0:00:02.763,0:00:07.082 A: Hello Tumblr, uh we are Glitter Politic, coming to you live 0:00:07.082,0:00:07.885 M: Yeahhh 0:00:07.932,0:00:09.262 M: I'm Majestic 0:00:09.262,0:00:10.609 A: I'm Ashley 0:00:11.209,0:00:13.402 A: We brought whiskey 0:00:13.494,0:00:14.835 M: And fisting gloves 0:00:15.020,0:00:19.844 A: Yes. Um, we're gonna talk to you today about um, Identity Politics 0:00:19.936,0:00:24.079 A: There's some busted shit going on on the internet right now 0:00:24.079,0:00:26.912 A: and um, we're upset. 0:00:26.912,0:00:30.675 M: So we're drinking our feelings, and talking about our feelings 0:00:30.675,0:00:32.254 M: Which is important 0:00:32.254,0:00:33.789 A: Which is what we do 0:00:33.835,0:00:35.225 A & M: We're talkers. Yeah. 0:00:35.225,0:00:41.819 A: So, yeah, maybe we'll just launch right in. Um, so riotsnotdiets 0:00:41.819,0:00:48.414 A: posted a response to an anonymous` question about the definition of queer 0:00:48.414,0:00:56.218 A: we thought that what she had to say was great, um, and like she seems 0:00:56.218,0:01:01.244 A: quite knowledgeable about queer in general. And uh, 0:01:01.244,0:01:08.336 A: And then there was a shit storm. Of people being kind of mean, and pretty horrible to her 0:01:08.336,0:01:11.964 M: We didn't really - well to be honest we didn't really read them 0:01:11.964,0:01:13.169 A: It's pretty hard to follow 0:01:13.169,0:01:16.278 M: Yeah, and I just feel like, uh well Ashley doesn't really understand the internet 0:01:16.278,0:01:22.361 M: Which is really, adorable, but also uh, we also just don't have the energy 0:01:22.361,0:01:26.959 M: to read things that are really like policing and like mean spirited 0:01:26.959,0:01:31.463 M: and like, I just like, I read one of those things and it just made my heart so sad 0:01:31.463,0:01:35.364 M: Like, I have enough sadness in my heart, so I like, had to click close 0:01:35.364,0:01:36.525 A: Walk away! 0:01:36.525,0:01:38.151 M: Walk Away! 0:01:38.151,0:01:43.956 M: Okay um, so the first thing we wanna talk about is like why the need to identify? 0:01:43.956,0:01:50.736 M: Like, why are identity politics like queer important? do you wanna talk about that? 0:01:50.736,0:01:56.092 A: Yeah. Um I think that identity politics, or just identities in general 0:01:56.092,0:02:00.953 A: have a really long history of struggle. Are rooted in a history of struggle. 0:02:00.953,0:02:09.544 A: The fact that we can have identites to cling to at all is because people have 0:02:09.544,0:02:14.653 A: for generations, done so much work to like, even allow us to have those 0:02:14.653,0:02:21.851 A: thought patterns. You know? Um to make safe-safer spaces for certain people to have identities 0:02:21.851,0:02:27.470 M: In a contemporary context, I would just like to say that fat activism is an example of 0:02:27.470,0:02:30.396 M: identity politics, or fat acceptance. 0:02:30.396,0:02:32.811 A: Or feminism, or... 0:02:32.811,0:02:35.458 M: Well yeah, but that's just one that's really present on tumblr, so yeah. 0:02:35.458,0:02:45.628 A: Yeah, like part of that struggle is the like need to reform social and political systems 0:02:45.628,0:02:47.625 A: that are inherently oppressive to certain people. 0:02:47.625,0:02:55.009 A: That's partially why we have identities, and also because we need to find community 0:02:55.009,0:03:00.210 A: And there's like a really deep need for community when you come from a marginalized group 0:03:00.210,0:03:02.950 A: Or multiple marginalized groups, you know? 0:03:02.950,0:03:07.687 A: And so yeah, we're searching for people who like have similar experiences to us 0:03:07.687,0:03:10.241 A: And we're searching for people who look like us 0:03:10.241,0:03:14.096 A: and we are searching for people we can see ourselves in 0:03:14.096,0:03:18.415 A: so those are some of the reasons why identities are really important to people 0:03:18.415,0:03:22.919 A: and why we start to get really kind of freaked out when that gets called into question 0:03:22.919,0:03:25.752 A: So I just want to like honor that and acknowledge that that's like 0:03:25.752,0:03:27.749 A: a reality for people, including us. 0:03:27.749,0:03:29.653 M: Yeah, for sure. 0:03:29.653,0:03:34.436 M: Um, so like to add on to that one thing I would say is that the problem with that 0:03:34.436,0:03:38.941 M: Is that when we build movements based on identity politics, or political identities 0:03:38.941,0:03:45.117 M: to get rights for certain individuals, that means that these rights are only for certain individuals 0:03:45.117,0:03:48.972 M: So inherently, this excludes people 0:03:48.972,0:03:55.148 M: I think that, that has it's place but I also think that it does stand in the way of really 0:03:55.148,0:03:58.167 M: transformational social chance in the sense that we aren't able anymore to 0:03:58.167,0:04:00.303 M: connect really, across difference 0:04:00.303,0:04:04.715 M: I find as a queer person that my politics are really alienating sometimes 0:04:04.715,0:04:10.102 M: and um, I think that it's like really important to look at the ways that our identity politics 0:04:10.102,0:04:12.981 M: As radical and revolutionary as they may seem 0:04:12.981,0:04:17.115 M: May be limited by things like, uh, their inability to connect to other people 0:04:17.115,0:04:23.477 M: And so yeah. Um, we took notes. I can't read my writing. 0:04:23.477,0:04:25.660 A: (laughs) 0:04:25.660,0:04:27.285 M: Yeah, I can't read that at all 0:04:27.285,0:04:37.966 A: Yeah so I think basically when we start to create new, or what feel like radical identity categories 0:04:37.966,0:04:40.474 A: I know for myself, like, femme was one that was really important to me 0:04:40.474,0:04:44.653 A: and still is, but like, in it's formation was like, really consuming 0:04:44.653,0:04:51.016 A: and I was like, building femme community in Victoria, and trying to work shit out 0:04:51.016,0:04:55.711 A: and within that, what ended up happening was the question kept coming up: 0:04:55.711,0:04:58.032 A: Like, who is allowed to be here? 0:04:58.078,0:05:00.350 A: Who do we define as femme? What does this mean? 0:05:00.350,0:05:03.833 A: And we were never able to comfortably answer that question. 0:05:03.833,0:05:10.938 A: It always felt really, uncomfortable, and wrong actually to try to say who can and can't come in. 0:05:10.938,0:05:16.511 A: But there was a need to ask the question, and so I think that reflects 0:05:16.511,0:05:21.666 A: that when we are defining ourselves, what we are doing is like, containing our identities 0:05:21.666,0:05:27.100 A: into like, very sort of small, limited, fixed, restrictive places 0:05:27.100,0:05:31.743 A: And we're looking outside of them and defining ourselves against what we are not 0:05:31.743,0:05:36.666 M: I have a really good analogy for this actually. The way that I like to think about identity politics 0:05:36.666,0:05:43.864 M: And queer is part of this for sure, is like a shelf. A shelf with a bunch of containers on it. 0:05:43.864,0:05:47.905 M: So there's all these different containers, and each container contains a different identity politic 0:05:47.905,0:05:52.522 M: And in that identity politic, those people feel really great, but like 0:05:52.522,0:05:58.911 M: It's like not permeable for people on the outside, and also, we can't move off of the shelf. 0:05:58.911,0:06:01.271 M: So uh, I don't know. 0:06:01.271,0:06:04.494 A: Yeah. So yes, I guess like these containers 0:06:04.494,0:06:08.046 A: or I guess another way of looking at it is building fences 0:06:08.831,0:06:15.000 A: around our identities. Um, it's like, it can be really damaging, right? 0:06:15.046,0:06:18.671 A: Because as soon as you start to build a sense of self, you are simultaneously 0:06:18.671,0:06:24.894 A: building a sense of other as well. and so the question is then, who is that other? 0:06:24.894,0:06:27.634 M: And in this case it was riotsnotdiets. 0:06:27.634,0:06:29.213 A: Yeah, and because - 0:06:29.213,0:06:31.674 M: You're not an other baby. Not to us. 0:06:31.674,0:06:35.482 Ashley: Not to us. Yeah. People were percieving riotsnotdiets as 0:06:35.482,0:06:37.572 A: a "straight girl" 0:06:37.572,0:06:38.823 M: heteronormative 0:06:38.823,0:06:42.262 A: a heteronomative straight girl, appropriating queer experience 0:06:42.262,0:06:46.999 A: As those there is one queer experience. A uniform, universal queer experience 0:06:46.999,0:06:49.043 A: to be appropriated in the first place 0:06:49.043,0:06:53.640 M: Which is kind of inherently against what queer means, as a definition 0:06:53.640,0:06:59.538 M: Like, by definition queer is really radical, it's shifting, it's fluid there is so much in it 0:06:59.538,0:07:03.486 M: and there is room for everybody. But when it's brought into an 0:07:03.486,0:07:05.622 M: identity politic, automatically people are like excluding other people 0:07:05.622,0:07:10.126 M: and like, policing other people and telling them that like, they can't be a part of it. 0:07:10.126,0:07:11.473 M: Which is really interesting. 0:07:11.473,0:07:14.863 A: So yeah, so, let's like talk about fences a little bit. 0:07:14.863,0:07:16.442 M: Yeah! 0:07:16.442,0:07:21.274 A: Um a friend of mine was telling us the other night about this municipality in Quebec 0:07:21.335,0:07:28.284 A: Where she is from. That this sort of particularly wealthy community 0:07:28.284,0:07:31.907 A: I guess? You know, decided to build a fence around their municipality. 0:07:31.907,0:07:35.761 A: Um and they had a lot of greenspace, and within that greenspace - okay so 0:07:35.761,0:07:41.102 A: the fence that they built was like this dinky, kind of like pathetic 0:07:41.102,0:07:42.356 A: like knee high fence 0:07:42.356,0:07:44.771 M: Like it existed as a symbol 0:07:44.771,0:07:47.789 A: As a symbol. Yeah, it was really innefectual for anything other than that. 0:07:47.789,0:07:52.549 A: But what it did was it said, these people belong inside this municipality 0:07:52.549,0:07:55.893 A: And those who are outside do not belong inside. 0:07:55.893,0:08:01.373 A: Um, and so within this green space there were these kind of cops I guess 0:08:01.373,0:08:05.413 A: This like beautiful park right, and these cops would drive around on golf carts 0:08:05.413,0:08:09.964 A: and be um, chasing people out who didn't belong there 0:08:09.964,0:08:13.494 A: if they weren't from the municipality. 0:08:13.494,0:08:17.952 M: Yeah, and to add to that, one of our really wonderful friends 0:08:17.952,0:08:21.063 M: uh, came over today for coffee and said this really lovely thing 0:08:21.063,0:08:24.546 M: "fences are a despicable thing if you really think about it" 0:08:24.546,0:08:30.351 M: because they are markers of property. And when you think about how you look around and you 0:08:30.351,0:08:35.924 M: See fences everywhere. And what they mean is really intense if you um, are somebody who 0:08:35.924,0:08:39.036 M: is invested in radical politics and doesn't really like capitalism 0:08:39.036,0:08:44.098 M: And when you take it into an analysis of your community, or your identities 0:08:44.098,0:08:50.553 M: like it's really interesting how our fences, we build fences, and our identities become our property 0:08:50.553,0:08:54.732 M: And we believe that we can chase people around in golf carts like cops 0:08:54.732,0:08:58.262 M: And like, tell them that they can't be in our green space. 0:08:58.262,0:09:02.070 M: I think that's really interesting, and also sad 0:09:02.070,0:09:07.828 M: And I think that we need to be more aware and reflexive about the ways 0:09:07.828,0:09:09.779 M: That we do that, and how damaging that is. 0:09:09.779,0:09:12.147 A: And like thinking about the reasons why we do that right? 0:09:12.147,0:09:16.513 A: I think part of it is because we are afraid. I think we are really afraid 0:09:16.513,0:09:19.763 A: of people getting inside, and like, depoliticizing the movement 0:09:19.763,0:09:24.918 A: or like, ruining everything we've built for ourselves. 0:09:24.918,0:09:28.494 A: And then the other part of it that like, we want power. 0:09:28.494,0:09:31.699 A: Like people are seeking power and what that looks like in this context 0:09:31.699,0:09:34.578 A: and in many contexts, is a power over 0:09:34.578,0:09:39.268 A: Um, and when it's about , I want empowerment or strength 0:09:39.268,0:09:45.909 A: To like live my life the way that I need to and feel free, often it gets turned into 0:09:45.909,0:09:52.039 A: this control and like, authority, I suppose. 0:09:52.039,0:09:56.822 M: Yeah! And I think that also historically identitiy politics have been 0:09:56.822,0:10:01.002 M: to access, like certain kinds of privilege right? like the state will only give concessions 0:10:01.002,0:10:04.439 M: to certain people, uh, certain groups of people. 0:10:04.439,0:10:07.968 M: An example of that is like, the gay marriage thing in Canada, and that in the United States 0:10:07.968,0:10:13.169 M: You couldn't ever open that all up to everybody, what would happen? 0:10:13.169,0:10:19.253 M: Well it'd be amazing obviously, for like anybody to have access to the rights of marriage 0:10:19.253,0:10:21.951 M: but it's like obviously not going to happen. 0:10:21.951,0:10:26.535 M: Um, and another part of that is that this idea of normativity 0:10:26.535,0:10:29.981 M: is really problematic in queer communities because 0:10:29.981,0:10:33.835 M: I think that queer has this potential to be really bad ass 0:10:33.835,0:10:40.430 M: I think that it's important to remember that we really need to be looking at the ways in which 0:10:40.430,0:10:47.070 M: Nobody exists outside of like the ways that we are produced as subjects in this world 0:10:47.070,0:10:52.643 M: and like I think that often we think that are not somehow implicated in 0:10:52.643,0:10:56.219 M: white supremacy, or like racism, or capitalism, or patriarcy 0:10:56.219,0:10:59.888 M: or being a misogynist, or policing other people 0:10:59.888,0:11:01.281 A: or being transphobic 0:11:01.281,0:11:04.811 M: or being transphobic! or whatever. I think it's really important to remember you 0:11:04.811,0:11:06.436 M: Are super implicated in that 0:11:06.436,0:11:12.334 M: We are super implicated in that, and in these political identities however radical they may seem 0:11:12.334,0:11:17.442 M: Um, and that also, before what I was saying is that these identities 0:11:17.442,0:11:22.318 M: And the way that we are taking them up are really embedded in the ways 0:11:22.318,0:11:26.869 M: in which capitalism organizes our lives. And I think that when you take this 0:11:26.869,0:11:29.284 M: into a context of fences and policing and borders 0:11:29.284,0:11:35.182 M: You can see how queer communities politice one another just like the state polices us 0:11:35.182,0:11:40.616 M: And we create our counter norms, but are they really that radical? 0:11:40.616,0:11:45.817 M: I don't know. There is a lot to think about. And I hope that we were articulate. 0:11:45.817,0:11:49.439 M: I just think that there needs to be more critical thought around this. 0:11:49.439,0:11:52.969 A: And a little bit more gentleness, I think. 0:11:52.969,0:11:55.476 M: Gentleness! Fuck! Let's just hug instead. Kay? 0:11:55.476,0:12:01.328 M: Because you can't be tough without also being tender. 0:12:01.328,0:12:05.182 A: So, oh yeah. This is our thing now. 0:12:05.182,0:12:09.223 M: This is our new power symbol. For AfroTitty. 0:12:09.223,9:59:59.000 A: (laughs) Okay, yes this is Glitter Politic, signing off. Thanks for listening.