A: Hello Tumblr, uh we are Glitter Politic, coming to you live
M: Yeahhh
M: I'm Majestic
A: I'm Ashley
A: We brought whiskey
M: And fisting gloves
A: Yes. Um, we're gonna talk to you today about um, Identity Politics
A: There's some busted shit going on on the internet right now
A: and um, we're upset.
M: So we're drinking our feelings, and talking about our feelings
M: Which is important
A: Which is what we do
A & M: We're talkers. Yeah.
A: So, yeah, maybe we'll just launch right in. Um, so riotsnotdiets
A: posted a response to an anonymous` question about the definition of queer
A: we thought that what she had to say was great, um, and like she seems
A: quite knowledgeable about queer in general. And uh,
A: And then there was a shit storm. Of people being kind of mean, and pretty horrible to her
M: We didn't really - well to be honest we didn't really read them
A: It's pretty hard to follow
M: Yeah, and I just feel like, uh well Ashley doesn't really understand the internet
M: Which is really, adorable, but also uh, we also just don't have the energy
M: to read things that are really like policing and like mean spirited
M: and like, I just like, I read one of those things and it just made my heart so sad
M: Like, I have enough sadness in my heart, so I like, had to click close
A: Walk away!
M: Walk Away!
M: Okay um, so the first thing we wanna talk about is like why the need to identify?
M: Like, why are identity politics like queer important? do you wanna talk about that?
A: Yeah. Um I think that identity politics, or just identities in general
A: have a really long history of struggle. Are rooted in a history of struggle.
A: The fact that we can have identites to cling to at all is because people have
A: for generations, done so much work to like, even allow us to have those
A: thought patterns. You know? Um to make safe-safer spaces for certain people to have identities
M: In a contemporary context, I would just like to say that fat activism is an example of
M: identity politics, or fat acceptance.
A: Or feminism, or...
M: Well yeah, but that's just one that's really present on tumblr, so yeah.
A: Yeah, like part of that struggle is the like need to reform social and political systems
A: that are inherently oppressive to certain people.
A: That's partially why we have identities, and also because we need to find community
A: And there's like a really deep need for community when you come from a marginalized group
A: Or multiple marginalized groups, you know?
A: And so yeah, we're searching for people who like have similar experiences to us
A: And we're searching for people who look like us
A: and we are searching for people we can see ourselves in
A: so those are some of the reasons why identities are really important to people
A: and why we start to get really kind of freaked out when that gets called into question
A: So I just want to like honor that and acknowledge that that's like
A: a reality for people, including us.
M: Yeah, for sure.
M: Um, so like to add on to that one thing I would say is that the problem with that
M: Is that when we build movements based on identity politics, or political identities
M: to get rights for certain individuals, that means that these rights are only for certain individuals
M: So inherently, this excludes people
M: I think that, that has it's place but I also think that it does stand in the way of really
M: transformational social chance in the sense that we aren't able anymore to
M: connect really, across difference
M: I find as a queer person that my politics are really alienating sometimes
M: and um, I think that it's like really important to look at the ways that our identity politics
M: As radical and revolutionary as they may seem
M: May be limited by things like, uh, their inability to connect to other people
M: And so yeah. Um, we took notes. I can't read my writing.
A: (laughs)
M: Yeah, I can't read that at all
A: Yeah so I think basically when we start to create new, or what feel like radical identity categories
A: I know for myself, like, femme was one that was really important to me
A: and still is, but like, in it's formation was like, really consuming
A: and I was like, building femme community in Victoria, and trying to work shit out
A: and within that, what ended up happening was the question kept coming up:
A: Like, who is allowed to be here?
A: Who do we define as femme? What does this mean?
A: And we were never able to comfortably answer that question.
A: It always felt really, uncomfortable, and wrong actually to try to say who can and can't come in.
A: But there was a need to ask the question, and so I think that reflects
A: that when we are defining ourselves, what we are doing is like, containing our identities
A: into like, very sort of small, limited, fixed, restrictive places
A: And we're looking outside of them and defining ourselves against what we are not
M: I have a really good analogy for this actually. The way that I like to think about identity politics
M: And queer is part of this for sure, is like a shelf. A shelf with a bunch of containers on it.
M: So there's all these different containers, and each container contains a different identity politic
M: And in that identity politic, those people feel really great, but like
M: It's like not permeable for people on the outside, and also, we can't move off of the shelf.
M: So uh, I don't know.
A: Yeah. So yes, I guess like these containers
A: or I guess another way of looking at it is building fences
A: around our identities. Um, it's like, it can be really damaging, right?
A: Because as soon as you start to build a sense of self, you are simultaneously
A: building a sense of other as well. and so the question is then, who is that other?
M: And in this case it was riotsnotdiets.
A: Yeah, and because -
M: You're not an other baby. Not to us.
Ashley: Not to us. Yeah. People were percieving riotsnotdiets as
A: a "straight girl"
M: heteronormative
A: a heteronomative straight girl, appropriating queer experience
A: As those there is one queer experience. A uniform, universal queer experience
A: to be appropriated in the first place
M: Which is kind of inherently against what queer means, as a definition
M: Like, by definition queer is really radical, it's shifting, it's fluid there is so much in it
M: and there is room for everybody. But when it's brought into an
M: identity politic, automatically people are like excluding other people
M: and like, policing other people and telling them that like, they can't be a part of it.
M: Which is really interesting.
A: So yeah, so, let's like talk about fences a little bit.
M: Yeah!
A: Um a friend of mine was telling us the other night about this municipality in Quebec
A: Where she is from. That this sort of particularly wealthy community
A: I guess? You know, decided to build a fence around their municipality.
A: Um and they had a lot of greenspace, and within that greenspace - okay so
A: the fence that they built was like this dinky, kind of like pathetic
A: like knee high fence
M: Like it existed as a symbol
A: As a symbol. Yeah, it was really innefectual for anything other than that.
A: But what it did was it said, these people belong inside this municipality
A: And those who are outside do not belong inside.
A: Um, and so within this green space there were these kind of cops I guess
A: This like beautiful park right, and these cops would drive around on golf carts
A: and be um, chasing people out who didn't belong there
A: if they weren't from the municipality.
M: Yeah, and to add to that, one of our really wonderful friends
M: uh, came over today for coffee and said this really lovely thing
M: "fences are a despicable thing if you really think about it"
M: because they are markers of property. And when you think about how you look around and you
M: See fences everywhere. And what they mean is really intense if you um, are somebody who
M: is invested in radical politics and doesn't really like capitalism
M: And when you take it into an analysis of your community, or your identities
M: like it's really interesting how our fences, we build fences, and our identities become our property
M: And we believe that we can chase people around in golf carts like cops
M: And like, tell them that they can't be in our green space.
M: I think that's really interesting, and also sad
M: And I think that we need to be more aware and reflexive about the ways
M: That we do that, and how damaging that is.
A: And like thinking about the reasons why we do that right?
A: I think part of it is because we are afraid. I think we are really afraid
A: of people getting inside, and like, depoliticizing the movement
A: or like, ruining everything we've built for ourselves.
A: And then the other part of it that like, we want power.
A: Like people are seeking power and what that looks like in this context
A: and in many contexts, is a power over
A: Um, and when it's about , I want empowerment or strength
A: To like live my life the way that I need to and feel free, often it gets turned into
A: this control and like, authority, I suppose.
M: Yeah! And I think that also historically identitiy politics have been
M: to access, like certain kinds of privilege right? like the state will only give concessions
M: to certain people, uh, certain groups of people.
M: An example of that is like, the gay marriage thing in Canada, and that in the United States
M: You couldn't ever open that all up to everybody, what would happen?
M: Well it'd be amazing obviously, for like anybody to have access to the rights of marriage
M: but it's like obviously not going to happen.
M: Um, and another part of that is that this idea of normativity
M: is really problematic in queer communities because
M: I think that queer has this potential to be really bad ass
M: I think that it's important to remember that we really need to be looking at the ways in which
M: Nobody exists outside of like the ways that we are produced as subjects in this world
M: and like I think that often we think that are not somehow implicated in
M: white supremacy, or like racism, or capitalism, or patriarcy
M: or being a misogynist, or policing other people
A: or being transphobic
M: or being transphobic! or whatever. I think it's really important to remember you
M: Are super implicated in that
M: We are super implicated in that, and in these political identities however radical they may seem
M: Um, and that also, before what I was saying is that these identities
M: And the way that we are taking them up are really embedded in the ways
M: in which capitalism organizes our lives. And I think that when you take this
M: into a context of fences and policing and borders
M: You can see how queer communities politice one another just like the state polices us
M: And we create our counter norms, but are they really that radical?
M: I don't know. There is a lot to think about. And I hope that we were articulate.
M: I just think that there needs to be more critical thought around this.
A: And a little bit more gentleness, I think.
M: Gentleness! Fuck! Let's just hug instead. Kay?
M: Because you can't be tough without also being tender.
A: So, oh yeah. This is our thing now.
M: This is our new power symbol. For AfroTitty.
A: (laughs) Okay, yes this is Glitter Politic, signing off. Thanks for listening.