". I've put up some screenshots.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.59,0:06:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just 5-6 fabulous pages. It's light, it's "Sugar free". He condensed very simply,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.59,0:06:37.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the conferences and the texts that he read.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.97,0:06:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He thought hard to condense it. He must have had the same objection as you: "Too much stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.17,0:06:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the website of Chouard. It's too much, you just get drowned by it."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.04,0:06:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"So what's important in there?" And he just kept the essential part to bring people
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.59,0:07:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the root of causes, the constitutional process, the message. We'll be able to change everything if we
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.33,0:07:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gather an assembly. If we make the same representative government as today, but
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.44,0:07:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we right the rules. Anyone but the professionals of politics. The same things
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.78,0:07:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as today but with counter-powers everywhere. Our initiative
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.22,0:07:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will block the system when we're unhappy. Even that, Alexander, it's already worth it!
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.63,0:07:26.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's an easy thing. And so that, he made it. On his website "www.le-message.org",
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.41,0:07:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should go and see, there are five short points, each with a paragraph
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.04,0:07:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a couple lines, really light, and every word counts. The words you need
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.87,0:07:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand the logic. Point 1, Point 2, Point 3, so what we need is:
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.08,0:07:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a constitutional process where there are no professional politicians.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.16,0:07:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for it to work, we need to be many to want this. And it will solve many problems,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.76,0:07:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most social injustices will drop in front of our political power
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.05,0:08:02.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has not yet been seen. The people have never seen their political power, their capacity
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.63,0:08:09.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to resist ecological catastrophy, to corruption and so on. Allowing us to obtain
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.55,0:08:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our political power will let us solve the problem. So "le-message" brings you
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.78,0:08:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quickly, with an explanation much easier than mine, to this conclusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.65,0:08:24.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So could we not work as a team? That is that I continue to dig deeper on the subject,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.04,0:08:27.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,finding objections to make sure that the system is sturdy and that we haven't
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.99,0:08:33.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forgotten anything: A loop hole, a latent defect, something we've missed.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.05,0:08:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What you've brought up, Alexandre, in your objection is:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.64,0:08:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I manage to convince 10%, which is slightly more than the 1% doing politics,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.98,0:08:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but 90% just don't care. That's terrible!" \NEven when I try
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.34,0:08:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk to them, they say: "Talk to me about something else or I'll just leave,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.57,0:09:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I won't come back!" Alright, for this, I don't have a solution. But to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.72,0:09:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the answer to this is that it's nothing new. It already existed in Athens. In Athens, at the assembly,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.40,0:09:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you couldn't find the 30 or 40 thousand citizens. Only 6 thousand came.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.65,0:09:22.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The others just didn't care! And still, it worked fine. If you are unhappy about something,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.83,0:09:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you go to the assembly, you vote, you debate. If you're happy with how things are, you just don't go.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.71,0:09:30.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things will move on without you, but that's fine. What is important
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.87,0:09:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in democracy it that it works town by town. This is the scale of democracy.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.79,0:09:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where you were talking about the scale, it should be the scale of a town.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.22,0:09:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in every town, come who wants to come. You are right, we won't have
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.12,0:09:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assemblies of 30 thousand people. We won't fill a stadium each time. We'll have small assemblies
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.25,0:09:55.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of 6 to 10 thousand people if all goes well, if we organise things well. Yes?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.99,0:10:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, just to point out that out of the 6000 assembled at the Agora,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.12,0:10:04.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they renewed the pool quite often so you had a lot of new comers
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.91,0:10:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so there weren't 6000 who were passionate about the subject...
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.46,0:10:08.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You had a lot more than that.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.53,0:10:11.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- ... and the rest who just stayed put on the side line.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.45,0:10:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, absolutely. To simplify things, I was just saying people didn't care
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.91,0:10:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on voting day, 6000 were there, but you're correct when you point out
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.97,0:10:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it wasn't always the same. They came because the subject was important for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.13,0:10:30.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But you need the means to analyse because nowadays, with our education,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.63,0:10:33.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don't obviously have the means to analyse.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.33,0:10:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You're correct. But here again, the answer is in the solution. That is that, as Tocqueville says,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.22,0:10:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can have a randomnly picked jury. That's a school of thought.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.08,0:10:51.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It teaches us. As Aristotle used to say, the citizen learns how to be a citizen by practicing.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.21,0:10:55.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes he is governed, sometimes he governs, and so on. That's what makes him fit.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.25,0:11:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Practice makes perfect." What's important in democracy is
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.33,0:11:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that since you want true equality, you need amateurism. Amateurism
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.04,0:11:12.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,means not professional. In political philosophy, they consider
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.85,0:11:17.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that to build a ship, you need a skill,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.31,0:11:23.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they elect people that skill. To lead a war, you need a skill,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.06,0:11:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you elect your general who has that skill. To keep the books, you need a skill,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.54,0:11:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know how to count, so you elect your finance people. What the Athenians said
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.86,0:11:37.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I beleive we could say this too: we shouldn't develop a complex about this point of view,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.69,0:11:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there are many experiences out there. In the book of Sintomer (remind me to talk about it later if I forget),
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.50,0:11:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are many examples of the random draw / common lot that show
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.66,0:11:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we are competent. The randomnly drawn people are competent.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.21,0:11:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what the Athenians said is: "To do politics, all are equal."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.52,0:12:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You do not need skills, we have skills. We all have, because we are alive
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.68,0:12:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have a brain, skills. You just have to filter the insane. Look on your leaflet,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.11,0:12:12.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you see "docimasia". It's an exam you had to take. Not for your skills.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.52,0:12:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They saw this like a bet. Not a bet, an axiom.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.60,0:12:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were democrates. So as first basis,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.29,0:12:28.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a central pillar, if you take it away, you take out democracy. So this pillar
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.78,0:12:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said: "We assume we are political equals." Not intellectual equals. Athenians
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.72,0:12:41.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knew that there were insane people, thieves and so on. So they didn't trust each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.18,0:12:47.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They knew quite well that you had idiots or crooks.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.45,0:12:52.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are equal, they assumed. There are no "political" skills. You should read
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.51,0:12:58.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Castoriadis. Castoriadis plainly shows this. So if you will, the skill
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.82,0:13:04.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you will need to deal with daily business, does any elected representative have it more than a randonmly drawn person?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.95,0:13:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think so! I am clearly opposed to that train of thought! If I tried to make a list
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.50,0:13:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all the stupid things our elected representatives do all around the world, starting with declaring wars
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.70,0:13:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and atomic explosions to test the next awful weapons! And training our military forces
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.50,0:13:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with extravagant weaponry! All this is chosen by our elected representatives under the influence
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.38,0:13:36.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our military. So when I make a list of all the awful mistakes that our elected representatives make,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.39,0:13:42.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not afraid of what randomnly drawn people will do. We'll have a hard time reaching such a rich prize list
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.11,0:13:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of mistakes! What makes the skill of an elected representative newly in power, a young one?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.61,0:13:54.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing, he's worthless! A young lawyer, alright, he might be a good lawyer. But he'll be awful
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.09,0:14:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concerning climate change, or on the topic of geostrategy or of ecology. He knows nothing about it! Nothing!
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.73,0:14:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is going to give him the skill? And still, he'll become competent. How will he become competent?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.07,0:14:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,His work! He'll tackle a subject and he'll work on it. The randomnly drawn person,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.32,0:14:10.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he'll do the same. Randonmly drawn people are not skilled.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.62,0:14:13.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It'll scare you if you say: "You need a training".
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.27,0:14:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I recommend you to read Sintomer in a book called "The random draw,"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.42,0:14:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now in it's second edition, called "A small story of democratic experimentation".
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.49,0:14:23.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He explains random draw in Athens.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.25,0:14:24.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's interesting to see
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.37,0:14:26.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it in it's detailed daily mechanisms.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.50,0:14:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's interesting to see how it worked,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.08,0:14:30.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so how we could make it work, today.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.91,0:14:32.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then he explains the experiences of random draw / common lot,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.82,0:14:34.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today, everywhere around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.07,0:14:37.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you see that incompetent citizens...
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.79,0:14:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wait a second, it's our elected representatives that say we are incompetent! That's upsetting!
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.60,0:14:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We aren't that incompetent!
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.13,0:14:45.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who are you to say that we are incompetent?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.26,0:14:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't beleive them. Don't beleive them. You'll see what citizen assemblies are capable of,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.44,0:14:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"assemblies of incompetents"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.86,0:14:53.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assemblies of people, in fact honest people
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.100,0:14:56.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are randomnly drawn, who know nothing about the topic.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.46,0:14:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But after having worked on the topic for six months, it's something else.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.68,0:15:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have three months, four months, five months to think about genetically modified organism (GMO)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.80,0:15:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll listen to people from Monsanto,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.79,0:15:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll make them come. You have money to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.28,0:15:08.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you invite people from Monsanto and you'll ask them about GMOs
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.95,0:15:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't know anything about it at start. OK, that's true.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.67,0:15:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you'll ask them:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.87,0:15:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Explain to us why... because we've been asked if we are for or against GMOs.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.73,0:15:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You seem to be for it: explain to us, Monsanto, why you would want GMOs."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.79,0:15:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Monsanto sends their experts to explain why.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.81,0:15:27.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, these same "incompetents" know that the farmer confederation
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.38,0:15:28.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't agree with GMOs.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.59,0:15:30.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they invite the people of the farmer confederation to come.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.59,0:15:32.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And ask: "But why are you against GMOs?"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.59,0:15:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people of the farmer confederation explain.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.30,0:15:35.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,During this time, people listen all around.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.74,0:15:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Other citizens, who aren't in the assembly, but who can listen.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.88,0:15:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All these people listen and try to understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.60,0:15:44.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then they invite people from Bayer, another group like Monsanto,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.20,0:15:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ask: "Those guys told us that GMOs are..."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.84,0:15:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then Bayer responds with: "Yes, but they forgot to talk about this and that."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.16,0:15:52.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you invite the peasants from latin America.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.93,0:15:54.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have money, remember, so we make them come.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.55,0:15:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We ask: "You didn't have GMOs before. Explain to us why you wanted GMOs.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.01,0:16:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You installed GMOs? Good. So how did it go?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.96,0:16:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you way the pros' and cons',
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.44,0:16:05.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what do you think about it? It's good? It's bad?"
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.93,0:16:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the peasants of Latin America will explain.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.93,0:16:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then the "incompetents" invite the guys from Monsanto again, because
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.38,0:16:15.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are "incompetents", but not insane and rather honest.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.17,0:16:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they want to know everything. They want to understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.59,0:16:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they heard Monsanto once. They heard the peasants once.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.47,0:16:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They heard the opponents of GMOs once. But you need to be able to answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.34,0:16:26.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they invite Monsanto again:
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.18,0:16:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"They told us this and that. What do you say about it?"
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.04,0:16:29.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people from Monsanto answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.94,0:16:33.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After six months, those people are more competent than anybody.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.05,0:16:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's still people like you and me.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.19,0:16:38.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You really must read it. It'll give you confidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.95,0:16:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many stories of randomnly picked assemblies of so called "incompetents"
Dialogue: 0,0:16:45.03,0:16:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who, through their work, become very competent
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.42,0:16:50.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and most of all, uninterested,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.79,0:16:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,honest, very hard to influence by the lobbies because they owe nothing to no one.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.44,0:16:58.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is an elected representative corruptible?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.55,0:17:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has debts.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.68,0:17:03.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has power because someone financed his election campaign.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.38,0:17:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not talking about small representatives.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.00,0:17:08.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Small ones can be elected because in a town, you are elected
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.81,0:17:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because people know you. They know you for being someone good.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.99,0:17:12.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you won't win much anyhow.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.80,0:17:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You often see a lot of loyalty & devotion in the elected representatives of small towns.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.12,0:17:19.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not saying they are all rotten,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.68,0:17:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not at all. But when you change the size and you put at nation level
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.09,0:17:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or more so, European level, and worse, world level,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.08,0:17:31.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you need to finance an election campaign
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.29,0:17:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to win an election of that level,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.77,0:17:37.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the elected representatives are in debt towards those who financed their campaign.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.28,0:17:39.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those who financed elections aren't philanthropists.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.27,0:17:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's just untrue. Completly untrue.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.46,0:17:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They do it because they want favors in return.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.04,0:17:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when elected representatives talk about GMOs,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.19,0:17:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are very dependent of those who financed his election.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.35,0:17:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If amongst those who financed the election, you have Monsanto,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.23,0:17:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pharmaceutical labs, like Big Pharma, your elected representatives
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.39,0:18:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might be competent, well it's worst
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.36,0:18:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they are dishonest.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.70,0:18:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have competence and dishonesty...
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.56,0:18:05.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- They are in conflict of interest.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.37,0:18:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- They are in conflict of interest and it's a catastrophy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.46,0:18:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So concerning your objection on skill,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.20,0:18:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I have other arguments to refute it, but you can see that it doesn't resist analysis. Yes?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.50,0:18:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Concerning what you've been saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.12,0:18:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the guy who's picked at random
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.26,0:18:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can also be bought out by Monsanto
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.79,0:18:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or bought out by the farmer confederation.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.78,0:18:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I really must answer that objection since it keeps coming back.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.29,0:18:29.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's not that but...
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.62,0:18:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Let us imagine that the random guy picked is you.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:32.77,0:18:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.70,0:18:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Or me... I don't owe anything to anyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.35,0:18:39.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been picked. Monsanto comes along to try and corrupt me.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.49,0:18:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just see the ruckus that I'll raise at the assembly
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.68,0:18:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I say: "Hey! Monsanto is trying to corrupt me!"
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.31,0:18:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because if I don't owe anything to anyone,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.98,0:18:48.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a lot harder to corrupt me.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.07,0:18:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a lot harder to corrupt someone who doesn't owe anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.53,0:18:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let us say it the other way around:
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.11,0:18:58.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a lot easier to corrupt someone who owes you something.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.05,0:19:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And with an election on a large scale
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.98,0:19:06.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that mecanically puts the elected representative and the candidate for the next election
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.74,0:19:10.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a corruptible level. He's drugged with power, he'll ask for it again.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.59,0:19:12.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You put him in a dependency situation
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.73,0:19:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards his sponsors
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.10,0:19:17.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and towards his political party
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.19,0:19:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who also has the same financial sponsors.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.74,0:19:21.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You must understand that those people
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.60,0:19:24.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are absolutely not independent intellectually.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.66,0:19:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can be friendly and nice at start.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.38,0:19:29.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The mechanism of the election will corrupt them.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.17,0:19:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't hold a grudge against them for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.70,0:19:32.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just saying it's not the right system.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.98,0:19:35.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I need to answer
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.81,0:19:38.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the two, three strong objections you've made
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.09,0:19:39.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you say:
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.29,0:19:41.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"He may well be randomnly picked but he's corruptible."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.57,0:19:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's corruptible, but of course he is!
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.68,0:19:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Athenians knew he was.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.05,0:19:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not saying he's incorruptible, I'm saying he's harder to corrupt.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.65,0:19:53.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But most of all... Wait, let me move forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.27,0:19:55.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tac! That's really great!
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.36,0:19:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's modern and all.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.10,0:19:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here I go up, and here down. OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.06,0:20:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Down again... Day, Night. Like in "Mr. Bean".
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.14,0:20:05.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All you see hear are controls.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.81,0:20:08.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's to show how randomnly picked people weren't trusted!
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.55,0:20:10.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were pragmatic about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.55,0:20:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They weren't utopists or idealists.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.00,0:20:17.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They knew well enough that amongst random people
Dialogue: 0,0:20:17.42,0:20:18.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could have awful people.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.100,0:20:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they put a lot of control measures.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.76,0:20:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had controls before the mandate,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.99,0:20:25.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after the mandate and even during the mandate.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.08,0:20:27.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our elected representatives today have no controlling measures.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.92,0:20:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There: Zero.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:28.66,0:20:30.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Zero.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.56,0:20:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The small control
Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.86,0:20:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is present with elected representatives is:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.26,0:20:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe you won't be reelected.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.98,0:20:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you're not reelected...
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.88,0:20:40.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know what they did?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:40.41,0:20:43.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They voted an income,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.06,0:20:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an unemployment income.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.33,0:20:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you're fired, you're paid (as elected representative). How long?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.12,0:20:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just guess.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.42,0:20:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Five years. -Five years! Yes ! It's true.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.34,0:20:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you realise why we can't let them write such things?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.50,0:20:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Parlementarians wrote the rules
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.75,0:21:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that let them be payed when they are elected,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.14,0:21:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when they are rejected because they betrayed their promises
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.95,0:21:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are not reelected,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.02,0:21:09.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they still get payed until the next election!
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.34,0:21:11.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the current elected one is going to lie as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.43,0:21:13.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they thought of a system to keep on living on our behalf.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.94,0:21:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really on our behalf because they don't work for us anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.68,0:21:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when the current one gets kicked because he betrayed us,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.42,0:21:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have the choice between two, that's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.51,0:21:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Left and right wing. Both are the same in that matter.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.39,0:21:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In England, you also have two parties. In the USA, you have two parties.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.45,0:21:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a mafia system that is taking over all around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.07,0:21:33.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As if it were perfectly natural for them to be there.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.72,0:21:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What could you possible do smarter?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.49,0:21:38.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When this one gets fired, he still gets paid
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.55,0:21:41.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he'll come back in office at the next go. That's a part time job on average!
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.57,0:21:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But with this unemployment income, they're paid full time.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.52,0:21:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today, we don't have any control concerning our elected representatives.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.05,0:21:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No control at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:48.02,0:21:51.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here you had only the volunteers. So it's a filter.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.09,0:21:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those who didn't beleive they were capable didn't come.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.29,0:21:55.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a reassuring filter.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.97,0:21:58.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The guy who knows he can't or who doesn't care
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.71,0:22:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or he gets angry for nothing or which ever reason: he's filtering himself out.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.21,0:22:06.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going quickly but it would be worth spending time on this issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.55,0:22:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'm going quickly so I can respond to all your objections.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.92,0:22:12.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had the docimasia which was an exam to filter out the insane.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:12.54,0:22:15.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Real insanity. And then you had criterias.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.47,0:22:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should also think about criterias
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.00,0:22:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know who would be allowed for random picking, who we accept as representative.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.84,0:22:24.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Remember that these representatives don't vote the laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.67,0:22:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The goal is not: "They'll vote my laws!". Not at all, you will vote your laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.33,0:22:31.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Simply because you have randomnly picked representatives.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.26,0:22:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They will be weakened by this random draw. They will be controlled at every stage.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.74,0:22:40.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because of this random draw and weakening, you will decide.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.13,0:22:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't be afraid of the awful guy! He might still do his job badly here and there
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.75,0:22:47.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but he'll have very little power. Representatives will be controlled.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.28,0:22:50.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They won't have much power, not for a long period and never twice in a row!
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.81,0:22:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they'll be controlled, again and again and again.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.50,0:22:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is nothing to fear in the random draw/common lot, if you think it through.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.13,0:23:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you discover it, you don't know how it works.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.68,0:23:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You think: "Randomly picking someone!" and you imagine the same awful people as we have today.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.72,0:23:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The little control we do have, we'll lose it
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.85,0:23:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to just any random guy!" That's just a misunderstanding.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.64,0:23:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not it. Democracy, it's not the same system than what we have today,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.75,0:23:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plus random draw/common lot. That's not it.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.98,0:23:26.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Democracy is we vote our laws ourselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.15,0:23:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are things we can't do:
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.66,0:23:30.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can't prepare the laws because we're just too many.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.52,0:23:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we let a Counsel of Five Hundred randomnly picked prepare the laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:33.07,0:23:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They had a Counsel of Five Hundred randomnly picked who prepared the laws, discussed them.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.28,0:23:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mind you, nothing stopped us from participating as well. Then we voted the laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:40.32,0:23:42.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we need a Counsel of Five Hundred.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.45,0:23:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Randomnly picked people to prepare the laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.17,0:23:47.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you need other randomnly picked people to apply the law.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.75,0:23:52.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Judges were randomnly picked. Policemen were randomnly picked.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.95,0:23:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Policemen were randomnly picked. Not a bad idea ey?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.13,0:24:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Judges randomnly picked. They don't form a corp, a body, as Robespierre said.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.33,0:24:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is: it's not always the same people who are armed, who could fire,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.44,0:24:08.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were unpunished, who were protected. Not always the same ones.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.15,0:24:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're a judge then a year later, you're no longer a judge.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.75,0:24:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the end of your judge mandate, you are held accountable and you might well be punished. Punished!
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.74,0:24:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Severly punished. How will you be held accountable?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.32,0:24:22.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You will show what you did in front of a tribunal of 200 randomnly drawn people.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:22.87,0:24:25.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This surrender was part of taking care of democracy.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.47,0:24:30.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had to show your results. You were a volunteer, randomnly picked,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.07,0:24:34.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the job wasn't sleeping in the shade. You weren't paid 60 000€ / month even
Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.81,0:24:36.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you never came to the assembly.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.94,0:24:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had to work, to show results and if you did a bad job, you might be put to death at the end.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.92,0:24:45.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you had to be careful. So why did they volunteer? Because people knew what the greater good was.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.26,0:24:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It worked that way and you had the approval of others,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.34,0:24:52.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you had "verēcundia", shame. The one who served well his city,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.59,0:24:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he got a pantheon built for him. He received an arc of triomph.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.40,0:25:00.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He received all the honors, he was treated much better. People can be driven by appraisal
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.82,0:25:05.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we always will. Only insane people are driven by money
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.94,0:25:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and only money. So they take care of the greater good and are capable
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.42,0:25:12.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of doing things well just because they get 1 million euro per year?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.39,0:25:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very few people work with that as incentive.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.48,0:25:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You were talking about anachronism before, so when you say
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.64,0:25:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,random draw / common lot, it was in a certain context at a certain time period.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.15,0:25:23.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe, for our age, we should talk of something else than the random draw.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.35,0:25:24.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Maybe...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.14,0:25:29.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's ethics. Random draw, nowadays, it's a bit like a going to a casino...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.11,0:25:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It'll ask quite a lot of effort, I know that it's a big effort.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.63,0:25:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- In a court room, it's not the same scale, but
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.33,0:25:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are randomnly picked.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.24,0:25:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Today, in some courts, juries are randomnly picked and they can send people to jail for life.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.16,0:25:52.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it works fine. It's something very important.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.99,0:25:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It changes people.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.82,0:25:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Theoretically it works fine but even without considering awful people being
Dialogue: 0,0:25:58.80,0:26:04.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,randmonly picked, as you say, each of us can be influenced
Dialogue: 0,0:26:04.97,0:26:12.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by financial pressures, social pressure, professional, etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.68,0:26:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each of us, we know this, has pressure points. Sometimes, in the court room
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.98,0:26:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get juries out of the population who are random, yes, but with no skills...
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.04,0:26:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Absolutly
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.83,0:26:28.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- ...and without the means to defend against these kind of pressures.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.19,0:26:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a bit sad to think that we have to pay our representatives
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.73,0:26:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you know we started paying our representatives, our MPs
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.33,0:26:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our mayors, to avoid the fact that they become subject to those kind of pressures.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.67,0:26:49.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Corrupt.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.97,0:26:53.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- to financial pressures first but also to avoid the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.13,0:26:59.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those who could play that role were already ones with a large income.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.49,0:27:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Of course. What is your name?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.21,0:27:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's Alain.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:04.69,0:27:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Alain, I completly agree with you. We should pay our MPs.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.99,0:27:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If it's a democracy, it won't be our MPs anymore because it will be us instead
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.52,0:27:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who'll vote the laws. It will be our policemen, our judges, our civil workers.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.21,0:27:20.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the people we need, tha the assembly needs
Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.90,0:27:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do the things it can't do. But Alain, I know it won't be perfect.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.21,0:27:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, there will be possibility for corruption, but drasticly reduced.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.58,0:27:40.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't give up on a system where we would be much more protected
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.36,0:27:44.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against abuse of power and injustice, just because it won't be perfect.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.91,0:27:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, risks of corruption will remain, but you'll have less of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.65,0:27:55.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do realise that right now, those who took the power after the French Revolution...
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.27,0:28:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For me, this has been going on for a long time. You keep on finding them. Since 1789, you find
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.21,0:28:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ultra-rich, the 1%, who decide if it will rain or shine, who decide wars, injustice,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.69,0:28:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have made this unfair right called capitalism. Because it is a right.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.75,0:28:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the right of the owner on the workers. And this is made possible
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.98,0:28:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only because the rich have succeeded. Never before had they been able to in human history.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:20.72,0:28:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You must understant that before, it wasn't grand, you still had abuse of power, but the rich
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.13,0:28:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had to share power before 1789. The rich had to share power with the nobles,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.38,0:28:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the clergy, with the king.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.32,0:28:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You're idealising a bit, I beleive, what was going on before the French Revolution.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.72,0:28:36.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Not at all!
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.50,0:28:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That is that a royalty, that you pointed out earlier, could be a solution.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.43,0:28:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't regret royalty.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:44.58,0:28:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Me neither, me neither. It was a provocation to show you that I am open.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.23,0:28:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- In the same maner, you have taken as example
Dialogue: 0,0:28:51.13,0:28:57.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the swiss peoples' initiative referendum. For me, the swiss system, the way the Swiss live,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:57.50,0:29:02.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the majority of the Swiss, with the power of the actual banks, the role of the banks
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.70,0:29:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the 30's and 40's with Germany...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.02,0:29:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Wasn't honorable.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.86,0:29:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I don't regret that.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.06,0:29:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I don't want to take it as example. Yes, I agree with you.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.64,0:29:09.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But you talked about Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.90,0:29:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes, but I never finished my example. I talked about Switzerland because...
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.98,0:29:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I forgot to tell you that while the French were being destroyed, Alain,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:20.39,0:29:24.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you do well to remind me in this, because I forgot
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.01,0:29:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's important so that you understand why I was talking about Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.59,0:29:31.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While the French were getting their pensions destroyed without any mean to resist it,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.91,0:29:37.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during that time, the same year, last year, the Swiss parlementarians also
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.06,0:29:45.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,voted to degrade the Swiss pensions. In the weeks that followed, the Swiss started
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.65,0:29:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a peoples' initiative referendum that succeeded and they abrogated those laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:52.11,0:29:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pay attention to this, please. I'm not saying that the Swiss are a model, that's not it.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.33,0:30:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like athenian democracy, it's not a model. I say like Castoriadis
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.77,0:30:09.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in the athenian democracy, there is a seed, there is something interesting. I won't take it all.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.66,0:30:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see what I mean? In the case of Switzerland, there are things that disgust me.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.75,0:30:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there are also interesting things. I have discernment, that is
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.97,0:30:27.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I don't throw away the whole swiss example because there are some things I don't appreciate. I sort things,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.03,0:30:31.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I distinguist and say: "Hey, that's good! This I want!" And there I say: "Slavery I don't like,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.72,0:30:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Phallocracy, I'm not interested, brutality, death penalty, I don't want it." However,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.34,0:30:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,desynchronising economical power from political power, Alain, that should
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.98,0:30:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still interest you! Even if you take marxist ideas, or experiences on ideas that Marx had,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.90,0:30:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no one ever succeeded to desynchronise political power
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.63,0:31:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from economical power. Here, they managed it for over 200 years. That's just sexy! At least attractive.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.96,0:31:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well sexy, attractive, I mean...no ? It's not ? You don't think it is?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.18,0:31:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's more sexy than the power of the banks over us at least.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:17.76,0:31:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yes!
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.74,0:31:21.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's still the same families that held the power for 200 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:21.99,0:31:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Not at all! On this, you are wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.84,0:31:29.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I'm not talking about political power, I'm talking about economical persons and finance people.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.70,0:31:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You should let other people talk...
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.04,0:31:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- In Athens, Alain, I insist on this, and maybe I'm wrong, but here
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.84,0:31:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a point that is a fact. We don't have to quibble over this.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.74,0:31:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a fact. Plato, Aristotle and the others complained
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.40,0:31:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all their lives about this government led by the poor. Don't tell me the rich ruled.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.86,0:32:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not true, I won't beleive it. This is stricly facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.55,0:32:03.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- What I'm saying is that you're not questioning the wealth of certain (very few) people
Dialogue: 0,0:32:03.52,0:32:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the poverty of the vast majority.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:06.31,0:32:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Wait. Wealth isn't happiness.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.21,0:32:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's what the rich say. Be poor! Wealth isn't happiness.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.32,0:32:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To me it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:14.30,0:32:19.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's total dogmatism. It's a closed point of view.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:19.73,0:32:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Alain, I'm sure that...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.75,0:32:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- We're not being emphatical here. It's a pure conflict.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.04,0:32:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Just one second, some has been very patient there, sitting in the middle.