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Guten Morgen meine Damen und Herren,
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ich freue mich sehr, dass ich hier bin,
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aber Deutsch ist nicht meine Muttersprache,
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daher werde ich weiter auf englisch sprechen.
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Es ist eine Ehre, hier zu sein.
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So the Chaos Computer Club to me is like family,
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and it is such an honor to be able to speak to everyone here,
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and it ridiculous that they asked me to give the keynote.
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I hope that I am not wasting 3000 collective hours
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of the smartest people of this planet with what I have to say
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in the next 60 minutes.
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I want to start by thanking everyone
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that is in the audience for being here
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and for some specific people,
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I want to call out Laura Poitress, who is this
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woman here, next to the woman with the camera,
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because she produced and edited the videos that we're going to see
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I have been working with her quite a lot
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and she is a very inspirational wonderful artist
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who I love deeply.
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And I'd like to start by playing a video,
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which is part of an art project we're working on,
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where many people are working on,
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and if we could play that first video,
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I think that would be a good way to start this off.
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Fantastic. So, now we have an Idea
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about what my talk will be about, right?
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Just in case that there is any question
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that I was going to change many horses midstream
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this is a location, it's called Bluffdale, Utah.
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And this is one of the largest datacenters
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that we know of the NSA is currently constructing.
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And there is the question of course about what it is they are trying to build,
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why they're building it,
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what exactly they plan to do with the space and
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how they will use the space
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and I am going to talk a bit about this - nice -
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and what I am hoping also to point out is, that this is everyones department.
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So in this case, what we see, is the construction of the actual bluffdale Utah Site.
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So this is the slow process. But there is not anything particular one might object to.
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In this process, it is just construction of a very large building.
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And I am gonna read some adresses now that were passed out
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when Winni, Laura and I did a show at the Withney(sp?):
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2651 Olive Street, St. Louis, Missouri, 63103 United States.
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420 South Grand Los Angeles, California, 90071 United States
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6/11 Folsam Street, San Francisco, California, 94107 United States
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51 Peachtree North-East Atlanta Georgia, 3030 United states
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10 South Cannala Chicago Illinois 60606 United States
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30 East Street South West Washington DC, 20024 United States
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811 10th Ave New York, New York, 10019 United States
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12967 Hollenberg Drive, Richtown
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These addresses are potentially domestic Interception points
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for the NSA in the United States.
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One of them is confirmed accoding to Marc Kline,
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who blew the whistle and discussed the fact
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that the NSA is doing domestic surveillance.
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I and many of the people believe that the purpose of this datacenter is to build
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something to store and process massive interception
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where some of the calculations by bill binnie,
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who was an analyst for the NSA for almost 40 years
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he thinks, that this center will be used to store the information
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for probably somewhere around 100 years.
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And so in theory we might say
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that that's not big deal and we have nothing to worry about.
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I very much want to make sure that we cover in this talk that's going to happen right now
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that this right here is in the back of everyones mind.
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A Datacenter, designed to store things for a 100 years.
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That seems like a reasonable theory for this.
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and if you read the information that is present about it,
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you will in fact see that that seems like it is problably an understatement
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and probably, since there is more than a single facility like this,
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that there is a possibility that the 100 years is just a short version.
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and that's an extremely scary proposition.
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So, part of the reason I want to show you that is
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that I want to lead with that, but I will tell you a quote, which is:
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"nothing strengthens the judgement and quickens the conscience like individual responsibility"
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which is a quote by a feminist known as Elisabeth Stanton.
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This I think is a useful thing when talking about things not being our department.
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Because, what do we have to do with the NSA?
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What do we have to do with this giant datacenter which is being built in bluffdale?
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well, in essence, part of the thing that is so scary,
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that with the internet and with communication systems as they exist today,
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they really isn't a geographical border,
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that really changes what we can and can not care about in the ways that we used to.
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The fact of the matter is that the NSAs interception,
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those interception points, they will carry not only americans data,
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they will carry everyone's data for the internet.
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So, caring about this datacenter is in fact a very serious thing that we need to consider,
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because in fact it does impact everyone.
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But even if we didn't use the internet,
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it impacts the people that we care about in a transitive way.
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So I'm hoping that in the course of the next 15 minutes
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I am able to convice you that these things are your department.
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And I of want to start to talk about what Robin Frankin talked about the last few years.
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Have any one of you seen these talks that they've given
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such like "We Lost the War"-Talk or "How society might collapse"? See a show of hands for that?
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Okay, About half of you.
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I want to say that they talked about this and they said we've know we lost the war,
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the surveillance state war.
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You know, basically, so many people have decided to
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go to the dark side, as it has been called.
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That is working on deep packet inspection, censorship equipment,
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Surveillance equipment, Targeting Information etcetera.
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This is in fact what has happened.
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If you look at the job that pays very well, that people aware of,
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they usually are systems of control types of jobs.
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There are research positions obviously that exists in the world,
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but it pays better to work for Lockheed martin that for a university.
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So people will choose I think for sometimes good reasons
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or for understandable reasons to do these types of tasks
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and sometimes will even moral arguments saying things like
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"because of stuxnet we were able to avoid violence or bombing of a factory".
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Of course the reality is that these things are not used alone,
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they're used together and in concert with bombings of factories.
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So, it's certainly worth mentioning, that these guys,
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Frankin Robb as well as many other people who did not stand up and tell
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the congress about their ideas
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that these people were really on to something.
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And unfortunately, now we actually live in the world
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that they were describing that was coming. And it's an incredibly scary world.
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And in the last few years, I had the misfortune of being targeted
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by a large section of this world. And I can tell you that it's been
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a quite uncomfortable series of days. Just one day after the other
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is the way to take it, or the way to deal with it,
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and this is not a comfortable or easy way to live.
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When Frankin Robb talked about this, they still had some kind of hope in their voice,
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and I think that that was important.
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So I wanted to do was to try to take that hope and to focus on it
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and to try to take it say that and despite the fact that there are these opressive systems
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of control. And despite the fact that we do now live in a surveillance state
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that it may still - I think reasonably so - be possible to resist the surveillance state
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and to turn things around if we wish.
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And I think that there may come a time in which that is not true.
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I don't believe that this time has yet arrived.
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So, Frank wanted me to very much stress this notion that
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we can make this choice about what whe do about our time
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that is this notion of the dark and the light side.
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I personally don't think that this sort of black-and-white, white-hat, black-hat, ethics make any sense
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because I don't define my ethical or moral framework by making comparison black and white 1950 cowboys movies
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and I'd like to say that there's some nuance there.
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But there are some simple things that you can do to decide
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if you are working on something which is oppressive,
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and one of them is to ask yourself if you are working on a system
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that helps to control others or
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if you're working on a system that helps to enable others,
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to have control over their own lives.
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And this is a really simple test.
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If you're working on DPI, that will be deployed on people who do not get a say in it,
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you are probably working for the oppressor.
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It's not guaranteed, because there are many of layers of indirection.
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Bluecoat probably doesn't think of themselves as being a tool in a military dictatorship's toolbox
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but the reality is that when the Assad Gouvernment
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or the Burmis military dictatorship or their eleged free market companies in Bhurma use bluecoat
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which they both do, they have for some time and they will continue to,
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bluecoat is in fact, part of that system of control.
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Now, are they responsible?
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That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that.
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But I do have an answer to wether or not I think they play a role in it.
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And that is that they do.
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What role, that remains to be seen.
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And what I am hopeful about is that some people,
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especially people in this room, have actually made the choice
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that is the opposite of that. They've decided to work
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on systems wthat help enable people to be free.
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When for example we see that Mich Altmann from Noisebridge
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has dedicated his life to teaching people about electronics,
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and to open hardware and free software,
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and we see that he is enabeling people in a positive way.
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and this is something that we as a community I think should really step up
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commending people who do this. Bhanny Hueng (TODO sp?) who builds open hardware,
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he is a hero, when - you can applaud that if you wish -
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[applause]
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the thing is, that I probably can't do it,
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but I wrote list of names of people that inspired me over breakfast one day,
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and it's pretty long, so I'm not gonna read all of it.
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But the same is true for Lady Ada, Christine Corbit(TODO: sp?) and amazing people everywhere
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People who dont have names, who are basically anonymous and
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in their community, but we should look to them, and we should look to them with pride
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and we should look to them with support and mutual aid and solitaridy.
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Because it's not just negative stuff.
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Not everybody in here works for FinFisher.
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And in fact, more people in here work against FinFisher, thanks for that!
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And so, to that end, we can make a choice about what we'd like to do.
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And it is possible to make a living making free software for freedom,
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instead of closed source proprietary malware for cops.
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[applause]
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But there is a cost to that
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so I want to point out something in this next video,
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where I am going to be be silent while it plays unlike the last, and it is a minute long.
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Speaker: Does the NSA routinely intercept american citizen's emails?
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No
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Does the NSA intercept american's cell phone conversations?
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No
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Google Searches?
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No
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Text Messages?
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No
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Amazon.com orders?
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no
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Bank records?
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No
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What judicial consent is required for the NSA to intercept communications and information involving american citizens?
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Within the United States, that would be FBI lead,
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that was a foreign act within the united states, the FBI would still have the lead
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and could work with NSA or other intelligence agencies has authorized.
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But to conduct that kind of collection within the United States you would have to go through a court order,
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and the court would have to authorize it.
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We're not authorized to do it nor do we do it.
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(JA) Well, I think you can all understand the subtext here, which is
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that I am protected and you are not.
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I bet that makes you feel really great.
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So that datacenter we were looking at,
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what he just testified in front of congress about,
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that was General Alexander, he is the most powerful person in the world,
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probably even more powerful than the president of the United States,
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or any leader of any other country.
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He controls the intelligence structure for the entire NSA and he has ties to the rest of the intelligence community as well.
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So what he is basically saying is, that, if there is an american - hypothetically in america - they'd probably be fine.
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Which does't really make me feel good, because
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there are seven billion people on this planet.
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Just a few of them are americans, why should the be treated specially in this regard?
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So that giant datacenter that we see, it's for all of you
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and it's also for me, because despite the fact that I am an american,
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being associated with Wikileaks is like, well, it's not a good time in America.
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So, there is a thing to be said here, which is, that,
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that guy is a fuckin' liar, first of all.
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Because we know for a fact...
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[applause]
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from Marc Kline,
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that the NSA was in fact doing dragnet-surveillance of all of those things.
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So straight up, this guy is a liar.
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But then on top of being a liar, which is bad engough in this context,
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he doesn't even bother to pretend that you have any value at all.
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And that you have rights.
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And that your privacy is important and your human dignity matters,
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becuase of where you happened to be born and
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which flag he images you flying.
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that to me is very depressing and I feel
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like it actually gives the rest of humanity that lives in america a very bad name.
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Anbd so I am very sorry for that.
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But I want to talk about some other things, that tie together with that.
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because when we just think about massive surveillance and isolation,
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we will have quite a problem, quite a series of problems in fact,
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so let's talk about some things that all have commonality with the surveillance state.
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First of all: data retention and retro-active policing which is clearly a human rights violation in Europe.
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It's clearly the case that this type of activity taking place creates suspects out of everyone.
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and being a suspect is to already not be free in my experience.
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And in fact in the 1800s there was a british author who wrote
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"to be free from suspicion is the one of the first freedoms that is important for being free in the rest of your life".
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when you're followed around, when you're being investigated, because of the whim of someone,
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this is the beginning of the end of your freedom.
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So, it seems that data retention is the beginning of the end of many of our freedoms in bulk, and that is a very scary thing. (TODO: TIMING)
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And when people do retro-active policing, when they apply that lack of freedom in a very specific way,
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and when they take these actions,
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they depends, of course, on which state you happen to be in, which fiber optic cables happend to be in use when your bits were crossing it,
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but how does this actually play out?
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It depends, right?
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And it depends in a very specific sense.
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So for example, drone killings, and I am not just talking about Ironware Lockies(TODO sp?) innocent 16-yearold Son in Jemen,
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but drones killings of thousands of people. The targeting information is fed
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to the CIA and to other groups from surveillance listening points
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from intelligence factories. So there is a direct relationship
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between surveillance and support of straight-up murder.
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That is something which sounds scary, what makes it even scarier is the way those
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drone killings are carried out is that the central comittee, who gets to decide who lives and dies
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or obamas assasination star chamber, that central committee which sounds a lot to me
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a lot like some of the soviet redaract I remember from my childhood
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that central comittee decides non-democratically who gets to be assasinated.
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and it is just a hop or two away from surveillance.
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So when you assist a surveillance state you are literally helping to kill fucking children.
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That is something that doesn't help me sleep at night.
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and you can choose not to be part of that; almost every person here has made that choice.
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but if you're on the fence I guess you can guess what I suggest you go.
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But there are some more ties.
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Because let's say drone killing just seem a little bit too far off.
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Right? Well, in Uganda, there has been a proposal for some time now,
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which seems to be almost pushed back, but not quite,
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where they wish to make a death sentence for being a homosexual,
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where aggrevated homosexuality is a crime. I think that is where you continue to flip your wrist.
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I am not quite sure what aggrevated homosexuality means.
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But this basic notion that someone would be forced to report on you or they would also go to prison,
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this is something which surveillance will impact greatly and it will make a huge difference.
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Of course, we can talk about wider things, such as the chinese suppression of the tibetan people,
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we can talk about police backdoors and so-called lawful interception malware
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we can talk about wars on agression in irak and afghanistan,
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the surveillance state touches everything,
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and it is more than that.
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It is the fact that the surveillance state is part of the system of control
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that causes much suffering. It may also bring some good things
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into this world, but with the secrecy,
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the surveillance state becomes totally unaccountable.
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So, we can look in some other things that are quite concerning.
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We can see that there are ties that are not as obvious.
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The military trials of political prisoners in Egypt,
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the genocide of the syrian people right now,
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the british and swedish justice regarding Julian Assange,
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the right-wing nazi-sympathisers here in germany,
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that gave murdering nazis passports and help
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and are still not held to account,
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the oppresioning crackdown on wikileaks related or WL-tainted people,
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companies that sell equipment to brutal dictatorships and authoritarian regimes,
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for both surveillance or censorships, sometimes both
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the reality is that secret police and spying agencies
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actually change our ability to govern ourselves freely.
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And they do it in such a way that it is not obvious,
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and it is seemingly impossible to resist.
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Because these things itself are secret, it becomes extremely difficult for us to know
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where to begin resisting.
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Add it's core, in the United States, where this has gone,
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is that there are secret laws, with secret interpretations, and a total lack of accountability.
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And fundamentally, what these things are, is that they are oppressive, vanguard approaches,
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to authoritanianism, they are insultingly paternalistic and allegedly above the law.
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If you ever had the opportunity to meet the people that work in these intelligence agencies that are still there,
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some of them are quite good, they're fundamentally awesome people.
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But then, when it comes to their job, they're in a pretty terrible place.
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That is if they wish to keep their job they are not really free to dissent.
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If we look at people, for example like Bill Binnie or Thomas Drake, what we see is
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that when you dissent, you'll get crushed.
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Your Family Life will be ruined,
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there are huge costs to telling the truth.
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And there are huge costs to asking for a more just system.
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Bill Binnie actually really blew my mind in a peticular way.
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I thought surely a way working for the NSA for 40 years, we wouldn't have a lot in comon.
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But it turns out, that he said to me that he thought that the spying was actually an immoral things,
325
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but that maybe during the cold war it was a neccessary evil.
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That is, he thought that maybe they could prevent total atomic warfare.
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And at the same time he recognised that it was not the right thing to spy on people.
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that this should not be the end in itself.
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I was really touched by that, because
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usually it is the case that someone would say
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"except for americans. you can spy on everyone but not on americans."
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And for him the turning point, as i understand it, was that he decided that it was wrong to spy on everybody.
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And when they decided to spy on americans, it was clear
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that they couldn't be trusted to spy even on any single person
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and to do it in a way which would be producing justice.
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That was very surprising for me. It actually made me change my mind about the people who might work for the NSA.
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but then it turns out that he suffered a great deal as a result of having that opinion.
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So maybe it doesn't change my mind that much about the people who are still there.
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But, fundamentally, human rights, in theory, should be something that we can work for collectively as a human race.
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As a group of people.
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And yet it doesn't really seem that is, what is happening.
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There is a lot of rhetoric about it.
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But when you kill hundreds of thousands of people it is very difficult
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to talk about the benefits of technologies in a way that doesn't seem like grouping.
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So, it happens that we develop these psychological defenses to it, so
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half of the people I that i have met and discussed this with,
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when this is the first time they considered the surveillance state,
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they talk about it in terms of their initial reaction where they've put it in five minuts of thought, and they say
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"well, it doesn't concern me".
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Or "it won't impact me. In fact the only people who are getting it,
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are people who deserve it."
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you know they are under a legitimate investigation."
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not actually sure, what a legitimate investigation is,
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when you can't hold people to account when there are secret laws, the rule
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by-law and the rule of-law is not the same thing. Rule-by-drecree doesn't mean it is just, simply because it is written down,
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especially if the interpretation is secret.
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So, After people recognise - maybe - that it may impact them,
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there is a fantastic set of things that takes place,
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and one of them is that people will try to minimize their role in it,
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saying lines like "well, it won't be possible to sort me out or find me in this massive data set"
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or "even if I do stand down, nothing will happen to me".
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And then, eventually, if they happen to be as unlucky as I have been in the last few years,
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they'll say something along the lines of "well, the system works and no injustice will occur, because this state is benign."
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There are not many people who I met who have gotten to that stage who actually continue to think that for that long.
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it might be worth considering that perhaps we have to get to that point,
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to recognize that there is great foldey in that set of thougts and plan to thinking that.
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It might be the case that the surveillance state that exists
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in fact is negative even if we do not yet understand fully its negative effects.
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So, you see this also as social defense in groups,
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as a reaction, I think probably the split between wikileaks and openleaks is the greatest
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example of the fact that groups, even effective groups, will split and then have bad blood
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and then in fact they will deliver utter failure, and it is very sad, tragic even,
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and this kind of stuff is something which, even trying to resist,
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that we aren't quite aware how these types of things happen.
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History shows us certain ways how these kinds of splits might occur.
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But it isn't the case that we fully groked this historical lessons
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so it is quite sad that we focus so much of our energy on degrading things,
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like something does a great thing and someone sais "Ah yes, but this one thing"
379
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and the discussion becomes about this one thing.
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I think in fact it might make sense to focus on the good things
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as well, it is true that sometimes people produce free hardware but it has one binary BLOB
382
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that does not mean that we should not thank this person and give him credit,
383
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in fact to really praise them for putting so much effort to make everything as open as possible
384
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and it's too bad one thing is not open, but maybe we could put in some effort to open up and free that one thing.
385
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It is basically the same statement, but the way it is stated allows us to think of it in being in it together.
386
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And it helps to keep people together, and it helps to keep people motivated to work together in fact.
387
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I think, it is a useful idea, to try to take this tact.
388
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We also have these psyhcological defenses about the physical world, which I personally have experienced quite a lot.
389
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For example, that notion that warrants are required to enter your house.
390
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Your physical location is somehow protected is a very quite notion I certainly don't believe that anymore.
391
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it is a little sad, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
392
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In the United States, there is a thing called the Patriot Act,
393
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and section 2.15 of the Patriot act essentially sais
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"Something" and it's interpreted completely differently.
395
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that is there is a secret interpretation of section 2.15 of the Patriot Act,
396
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and if you ask Bill Binnie about this, what he would say is that everything is fair game.
397
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That is to say, regardless what you thought, the constitution said
398
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(regardless what you think the united nations declaration of human right sais)
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that's not what is really going on.
400
00:26:09,321 --> 00:26:13,125
And so, this defense that the people have, they're journalist, they're protected,
401
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:16,357
no one will do anything to them, it's nonsense.
402
00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:21,065
every journalist in the United States that is subject to the warrantless wiretapping's tentacles,
403
00:26:21,065 --> 00:26:24,350
is being surveilled, regardless of the journalistic protections.
404
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:29,538
Every member of congress, everybody in this room, probably especially everyone in this room.
405
00:26:31,123 --> 00:26:34,820
And of course people will say "You know, don't cross the border with anything".
406
00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:38,976
That's so stupid, so for example, when I cross the border with a telephone,
407
00:26:38,976 --> 00:26:43,464
I am actually not allowed to tell you what happened to my telephones. And obviously,
408
00:26:43,464 --> 00:26:45,720
it was a mistake to cross the border with a telephone,
409
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,461
it wasn't so much of a mistake, because the telephone connects to the telephone system,
410
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and every phone number in that phone had been used to make or receive calls,
411
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so it's not like the data wasn't already in the hands of the oppressor.
412
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It was in fact the case that it was just slightly better indexed.
413
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But it also had some extra numbers in there, just for fun.
414
00:27:07,004 --> 00:27:09,470
I mean, if you're going to have a surveillance state,
415
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:12,209
that is going to get people for guilt for association,
416
00:27:12,209 --> 00:27:15,615
you might want to make sure that there are a few jerks in your phonebook, right?
417
00:27:22,121 --> 00:27:26,474
But the reality is, well, I can cross the border without anything of consequence
418
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that is, me deciding to become subdued, and it is me, deciding to except the oppression.
419
00:27:31,571 --> 00:27:34,015
And everyone here can make that choice,
420
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But I say "Fuck that! That is not a choice we should make!"
421
00:27:36,384 --> 00:27:40,483
That's in fact a coping mechanism, and these kinds of coping mechanisms
422
00:27:40,483 --> 00:27:45,665
are a responsive a lack of agency, a response of total helplessness.
423
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For example, people run throigh their mind, "How will I eat, How will I feed my children"
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"How will I educate them if I don't play along, if I don't comply?"
425
00:27:53,301 --> 00:27:55,032
They'll make my life hell".
426
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Part of the problem here, and it is funny to say it here in Europe,
427
00:27:58,232 --> 00:27:59,875
becuase it has a much different context,
428
00:27:59,875 --> 00:28:01,985
part of the problem here is the state.
429
00:28:01,985 --> 00:28:06,213
When the state has the power make you make those kinds of thoughts appear in your head,
430
00:28:06,213 --> 00:28:10,981
and it allows you to create that, and make those choices, we become less free.
431
00:28:12,735 --> 00:28:17,632
So, maybe, recognizing those coping mechanisms and trying to progress to the next one,
432
00:28:17,632 --> 00:28:20,724
trying to progress to the next thought could be helpful.
433
00:28:20,724 --> 00:28:21,967
I think that it is helpful.
434
00:28:21,967 --> 00:28:26,550
For me, and what I have tried to do is that I have tried to recognize that
435
00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:29,721
I am trying to cope with a situation that is impossible to cope with at times.
436
00:28:29,721 --> 00:28:36,154
there is really nothing quite going your night like feeling an entire State is stepping on your throat.
437
00:28:36,893 --> 00:28:39,801
It is not even great at talking about on parties.
438
00:28:39,801 --> 00:28:42,642
I mean, there is not really much that is good about it.
439
00:28:42,642 --> 00:28:48,401
But, there is some good that can come of it. And that is to show other people that it is not total.
440
00:28:48,401 --> 00:28:52,679
That it does not nearly end in tears. I mean, It might, but it doiesn't every single day.
441
00:28:52,679 --> 00:28:55,097
You have to choose how this goes.
442
00:28:55,097 --> 00:28:58,115
I had the oppoertunity to meet the Dalai Lama in India,
443
00:28:58,115 --> 00:29:01,868
about two weeks ago, and to me, the tibetan people who had escaped from tibet
444
00:29:01,868 --> 00:29:06,241
under the opperssive chinese rule, people who had been shot, their stomachs ripped out,
445
00:29:06,241 --> 00:29:12,059
there skull cracked open, their teeth knocked out, their families jailed, you name it, they experienced it.
446
00:29:12,059 --> 00:29:17,391
And I realized, I had no problems. By comparison especially, but I recognized something:
447
00:29:17,391 --> 00:29:23,092
these are the friendlies, niciest people you can imagine. I mean, it is really quite a touching thing,
448
00:29:23,092 --> 00:29:28,405
despite the fact, that about a hundred years ago they were a brutal theocracy, they certainly have learned since then.
449
00:29:28,405 --> 00:29:33,331
And it is the case, that we can decide how it is we cope with these things.
450
00:29:33,331 --> 00:29:39,323
We can become increasingly cold and atomized, we can become destroyed, we can undermine our communities,
451
00:29:39,323 --> 00:29:45,139
we can work against our own interests in the long run or we can try to find joy in the life we have,
452
00:29:45,139 --> 00:29:51,421
and we can try to have a better world than the one we have just come from, that we have experienced.
453
00:29:51,421 --> 00:29:57,830
When I look at Bill Binny and Thomas Drake and Justelin Radcliife and john Quircue(sp?),
454
00:29:57,830 --> 99:59:59,999
who are some amazing whislteblowers in the United States
455
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and three of them are in fact in the audience here and have a talk later that you should attend.
456
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That is the best, I think, at the congress.
457
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And I'm including this talk.
458
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
These guys and Jessalyn are amazing, and I recommend that you hear their story.
459
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because they will be able to tell you about what it is like
460
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to stand up for the right things.
461
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And to do it in the most straightforward way possible, exactly by the book:
462
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they basically took a decade working through the system itself,
463
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
only to find out that the system itself isn't working to take care
464
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
of the problems it is supposed to take care of.
465
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So this is a guy who, in my opinion, went through every possible hoop that I wouldn't even have bothered to jump through.
466
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But he proved to me that I wouldn't bother for a good reason.
467
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I mean, it does not work out well.
468
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And there is something to be said about this, but their story,
469
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I can't do justice by talking about it.
470
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Just the same way that I can't do justice for the story of Bradley Manning.
471
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I can't do justice to the story of Julian and what he is facing right now.
472
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But what I can say about these things is if you compare and contrast them with Robert Bales,
473
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
the alleged Kandahar massacre-er, I guess you could say, is that when you things in service of the state,
474
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
even if it is killing, allegedly, twenty Afghanis, they will whisk you away, give you time for your family to move and
475
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
instead of in the case of Binny having a gun to his head while he's taking a shower.
476
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
They just make sure to take him to the general population of Leavenworth right away.
477
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Compare that with Manning, for example, who instead spent, you know, months in being tortured in Quantico
478
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
before moving to the general population of Leavenworth.
479
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So there's something to be said about these kinds of examples that have come before.
480
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And I think what it is, is that there are people who will have a very hard path when they choose this path.
481
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It is worth choosing that harder path.
482
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Bill and Thomas and Jessalyn have worked very hard on trying to show the world that in fact
483
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it is not completely worth giving up on.
484
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But it is not an easy task to go through.
485
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I was talking with Thomas about what the impact has been on his family. It is clear to me that the state intended for that hardship as one of their tactics.
486
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the return is that it used to be that people would think that me or someone up here talking about the surveillance state, talking about the Utah Data Center that we were completely fucking crazy.
487
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But now that's not the point, no one thinks that anymore. Now we understand that the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program is real.
488
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We understand that the data center is there to spy on all of us.
489
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We are no longer wheeling from that fact, we are no longer denying it. That is the reality.
490
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It is because of the things that they have done that that is the case.
491
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It's because of the bravery that they have had in their hearts and the sufferance they have endured.
492
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And the point is not to make it a pitty-party for them and the point is not to say that anonymity is not important.
493
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It is simply that anonymity in itself is not enough. It takes more than that.
494
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Anonymity will buy you time but it will not buy everyone else justice.
495
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It certainly won't even buy them justice and it wouldn't have helped them anyway because in the long run
496
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it's easy with a total surveillance state to try to deanonymize people.
497
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In fact I think it would be quite easy to deanonymize almost anyone in a total surveillance state.
498
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because our behavioural patterns would give us up, our writing will give us up.
499
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In theory the things that I've said are not probably new to anyone here.
500
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And you often hear that as a tactic for dismissal:
501
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
well, it's nothing new, it's nothing special there.
502
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And I hear that and I'd like to raise you a please stop [missing] talking.
503
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because it is true that some of these things are not new.
504
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the reality is that we need to actually do something about it, regardless of how long we've known that it is wrong.
505
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So there are things that we can in fact do. And it is worth mentioning that this is not just happening to people that are whistleblowers or associated with the most dangerous people on the internet or anonymity or something like that.
506
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
This happens to regular people.
507
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And I will tell you briefly for about two minutes an example of this.
508
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It's a very personal example which I sort of have debating about whether or not I was going to mention.
509
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And I think I'll mention it, just because I think that it is important.
510
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In the United States, probably not surprising to the most people here, I have a mother. And my mother... I know, I know.
511
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But my mother and I are not particularly close and unfortunately for her, she's quite mentally ill.
512
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And it's a very sad story and her life is quite tragic. More tragic than any person that I've mentioned so far.
513
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But what is most tragic about her is that in the last two years, about the time that my harrassment from the United States government started but probably not related, she was arrested and jailed.
514
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And the state broke basically every law that you can imagine in arresting her, including breaking into her house without a warrant for arrest or for search.
515
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Despite the fact that she was arrested under totally bogus circumstances and despite the fact that her life has been utterly destroyed, where her house has been taken and her property has been taken from her.
516
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And she has literally nothing left.
517
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
She was forcibly committed to a mental institution.
518
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And as a result they decided that they can hold her for three years without a trial.
519
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Now being mentally ill is not in itself a crime but because she was arrested for something else that is allegedly a crime, this means that they can keep her until she's competent(?).
520
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Thus, effectively criminalizing insanity. Which is too bad, she is legitimately mentally ill and could use help.
521
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the way that they decided to help her was by destroying her life such that when she gets off on the charges that she faces, she'll have nothing to return to.
522
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So these are the effects of a totalitarian society that goes after Bill Binny, Thomas Drake, Jessalyn Radcliffe, Bradley Manning, Julian Assange and myself.
523
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And she told me and though she is quite insane it's difficult to know if it is true that she was interrogated twice about me and WikiLeaks.
524
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Once before she was being treated and then once after she had been forcibly injected with anti-psychotic medicines.
525
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Now, that's a pretty upsetting thing to say the least.
526
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the most upsetting part is I don't know if it's her crazy ramblings because she is quite crazy or if it's true.
527
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the important part is that if we just take it as it seems, which that this is a person which has fallen on hard times.
528
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What we can take from this is that this is everybody's problem.
529
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I mean it's also technically my problem but the important part here is to recognize that she is what is happening to everyday regular people in American society.
530
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And that's a really upsetting reality, to have that happen.
531
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, what can we do about these things?
532
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Right? I mean, if you're still not convinced that this is what happens to regular people and that you will skate(?) by just fine, I don't know what I could say really to convince you.
533
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But I suppose I could say to look to the children who have been killed by drones who were also innocent, and see what kind of justice that they have.
534
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But it seems to me that rather we have to fight against things.
535
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But we have to do more than just fighting against them.
536
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because merely fighting against things becomes corrosive.
537
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And my mother's situation, fighting against her unjust imprisonment, the same for Bradley Manning, the same for Assange, the same for all the people that have been unjustly harrassed or worse,
538
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that burns you out and it destroys your life.
539
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And it destroys your ability to feel hope, to have fun, to be able to relax.
540
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I can't even remember the last time that I did not go to sleep wondering if I would wake up with a gun in my mouth when living in the United States.
541
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because that's the kind of world that we live in now.
542
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And maybe you're lucky and you don't live in that world.
543
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But the reality is that lots of people do live in that world.
544
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And whether or not they deserve it, there's something to be said about people who are not arrested who have to worry about that kind of stuff.
545
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Maybe that's not the world we want to live in.
546
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, what if instead we tried to not just fight against things but to build alternatives.
547
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And specifically to try to build sustainable alternatives.
548
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And to come to terms with the fact that we are losing our democracies around the world.
549
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And that we are losing our agency.
550
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We are increasingly depressed about the kind of democratic oversight that we have.
551
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And feeling like we don't have representation in our respective parliaments and congresses.