[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.88,0:00:06.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks to West Coast Sheen for having me here,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.55,0:00:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thanks to the previous speakers, um, for reminding us
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.86,0:00:11.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the stuff that I'm going to talk about here
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.56,0:00:15.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continues on in different forms, um, today,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.31,0:00:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that, um, people still continue to fight back.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.03,0:00:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, what I'm gonna do is, uh, I've been doing research into the black history of this province
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.36,0:00:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for about 15 years now,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.60,0:00:31.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uh, Vancouver in particular,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.80,0:00:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, and particularly a little neighbourhood called Hogan's Alley,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.51,0:00:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was in the east end, uh, and is right where the Georgia Viaduct is today.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.82,0:00:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, which was the nucleus of the original Black community of Vancouver.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.24,0:00:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, over the years of doing just various work around this topic
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.85,0:00:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, I wrote for a bunch of different sources, uh, in a bunch of different ways
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.24,0:00:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, sort of ad hoc over the years
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.08,0:01:03.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uh what I did when I went to put together this my latest book, which is called After Canaan
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.37,0:01:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, which is a book of 7 essays,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.70,0:01:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I put all of the writing that I had done on Hogan's Alley and blacks in vancouver into one essay.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.71,0:01:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, um, it's the longest essay in this book
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.53,0:01:20.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's, um, as far as I know it's the single longest piece of writing, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.55,0:01:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the single longest historical work on blacks in Vancouver.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.60,0:01:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there have, there has been a book of black history in the province
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.48,0:01:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that goes back to the 19th century,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.28,0:01:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the black history of Vancouver has not really been written yet in a comprehensive way.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.50,0:01:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hopefully someone will come along and do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.54,0:01:42.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do focus on this particular neighbourhood,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.05,0:01:45.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was sort of the, uh, where the majority of blacks in the city lived
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.63,0:01:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the middle of the 20th century,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.43,0:01:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there are other black histories around the city as well
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.08,0:01:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that should be acknowledged.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.16,0:01:54.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm also gonna show some images and, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.99,0:01:56.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not going to read from the essay,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.86,0:01:59.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I'm reading an essay it doesn't work that well.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.34,0:02:02.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's better I think to talk, uh, extemporaneously like that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.61,0:02:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I have uh a way of guiding myself through this talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.53,0:02:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'll keep it relatively short and hopefully there'll be a bit of a chance
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.61,0:02:14.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, um, answer some questions and have a bit of a dialogue.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.25,0:02:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's often where really interesting ideas come out anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.71,0:02:23.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I'm gonna do is give a talk that runs through
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.01,0:02:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a kind of old but tried and true formula
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.92,0:02:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's the who, what, where when and why
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.13,0:02:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's as good a way as any of organizing all of this stuff that I've gathered in my head
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.67,0:02:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this topic over the years.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.70,0:02:45.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so the title there is "Vancouver Vs Hogan's Alley: Urban Renewal, Negro Removal,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.05,0:02:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and The Myth of Livability", and uh, those topics will come up as we go along.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.26,0:02:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the first is who: who was the black community of vancovuer, and it's origins.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.16,0:03:02.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, it was a group of people who came here
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.17,0:03:07.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not so much uh as part of that original group that came to BC in the 19th century,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.85,0:03:13.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, although some of the black pioneers from Victoria, um, came over to Vancouver,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.44,0:03:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was one stream,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.54,0:03:19.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and another stream was from the US that was probably the largest one,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.02,0:03:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so lots of folks came up from the states,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.96,0:03:25.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including Vancouver's most famous black family,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.14,0:03:30.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which would have been the Hendrixes, Jimi's grandmother.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.33,0:03:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, another stream came from Alberta, a lot of folks who were originally from the States themselves,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.77,0:03:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came from Oklahoma
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.25,0:03:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to settle places like Amber Valley in northern Alberta.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.09,0:03:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, a lot of them came out to Vancouver in the 1930's during the depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.54,0:03:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so a lot of the old families are from alberta as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.48,0:03:49.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,American derived.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.74,0:03:53.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But a lot of this immigration is before the main era of immigration wave,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.17,0:03:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came from the Caribbean and Africa.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.74,0:04:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, Nora Hendrix is a pretty good example of uh that group of people
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.56,0:04:05.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were American derived, working class, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.11,0:04:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of them kind of mavericks in a way
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.24,0:04:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who sort of stepped out of, uh, out of the frame in some kind of way
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.82,0:04:16.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and decided to move to this crazy place with very few black people.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.20,0:04:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}_{\u0} what kind of personality traits they had to do something like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.14,0:04:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These were folks who were brave enough to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.22,0:04:26.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, a lot is made of Jimi Hendrix, but I always say that Nora was the real star
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.81,0:04:28.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the black community here,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.38,0:04:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uh she was someone who helped to establish the first black church
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.42,0:04:36.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}_{\u0} Episcopal Church.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.40,0:04:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, a few things too about women in the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.22,0:04:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, uh, if you look at the pioneers that came from, during the Gold Rush era to Victoria
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.03,0:04:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of those migrants and that wave of migration were male
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.55,0:04:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, uh, not so many women.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.22,0:04:56.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This migration stream was different,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.23,0:04:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was families coming up, and so there were a lot of women in the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.48,0:05:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't sort of one of those bachelor communities of immigrants.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.62,0:05:07.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, it did coalesce because of the job ghetto of porters,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.70,0:05:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so black men who were porters, and thats why Hogan's Alley is right at the train station,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.94,0:05:17.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, but the ones who created the most lasting institutions in the community were the women.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.30,0:05:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there were a series of what were called "chicken houses"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.76,0:05:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which were restaurants that sold southern fried chicken in the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.78,0:05:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, Vie Moore was probably the most famous one, she had a place called Vie's Chicken and Steak House
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.30,0:05:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was right down in Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.34,0:05:37.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a whole archipelago of these different women-owned restaurants that were in the community
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.39,0:05:43.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, some doubled as bootlegging places, speakeasies, after hours.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.58,0:05:47.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also the church, the church was largely established by the women of the community,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.56,0:05:49.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was a longstanding institution.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.90,0:05:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, they shut it down just shortly after Nora Hendrix finally took sick
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.52,0:05:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}?{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.10,0:06:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um....
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.40,0:06:05.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what was it, what was the neighbourhood like?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.51,0:06:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a little bit confusing.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.92,0:06:08.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Often people call it a black neighbourhood,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.66,0:06:11.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I correct them and say it's not quite true.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.93,0:06:14.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a multi-ethnic neighbourhood, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.34,0:06:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to say Italians can call Hogan's Alley their original neighbourhood too,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.79,0:06:22.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the city, because it was an Italian enclave,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.15,0:06:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was right next to Chinatown as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.57,0:06:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it was really intermixed, there were all sorts of people who lived there.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.58,0:06:29.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was basically an immigrant enclave.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.79,0:06:32.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason why it gets described as a black neighbourhood, why some say that,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.47,0:06:37.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the majority of blacks in the city lived there at the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.65,0:06:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, there's also a little bit of a debate about Hogan's Alley proper,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.46,0:06:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the East End, and so when you talk with some of the elders,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.01,0:06:49.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they like to remind us that Hogan's Alley was sort of one section of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.55,0:06:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and really, folks lived all through the east end.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.66,0:06:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hogan's Alley itself kind of had a series of institutions which, the church was there,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.45,0:06:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Vie's was there
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.15,0:07:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the other night clubs were there
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.49,0:07:04.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so it was sort of like maybe the commercial, most well known aspect commercially
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.54,0:07:09.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but people lived all around {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} through Strathcona
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.82,0:07:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, still, it was a sort of pseudo-segregation,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.30,0:07:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,though there was no official segregation against the black community in vancouver
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.48,0:07:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way there was against First Nations people and Asians,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.26,0:07:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so there was no law on the books
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.87,0:07:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that blacks couldnt live here or there.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.80,0:07:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but i call it pseudo segregation because there are all sorts of stories
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.78,0:07:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people saying you couldnt rent anywhere in the city just because of racism.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.76,0:07:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So an unofficial kind of segregation existed.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.94,0:07:42.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this was a neighbourhood where you could go rent somewhere and people would leave you alone.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.82,0:07:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was that neighbourhood where sort of an ad hoc group of immigrants from all different places
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.94,0:07:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, and at the edge of Chinatown, that's part of it too.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.71,0:07:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, pseudo segregation is the best way to describe that, I think.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.83,0:08:01.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, it may also explain why there was, why there was some fluidity
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.25,0:08:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of the neighbourhood later.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.39,0:08:05.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'll get to that.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.13,0:08:09.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, during the 1930's, a lot of the writing that went on about Hogan's Alley
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.67,0:08:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in The Province and The (Vancouver) Sun,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.64,0:08:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, referred to it as a slum,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.88,0:08:18.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it also befell victim to a program that was, that called itself "slum clearance"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.97,0:08:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, described that way over and over again, um
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.43,0:08:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, whether or not it was a slum, when you talk to the elders, it's interesting.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.49,0:08:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get different stories from different people,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.23,0:08:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some people say "yeah it was a slum and you're lucky not to have lived there,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.07,0:08:36.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm glad I'm out of there...and... stop talking about it."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.46,0:08:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the way over to other people who were saying
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.96,0:08:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"well, you know, it was poor, but it was like a village in a lot of ways,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.78,0:08:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you knew everybody, and yknow, yeah,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.35,0:08:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was some violence and crime, but there was also this church there,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.63,0:08:53.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was also families that grew up there, uh, hard working people,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.41,0:08:55.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all sorts of different types, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.15,0:08:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a whole community that lived there."
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.17,0:08:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, and so just to call it a slum is inaccurate.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.86,0:09:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so it was a poor community, that's without doubt.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.77,0:09:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, it was working class, uh, there was some crime there.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.22,0:09:10.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot was made of that in the papers,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.36,0:09:13.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way it seems like the only time people ever wrote about Hogan's Alley
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.87,0:09:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was when it was, uh, when there was either high profile crime that happened there
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.79,0:09:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, or they were talking about bulldozing the place because of the crimes that were happening.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.37,0:09:25.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are the two news stories that seemed the most common.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.31,0:09:30.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So to find out what went on, you really would have to talk to people, and read between the lines
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.46,0:09:32.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what else was happening.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.83,0:09:35.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, a little bit about the name too.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.54,0:09:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, Hogan's Alley, uh, there are a bunch of different stories about where the name came from.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.86,0:09:45.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, uh, it seems that the most accurate one is
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.77,0:09:51.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a comic strip in the 19th century called Hogan's Alley,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.19,0:09:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and another one called The Yellow Kid, by an artist named (Richard F.) Outcault
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.78,0:10:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was an Anglo-American comic strip artist
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.32,0:10:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he kind of invented the form of comic strips in a way.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.96,0:10:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, uh, Hogan's Alley in his comic strip was this kind of Irish neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.91,0:10:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is a time before Irish people were unanimously considered white.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.63,0:10:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is back when this immigrant population that were not considered model minorities,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.21,0:10:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and really were not totally accepted as white Americans.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.83,0:10:31.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so he has this uh imaginary neighbourhood in Hell's Kitchen, New york, called Hogan's Alley,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.55,0:10:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is this completely chaotic {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} and a scene of urban squalor
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.65,0:10:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I have a picture...
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.48,0:10:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's it there. And the caption is:
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.96,0:10:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What they did to the dog catcher in Hogan's Alley"
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.40,0:10:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is, kick his ass apparently.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.46,0:10:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but this became a kind of euphamism for slum,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.82,0:10:57.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for wild chaotic neighbourhood kind of crazy place where things are out of control,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.54,0:10:58.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all across North America.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.97,0:11:01.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you actually see Hogan's Alleys in a bunch of different places
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.91,0:11:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it was this sort of generic term for the part of town that you shouldn't go to.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.60,0:11:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was also Hogan's Alley in Rossland, here in BC,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.25,0:11:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was the red light district there.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.32,0:11:21.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, and I think that the FBI or CIA, their shooting gallery,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.34,0:11:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so where they train people, where they train their agents to shoot
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.36,0:11:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is called Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.43,0:11:31.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where you get citizens popping up and criminals and you're supposed to shoot the gun and the knife
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.77,0:11:34.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not the woman with the baby or whatever.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.35,0:11:36.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, they call it Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.82,0:11:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyways, so, it was this epithet originally.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.47,0:11:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's come to be the term for the neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.51,0:11:47.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's sort of lost in time I think, as uh the comic strip stopped appearing.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.36,0:11:53.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, um, that's the name we have for it now.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.47,0:11:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, where, was it, so, I'll show the map.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.26,0:12:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's uh, that's the area, so this is one archival map of the neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.68,0:12:07.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'll just step over here.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.44,0:12:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's Gore, Union, Prior, Main Street is right here
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.08,0:12:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's not like this any more, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.02,0:12:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know where you are?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.60,0:12:26.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Georgia Viaduct sits here right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.05,0:12:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? That's where the Georgia Viaduct {\u1}_{\u0} offramp is,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.79,0:12:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it connects onto Prior Street, to Venables.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.87,0:12:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there's a new condo is there, there the Jimi Hendrix shrine is there.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.79,0:12:42.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All this stuff is gone
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.27,0:12:43.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As well as this.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.29,0:12:44.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is that green space.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.14,0:12:45.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not actually a park, people think it's a park,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.27,0:12:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's actually owned by the city not the Parks Board
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.02,0:12:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cuz it was supposed to be, uh, the rest of this freeway plan,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.06,0:12:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh that was going to cut Chinatown in half,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.83,0:12:57.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it doesnt exist there because they stopped it.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.08,0:12:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But not before they wiped out Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.75,0:13:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the heart of Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.96,0:13:04.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People get confused sometimes about whether or not it was this
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.63,0:13:05.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was running north/south
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.13,0:13:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or this east/west thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.31,0:13:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well it was both, it was this T-shaped part right there
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.22,0:13:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it carried on um where it kind of stopped being Hogan's Alley
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.26,0:13:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was an unofficial name
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.64,0:13:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seems to be about here
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.34,0:13:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is where the church was.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.15,0:13:21.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And just from kind of oral histories,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.88,0:13:24.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people say that most of the black families lived here.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.06,0:13:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a few apartment buildings here, that were mostly black.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.88,0:13:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so I want to say that that was more the Italian end
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.96,0:13:34.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this was sort of the black end,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.63,0:13:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but then that is really porous actually
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.04,0:13:40.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Vie's Chicken and Steak House was over here
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.78,0:13:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the porter's quarters was here, that was really way back
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.73,0:13:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before World War I.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.23,0:13:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was really the origins of it as a black site.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.17,0:13:53.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The porters union had a kind of like a way station for black porters
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.92,0:13:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who didn't have a place to stay, who had hit Vancouver, so they would stay there.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.94,0:14:09.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's probably why it became associated with the black community.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.34,0:14:15.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, now, so that is I think why it's there, it's because if you look sort of down the map{\u1}_{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.66,0:14:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get the train station, so, this is the place that people first hit
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.94,0:14:22.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess, if they'd gotten off that train
Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.61,0:14:24.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uh that's where they ended up staying.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.98,0:14:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, I'll speak a little about tha freeway plan, because it came up.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.27,0:14:31.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, that freeway plan goes way back.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.68,0:14:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were planning to put some kind of inter-urban freeway in Vancouver
Dialogue: 0,0:14:37.12,0:14:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going back into the '40's
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.54,0:14:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Exactly how it was going to look was a little uncertain.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.51,0:14:45.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the plans would coalesce over the years
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.25,0:14:50.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it dovetailed at a certain point with this concept of slum clearance
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.47,0:14:56.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, and it became this really unholy conflict with different ideologies.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.25,0:15:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So on the one hand, uh, this idea that in order to improve people's neighbourhood,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.30,0:15:04.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should knock down all of their houses and put up some high rises
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.55,0:15:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they should go live in.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.38,0:15:09.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was the ideology that they called urban renewal.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.39,0:15:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It happened all across North America
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.50,0:15:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and um it's responsible for creating the projects of the States
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.92,0:15:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The infamous projects, Cabrini-Green, places like that,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.50,0:15:26.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,widely known as a failure of social planning, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.45,0:15:30.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This happened in just about every neighbourhood and every city in North America
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.42,0:15:31.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in one form or another
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.54,0:15:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Invariably it happened to a, um, black community or a Chinese{\u1}_{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.88,0:15:41.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,haven't found a place where it didn't happen in a poor neighbourhood
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.23,0:15:43.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, it's just really uniform.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.06,0:15:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basically, there's this switch to the car,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.77,0:15:48.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so this is the same period where they're ripping up street cars,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.28,0:15:50.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're switching everything over to the car
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.22,0:15:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people are expected to live in the suburbs and commute to the city.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.26,0:15:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a huge social shift, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.60,0:15:58.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, and so they decided well we have to have a freeway
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.24,0:15:59.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running, connecting the suburbs to the city,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.65,0:16:01.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and where do we put it?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.69,0:16:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We put it in the poorest neighbourhood,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.96,0:16:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the neighbourhood that's the least able to defend itself, um, the black neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.24,0:16:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That happened here
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.78,0:16:11.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Exactly according to that plan.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.39,0:16:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not talked about, nobody will cop to it,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.83,0:16:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not {\u1}_{\u0} to find anybody who will say this was the plan,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.14,0:16:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's just the uniformity of how it took place all across the continent.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.79,0:16:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's pretty clear how it worked.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.13,0:16:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, now in Vancouver, things didn't quite go according to the plan
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.61,0:16:32.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They had this huge eight lane freeway that was supposed to sweep
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.22,0:16:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from First Avenue to Clark to Venables, up Prior.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.28,0:16:40.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was the onramp to the part that went downtown
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.21,0:16:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was also supposed to dogway through Chinatown, rip Chinatown in half
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.66,0:16:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and go all the way to the Burrard Inlet.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.00,0:16:49.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was even a proposed third crossing of the Inlet
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.54,0:16:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was gonna be there to be either a tunnel or a bridge.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.42,0:16:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, now none of that happened because the community got up in arms and stopped it
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.57,0:17:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when these plans saw light of day.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.41,0:17:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were trying to keep it as secret as they could over the years
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.08,0:17:05.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bits and pieces leaked out,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.03,0:17:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people knew something was up,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.16,0:17:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause they were passing a series of bylaws that made it, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.30,0:17:12.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that outlawed people from making certain improvements
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.35,0:17:14.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or from putting curbs in, and things like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.79,0:17:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all this area where you see a bunch of people live
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.83,0:17:20.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was designated industrial during this era.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.88,0:17:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you see, it's all houses, all housing lots, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.65,0:17:26.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not industrial, industrial land.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.99,0:17:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but that was part of the plan to edge people out.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.51,0:17:34.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they actually did build projects here in Vancouver too,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.15,0:17:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so the McLean Park projects, and the Reineer project were built because of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.30,0:17:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea was that everybody living here would go live in those.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.01,0:17:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, exactly the same plan as the States.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.32,0:17:48.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now what was different here was um
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.09,0:17:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one, they did it late. It took them a long time to get it started.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.08,0:17:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Partly {\u1}_ the way Canada copies things from the States {\u1}{\u0}{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.02,0:17:58.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,10 years later, basically that's what happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.66,0:18:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So by the time they were trying to initiate this plan,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.00,0:18:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was the 60's, and people were, instead of the 50's and 40's,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.71,0:18:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they were doing these things in New York and other big American cities,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.52,0:18:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so people were very empowered, it was a different era.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.40,0:18:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was after the Civil Rights movement, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.00,0:18:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, um, people weren't having it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.48,0:18:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And um there was an organization called SPOTA, Strathcona Property Owners and Tenants Association
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.74,0:18:25.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that spearheaded this campaign.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.58,0:18:27.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, and they stopped it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.99,0:18:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, now, that's sort of the story that we hear most often,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.83,0:18:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's the myth of livability we're talking about.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.10,0:18:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you hear Harcourt, Mike Harcourt tell the story,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.90,0:18:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, he saved Vancouver, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.62,0:18:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's paradise now.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.26,0:18:40.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.43,0:18:41.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a book title.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.50,0:18:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, City Making In Paradise.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.74,0:18:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, what they don't mention is, um, this is the part of the plan that did go ahead, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.12,0:18:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they struck ground and started knocking these places down,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.70,0:18:56.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expropriating these building, going back to '67.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.34,0:18:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the real protests took a while to get started,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.72,0:19:02.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so people were angry about it, they were trying to stop it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.06,0:19:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, you know, but not before this was destroyed.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.51,0:19:11.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even so, the black community was mostly leaving before that point,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.22,0:19:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was really during the late 50's, early 60's, when {\u1}{\u1}{\u0} were {\u1}{\u0}{\u0}go,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.10,0:19:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and were not moving into the McLean Park projects,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.44,0:19:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they did not move there.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.65,0:19:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, uh, that's the point where the black community of Vancouver integrated.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.87,0:19:27.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you have a friend coming from out of town who says
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.04,0:19:28.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"where are all the black people in Vancouver?"
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.31,0:19:33.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you say, "well, they used to be there, and then they knocked it down and put these projects up
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.06,0:19:37.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the black folks didn't move into them, they moved everywhere. They scattered all across the city".
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.50,0:19:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but still those numbers didn't get smaller, they got bigger, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.92,0:19:46.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's not like the community evaporated or something like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.73,0:19:48.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really the community integrated.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.18,0:19:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, thats the negro removal part.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.67,0:20:04.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the States, where our African American cousins are, are more sardonic and wittier,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.92,0:20:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they called urban renewal negro removal, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.30,0:20:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because they saw it happening over and over again.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.14,0:20:14.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In our case, uh, blacks removed themselves,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.05,0:20:18.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that, you know, I've looked at the statistics really closely
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.13,0:20:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tried to locate where there's anothe black locus,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.40,0:20:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the closest thing is right where we are right now actually,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.84,0:20:26.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Mount Pleasant and, I guess largely because of the new waves of African immigration.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.73,0:20:32.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But otherwise, {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} there is no black enclave int he Lower Mainland, anywhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.74,0:20:35.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you look at the map, when you look at stats Canada,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.15,0:20:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it looks as if, you know, black folks were given a directive
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.76,0:20:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to live as far apart from other black folks as they possibly could [audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:20:42.04,0:20:46.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} plan into action, it's really just spread out everywhere across the city.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.09,0:20:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether or not it's a good or bad thing, I think it's a good thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.20,0:20:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's better than being segregated, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.64,0:20:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have the right to live wherever you want to live.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.58,0:21:00.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has had some downsides to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.60,0:21:06.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is, um, you know, the community is not recognized as existing.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.08,0:21:10.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really ironic, if you look at newspaper articles from the Hogan's Alley period,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.46,0:21:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, it's pretty clear that, um, Vancouverites were quite aware
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.01,0:21:17.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they had a black population in the city.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.19,0:21:19.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, they had all sorts of fucked up ideas about who they were,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.39,0:21:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they were aware that they were there, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.86,0:21:23.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you look at today,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.47,0:21:25.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.61,0:21:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's uh
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.54,0:21:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll hear people say, how many people have heard people say
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.32,0:21:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"there are no black people in vancovuer"?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.86,0:21:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A black person talking to someone will say to you "there are no black people here..."
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.90,0:21:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.14,0:21:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, well, there are more, there are more here now that there were back then
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.66,0:21:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,percentage wise, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.43,0:21:47.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are 20,000, more than 20,000 black folks in the Lower Mainland.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.18,0:21:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's not huge compared to other minority groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.38,0:21:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's a lot of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:52.26,0:21:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If all those people lived in one neighbourhood?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.07,0:21:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'd have a whole bunch of things that we don't have right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.45,0:22:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a community centre, or some civic markers that we were in certain places.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.66,0:22:07.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, we'd have some remnants of whatever community had existed.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.94,0:22:14.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I often say when people ask me "ok if you're not against integration, um, then yknow,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.12,0:22:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what do you wish would have happened in a place like Hogan's Alley? So what would you have preferred?"
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.38,0:22:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I often say, yknow, if things, if they hadn't destroyed it,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.76,0:22:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they'd left it alone, if they'd let it just develop organically,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.43,0:22:33.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, yknow, even if they hadn't funded it, or yknow tried to improve anybody's lives,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.49,0:22:35.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they'd just left it alone,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.43,0:22:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think what you would have had in Hogan's Alley was something similar to, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.32,0:22:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you have on Commercial Drive, in terms of Little Italy, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:42.99,0:22:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was, we know that Commercial Drive is/was Little Italy,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.31,0:22:49.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not a whole lot of Ialians living there, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.08,0:22:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's a lot of cafes, and there's Il Mercato, there's things that,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.23,0:22:57.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's still institutions that are there, that are remnants of, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.01,0:23:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the time when it was an Italian enclave residentially, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.73,0:23:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's sort of what you would have had there too.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.77,0:23:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You still would have had certain places, certain institutions, and chicken houses,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.93,0:23:11.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and um whatever had evolved over the years, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.24,0:23:14.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I still think people would have integrated,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.12,0:23:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think you would have had um, maybe this kind of en masse, really fast integration,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.50,0:23:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think people gradually would have,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.07,0:23:24.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you would still have this recognition that yeah the city has a black community,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.97,0:23:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes they used to live there, and everybody knows it, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.36,0:23:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, what they took away from us with this freeway plan
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.01,0:23:36.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was I think that memory of the city as a black site.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.77,0:23:42.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, that's why, yknow, I persistently defend Black History Month
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.15,0:23:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a fantastic institution and as something that's really well suited to Vancouver.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.26,0:23:51.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a place where you don't have a physical site, we have this time of year, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.77,0:23:56.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where people get together intentionally, uh, at events like tonight,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.05,0:23:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and talk about this history.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.52,0:24:00.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Y'know, if it weren't for this, it really would fade away,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.64,0:24:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really would be even more sporadic than it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.84,0:24:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, another reason to thank the organizers for doing this.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.16,0:24:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so, people are there, they get together intentionally,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.25,0:24:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, we don't have those sort of organic institutions that might have been there,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.91,0:24:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, um, what I've been doing over the years and a lot of other people have in various different ways
Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.38,0:24:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is trying to intentionally memorialize the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.02,0:24:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in 2002, I can't believe it's so long ago, {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}_
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.03,0:24:37.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2002, uh, I helped to establish a group called the Hogan's Alley Memorial Project
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.69,0:24:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, which originally we just, we just wanted there to be a plaque of some kind down there,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.68,0:24:48.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some marker that there was this black community there.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.52,0:24:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when we got into the work of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.56,0:24:53.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we realized that, um, a couple things:
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.19,0:25:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One, um, most Vancouverites it seemed like didn't even know that there was this black community
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.22,0:25:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had been there.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.56,0:25:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we realized that, well, yknow, wanting to get a plaque was one thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.07,0:25:10.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but informing people that this existed, that this was the history, um, became a large part of our task.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:10.19,0:25:12.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And two: WE didn't know that much about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.76,0:25:19.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So everybody in our group, nobody descended from, uh, any of those original groups,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.07,0:25:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,although we ended up hooking up with people who did,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.44,0:25:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, who came and did work with us.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:22.45,0:25:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So... the sons and daughters and grandsons and granddaughters of some of the elders
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.10,0:25:33.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, have also worked with us,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.24,0:25:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So [coughing] we ended up being this kind of information gathering group
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.88,0:25:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sort of, I like to think of, um, an activist group or sort of a pressure group,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.01,0:25:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to kind of keep the name Hogan's Alley in the media as much as possible,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.75,0:25:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remind people that there is this black community here,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.67,0:25:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a black community here,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.30,0:25:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, it's around.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:55.11,0:25:59.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And uh, trying to gather up wahtever information there is, um, out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.66,0:26:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'll show a few of those things now.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.48,0:26:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is, sort of jumping around a bit with these images...
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.83,0:26:13.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, for example, this is an article from 1952.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.27,0:26:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's actually the, uh, one of the few pictures that we have of the black church in in its time.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:20.00,0:26:23.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Although it's not showing the church, it's taken from the top of the steps of the church,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.53,0:26:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking outward.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.39,0:26:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's the Krump [sp?] family there, and they're coming up the steps of the church.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.13,0:26:30.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this was an article Bruce Ramsey did.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.89,0:26:33.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every once in a while, if you read all the newspaper articles, yknow,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:33.51,0:26:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on maybe a 7 to 10 year cycle, um, reporters kind of realize there's a black community
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.74,0:26:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have some article that's like "Hey {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}{\u1}_{\u0}"
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.36,0:26:46.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then it sort of goes away for several years,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.56,0:26:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it comes back and someone says "hey there are black people here!"
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.77,0:26:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they write an article about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.96,0:26:51.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why Black History Month is good,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:51.42,0:26:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, instead of this cycle, it's once a year [audience laughing] so it's a good thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.75,0:27:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so yeah, that's one image of... the other thing I like about this is
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.22,0:27:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a lot of the photos of black folks in Hogan's Alley,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.16,0:27:08.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not a lot of people had cameras back then,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:08.74,0:27:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it seems like, when they did take photos, they're often interior shots,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:11.87,0:27:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it could be anywhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.52,0:27:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I like he fact that you see behind you the False Creek Flats there,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.21,0:27:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's Prior Street, it kind of gives you an image of black folks in this city.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.79,0:27:29.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is an image of, um, Vie's Chicken and Steak House.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.62,0:27:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is another example, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.36,0:27:35.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of having images, you have uh, you know, an artist's rendering of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.71,0:27:39.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is Keith McKellar's, uh, drawing, from a great book called Neon Eulogy
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.59,0:27:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where he {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} Vancouver sites, mostly, uh, on the East Side.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.08,0:27:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, Vie's was a very important institution.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.08,0:27:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it was the longest running of those chicken and steak houses, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.16,0:28:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, um, Vie's granddaughter's writing a biography of her grandmother
Dialogue: 0,0:28:00.20,0:28:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it'll be great to read that book when it comes out.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:02.84,0:28:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,An amazing woman who had descended from the original black pioneers from Victoria.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.30,0:28:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, ran a brothel there for a while.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.05,0:28:15.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, cashed out at a certain point, got out of the game, moved back to Vancouver,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.89,0:28:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used the money to buy Vie's.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.22,0:28:23.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And was actually was I think one of the only black property owners in {\u1}_{\u0} town.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.21,0:28:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most people weren't.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.83,0:28:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's Vie's.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.72,0:28:39.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment] I'm a little confused, could you go back to that, to there?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.39,0:28:45.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you said that African Canadian community lived largely over by Jackson,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.30,0:28:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you said the freeway construction largely wiped out the area opposite Jackson, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.30,0:29:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, where's the evidence of this place {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} where it actually becomes part of the highway construction
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.20,0:29:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}?{\u0}__?"]
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.45,0:29:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah, well, it was more the destruction to the neighbourhood itself, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.54,0:29:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was, yeah, I'm sort of mixing up the eras too.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.83,0:29:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was sort of a later era.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.57,0:29:14.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go way back to the original black community, there was a series of, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:14.27,0:29:16.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cabins, that appear,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:16.77,0:29:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right along this part.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.38,0:29:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A bunch of cabins.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.16,0:29:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they were actually cited as the reason for the urban renewal plans.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.48,0:29:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cause they were, uh, kind of a weird architecture compared to the rest of the neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.80,0:29:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were these sort of single dwelling cabins, I guess where, kind of for bachelors
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.41,0:29:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was where, there was a kind of, that was a bit of a black part [black mark?] of Hogan's Alley
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.65,0:29:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a certain period
Dialogue: 0,0:29:40.55,0:29:42.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The porter's quarters were there, Vie's was there.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.31,0:29:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So a lot of the businesses and things were down here.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.52,0:29:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The church was here and there was {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}_.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.12,0:29:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's sort of a bit later too.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.03,0:29:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's a different overlapping of eras {\u1}_{\u0}.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.93,0:29:54.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But like I said, I mean, the reason why black folks left,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.44,0:30:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really wasn't, uh, it wasn't like Africville [in Halifax, Nova Scotia], it wasn't like, people were all living there,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.85,0:30:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the land was expropriated, and then it was bulldozed, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.23,0:30:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.73,0:30:08.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was much more like the plans were instituted 10 years beforehand,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.37,0:30:14.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people were,um, given the message thatt this neighbourhood is going down, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.36,0:30:20.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're building these projects, and you're gonna live there.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.54,0:30:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people got out, it wasn't as thought they were, yknow,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.74,0:30:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had their house expropriated out from under them.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:26.39,0:30:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bulldozed, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.05,0:30:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was more like, people got out of their own accord.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.24,0:30:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment:] Do you want to just contextualize Africville?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.75,0:30:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I don't know if people know,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:35.65,0:30:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Africville, I mean, I'm not an expert on Africville either,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:37.62,0:30:40.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I understand it, that was um, in Halifax.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.99,0:30:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a black community that was, it was a much faster expropriation as far as I know.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.06,0:30:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was taken over and... what was put there?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.13,0:30:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment] I think it just ended up being a vacant space for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.78,0:30:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was supposed to be a roadway, or some other kind of urban development
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.96,0:31:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually didn't materialize.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.62,0:31:04.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah. This same idea, that same language of blight, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:04.14,0:31:08.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That the neighbourhood was a blight on the civic body
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.01,0:31:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and had to be renewed in some kind of way, which meant knocked down.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:12.75,0:31:16.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, the last little bit, just before I stop,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.37,0:31:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, is the why. Why is it important?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.79,0:31:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, um, partly, to talk about Hogan's Alley and remembering it knocks down several myths.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.62,0:31:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is that myth of black absence in the city, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.81,0:31:30.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So yeah, folks are here.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.13,0:31:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, yknow, if you look at those numbers,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:32.52,0:31:35.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a little bit less than 1% of the population.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.43,0:31:38.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you think, "I don't see a lot of black people in the city",
Dialogue: 0,0:31:38.42,0:31:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to sort pf re-train your eyes.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.72,0:31:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's kind of like, well, look on the streets,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.76,0:31:46.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, uh, out of every hundred people who walk by, one of them is black.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.59,0:31:47.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does that sound a bit like Vancouver?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.89,0:31:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah it does.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:48.91,0:31:51.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that's because that's how Vancovuer is...[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.72,0:31:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how it works.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.84,0:31:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the myth of black absesce is something I'm always pushing against.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.58,0:32:00.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, one of the things, I mean, there are more black folks in Greater Vancouver
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.51,0:32:04.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than there are in Nova Scotia,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.03,0:32:07.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people don't believe me when i say that,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.12,0:32:09.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'll send you to Stats Canada to look at the numbers.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.94,0:32:15.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, there's a lot folks here, it's just a very big city with a lot of other people here too.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:15.39,0:32:17.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's, an optical illusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.24,0:32:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment] And, and to your point too, Nova Scotia has held on to the historical presence.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.45,0:32:28.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah, it's older, it's older presence, it's very rooted, uh, more homogeneous in certain ways,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:28.76,0:32:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it's been, we know, well,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.45,0:32:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not sure that's true that everyone knows there's a black community there,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.67,0:32:38.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think they have a high profile nationally, more than we do, that's for sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:38.37,0:32:40.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, another myth that it knocks down
Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.18,0:32:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the myth of black ahistoricality.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.51,0:32:46.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yknow, blacks haven't been here for, yknow, a long time,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.82,0:32:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but blacks have been here, yknow, from before this was a province, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.64,0:32:53.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the colonial days.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.05,0:32:54.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All the way back, including in Vancouver.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.78,0:32:59.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, some of the first black folks who were here were, uh, here at the very beginning.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.83,0:33:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there are blacks all through the history, um.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.38,0:33:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are different waves of immigration, that's true,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.29,0:33:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's some sort of, uh, waves and recessions,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:10.23,0:33:13.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but uh, but they've been here all along.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.37,0:33:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's another myth that it knocks down.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:14.87,0:33:17.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other is this uh, this whole, Vancouverism,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.71,0:33:22.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Vancouver is this model of urban planning,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.71,0:33:26.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this sort of self-congratulatory, let's all pat each other on the backs
Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.67,0:33:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how wonderful Vancouver is and how horrible those other cities are
Dialogue: 0,0:33:29.42,0:33:32.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that did those terrible things to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.06,0:33:37.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Y'know, it's like, uh I'm always saying, if you read like Douglas Copeland talk about Vancouver
Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.07,0:33:40.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he said something like "Vancouver never lost its innocence
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.43,0:33:42.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it never put a freeway into the city
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.97,0:33:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so on and so forth, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.01,0:33:48.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I want to debunk that. That's not true.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:48.03,0:33:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There WAS a community that paid the price for this.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.07,0:33:54.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We DID have urban renewal here and it did mess with people for years and years and years,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.50,0:33:56.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it made their lives really hard,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.02,0:33:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and eventually pushed this one community out altogether.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.22,0:34:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, it was a pernicious plan, it did happen here, and it was the same as everywhere else.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.80,0:34:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's nothing really particularly wonderful about Vancouver's planning history at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.37,0:34:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, and that leads up to my last point,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.34,0:34:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is that, uh, where we're sort of left with,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.93,0:34:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so often when people ask me about Hogan's Alley
Dialogue: 0,0:34:15.74,0:34:17.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they ask what should be done down there now,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.57,0:34:21.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what do you think the community should be like now?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.48,0:34:26.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And [coughing] um, the answer is pretty simple.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.50,0:34:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same thing that should have happened then,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:28.95,0:34:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is, you know, the people who live there now,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.52,0:34:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not the people that own there, or the people who are speculating there, yknow, or anything like that,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.84,0:34:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the people who live there are the experts on what should happen in that place, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.86,0:34:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the people who live their now in, yknow, what used to be called Hogan's Alley,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.08,0:34:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who now talk about it as the Downtown Eastside,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.30,0:34:52.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, the parallels are very clear between how
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.44,0:34:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that neighbourhood is spoken about now,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.70,0:34:59.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how the slum of Hogan's Alley was spoken about, uh, back then, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.84,0:35:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same kind of, uh, othering voice that talks about, uh, that talks about, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.94,0:35:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this community as though they're a problem
Dialogue: 0,0:35:07.68,0:35:10.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we need to figure out what to do with, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.18,0:35:13.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And really the answer is that people down there know what should be done to their neighbourhood
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.71,0:35:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are the experts on what should happen to the neighbourhood.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:15.85,0:35:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Consult with them
Dialogue: 0,0:35:17.34,0:35:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's everybody that lives there,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.36,0:35:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are renting there, people who live on the streets there, um
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.12,0:35:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are using that neighbourhood
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.56,0:35:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the ones who should decide what happens down there.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.79,0:35:29.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what didn't happen uh, dusing the 40's, 50's and 60's,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.46,0:35:33.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why we had the situation that destroyed the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.82,0:35:36.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now it's no longer really the black community at all, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.19,0:35:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's not, um, the claim that we have on it is really this historical claim,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.16,0:35:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I'm pushing for some kind of memorial in physical form down there.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.76,0:35:48.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a few things at play, and things that have happened,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.31,0:35:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I used to say you know there's no marker down there that there was ever a black community,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.61,0:35:54.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now that that's changed I can't say that anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.53,0:35:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the Jimi Hendrix shrine is there.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:56.53,0:36:04.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very eccentric, a very Vancouver memorial [audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.31,0:36:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's, very very recently, there's the Hogan's Alley Cafe
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.40,0:36:09.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right at the corner of Gore and Union.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.66,0:36:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the name is down there now.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.09,0:36:15.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, there are some things there now.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.24,0:36:17.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like there to be something a bit more official and, uh, something that's
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.100,0:36:21.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe interpretive, to maybe give some sense of the history.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.47,0:36:23.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we'll keep pushing for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.23,0:36:24.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think some things are in play.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.67,0:36:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's um, yknow, there's some stuff happening,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:27.83,0:36:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I feel like we've hit that critical mass of uh educating people,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:31.97,0:36:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now people kind of know about the history, there are some things happening,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.10,0:36:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think over the next few years, there will be some memorial there.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.90,0:36:41.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, in some kind of form.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.76,0:36:44.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, um, tha's great.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.34,0:36:52.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but, uh, the other thing too is to continue talking about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.07,0:36:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and keeping it as a living history, so, yknow, sometimes,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.23,0:37:01.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know somebody said the thing about how memorials are is that they allow us to forget about something.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.87,0:37:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I hope that's not the case, I hope it's, uhu, I hope we can keep, continue to connect up the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.07,0:37:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,past to what's going on now.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.44,0:37:13.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And previous speakers are a good example of that, so,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.71,0:37:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recognizing that racism still happens,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.04,0:37:17.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still happens against black people,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.51,0:37:21.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still happens in very particualar ways against black people, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.14,0:37:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we maybe hear those scripts player over and over again,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.89,0:37:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have to continue to fight them,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.16,0:37:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, things have changed, , it is a different world,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.39,0:37:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not the exact same demographic,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.97,0:37:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, things do move around a bit,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.78,0:37:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there are some fundamental issues that we still face
Dialogue: 0,0:37:34.75,0:37:37.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uh I think we have to continue fighting them.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:37.21,0:37:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My role in that right now is to fight for this memory,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.07,0:37:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, um, I'll continue to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:43.66,0:37:46.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll stop when I just show you one photograph.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.61,0:37:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hadn't seen this photograph until, uh, Sunday night.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.94,0:37:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So at East End Blues and All That Jazz, which was where Vancouver Moving Theatre
Dialogue: 0,0:37:56.50,0:38:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did a wonderful,uh, show that had some of the voices of some of the original residents
Dialogue: 0,0:38:02.24,0:38:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Hogan's Alley, the elders from the black community, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:04.66,0:38:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,created this fantastic review,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.30,0:38:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's kind of like a cabaret history of the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.46,0:38:15.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, that's over now, it ran on Sunday night.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.59,0:38:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, um, Chip Gibson, who was there, was narrating it
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.82,0:38:22.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and shared with us this image, so I took this from the program.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.49,0:38:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is an image of the congregation of the African Methodist Episcopal Church,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.66,0:38:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around 1935, at a picnic at Stanley Park.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.45,0:38:34.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I saw this, it was just like, that's it right there,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.32,0:38:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the kind of thing we're trying to keep alive.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:38.80,0:38:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The memory that this is Vancouver, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.50,0:38:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, folks dressed very nicely [audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.35,0:38:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so now I'll open it up to questions and we can have a bit of a discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.85,0:39:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment:] Wayde, I just want to say about the Stanley Park picture,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:07.50,0:39:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, hi everybody, my name's Vanessa,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:09.36,0:39:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I grew up in his city as well, and I know our family, the Caribbean community would meet in Stanley Park,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.08,0:39:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cricket matches used to look like that, and we used to have that many black people
Dialogue: 0,0:39:20.33,0:39:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Stanley Park{\u1}_{\u0} playing cricket, but...]
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.19,0:39:23.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Anyone take a picture?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.86,0:39:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.63,0:39:27.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[commenter: I know! I was thinking that, but I don't think we have one.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.48,0:39:30.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think I might have to take a little digging around for that]
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.96,0:39:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] What this shows me, that's the other thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.01,0:39:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the archive, this stuff is not in the city archives, right? There's some stuff there.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:36.63,0:39:43.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where it is right now is in family albums and in people's attics and things like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.34,0:39:45.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,...terrified if things get lost.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:45.29,0:39:51.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can see this is a damaged photo, but {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}, that keeps me awake nights
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.53,0:39:56.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thinking... what gets tossed out or thrown away or forgotten{\u1}_{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.73,0:40:00.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment] First of all, this is really great, very enlightening, but I have a question.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:00.25,0:40:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}{\u1}[can't make out] I was curious as to {\u1}{\u0}{\u0}{\u1}_any of this {\u1}{\u0}{\u0}_ archives ...
Dialogue: 0,0:40:10.35,0:40:16.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I take it that none of this was documented at that time, I don't know...
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.67,0:40:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was curious as to, is any of this in the municipal archives?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:19.51,0:40:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if so, why isn't it being implemented in the curriculum{\u1}_{\u0}]
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.56,0:40:25.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,...?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:25.94,0:40:33.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, like looking at maybe 2036, which is the {\u1}_{\u0} point, you know, getting this stuff...?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.57,0:40:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] It's interesting, you know, in terms of curriculum, it seems like the stuff about
Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.03,0:40:40.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the black pioneers, from Victoria, from the Gold Rush,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:40.68,0:40:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that's entered first or something like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.82,0:40:46.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've done a couple talks at high schools where I'm talking about that,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:46.11,0:40:48.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're like "yeah yeah we know, we did a section on that"
Dialogue: 0,0:40:48.07,0:40:53.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}?{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}_
Dialogue: 0,0:40:54.22,0:40:59.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe that was a special class, teacher.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.41,0:41:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, but it does seem like that's a little more well known,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.25,0:41:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} sort of the next thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:06.52,0:41:09.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In terms of the archives, I mean I know the archives are very open to acquiring this kind of stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:41:09.100,0:41:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a funny thing {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}_{\u0} at a certain point one of the members of the group,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.02,0:41:19.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, Sheilagh Cahill, was saying, we went to the archives, couldn't find much stuff,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.13,0:41:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she was saying, you know, they're not looking hard enough.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.63,0:41:25.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like, there's stuff in the back, stuff that got in boxes back there
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.82,0:41:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they just haven't found,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.60,0:41:29.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's something on he black community,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:29.00,0:41:30.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's gotta be, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.11,0:41:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was like, there's nothing in the back, it's not a conspiracy,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:32.18,0:41:34.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not trying to like keep it from us.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:34.01,0:41:35.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're archivists, if they've got a picture they'll put it up.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.78,0:41:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She's like, no no, they're not looking hard enough for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.60,0:41:41.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so she was, her prompting really, we wrote a letter to them
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.78,0:41:45.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying well we're this group, we're hoping that you have some material on the black community
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.48,0:41:47.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have very very little.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:47.62,0:41:51.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, I was more thinking this could get them to thinking about acquiring stuff, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.84,0:41:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it took a while, it was about a year later and they wrote back to me
Dialogue: 0,0:41:56.81,0:42:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they said, well, yknow, we got your letter and we were thinking about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:00.11,0:42:01.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you know, we looked through our files,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:01.60,0:42:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we found a box in the back.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:04.44,0:42:07.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.49,0:42:08.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I swear to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:08.42,0:42:11.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was the images from the expropriation.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:11.100,0:42:14.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the city's photographs they took of the,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:14.18,0:42:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the, um, buildings that were extant in the late 60's,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:18.22,0:42:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, to price them,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:20.19,0:42:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they found this huge thing {\u1}_{\u0}[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:42:22.37,0:42:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, yknow,...?...
Dialogue: 0,0:42:28.92,0:42:33.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But anyway, they were, they've also put up a big section on African Canadian stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:33.14,0:42:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They've actually, at that, before then it was really hard to find stuff,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.64,0:42:39.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because nothign was organized by the community, it was just,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.28,0:42:41.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you already had to know a person's name to find them, images of a black person
Dialogue: 0,0:42:41.83,0:42:46.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}and now, that's easier to find.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:46.13,0:42:47.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can go looking for the black community.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.45,0:42:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we still don't have a lot of stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:51.07,0:43:12.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment] People don't always recognize{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}?{\u0}{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.55,0:43:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah I think that's very true.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.37,0:43:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's partly why, um, yknow, it takes a person that's a bit outsiderish
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.92,0:43:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like myself, who's like yknow very light skinned, not a member of that particular community,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:23.89,0:43:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, my dad came as an immigrant in the 50's, he didn't live down there,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:28.20,0:43:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,um, an academic, they were a few steps removed from all of that stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.92,0:43:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partly, it takes a person who's kind of thinking of it in these cultural terms,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.73,0:43:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not just like their family's history sometimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.21,0:43:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Although, there are people who have hooked up with us who are
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.23,0:43:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the community, from the community, who were activists during that period,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:44.56,0:43:50.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they were much more interested in thinking culturally about it collectively
Dialogue: 0,0:43:50.11,0:44:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment, cannot make it out]
Dialogue: 0,0:44:00.85,0:44:05.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[anothe audience comment] {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} probably the oldest person in the room {\u1}_{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:44:05.17,0:44:10.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was born in Vancouver, in 1945,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:10.21,0:44:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I didn't know anything about Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.78,0:44:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, the only black person I ever heard about was Joe For...
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.36,0:44:19.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Joe Fortes
Dialogue: 0,0:44:19.89,0:44:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience commenter] because he, well my mom called him Joe Ford, he taught her to swim
Dialogue: 0,0:44:24.44,0:44:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Down at English Bay, when she came out from Winnipeg in I'd say she was 8,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:32.01,0:44:40.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that would've been in uh, 1916, they moved here from Winnipeg, and Joe For taught her to swim
Dialogue: 0,0:44:40.14,0:44:49.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was, as far as I knew, until I was in university and spent a lot of my time
Dialogue: 0,0:44:49.29,0:44:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}?{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}with the Caribbean students right?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:54.01,0:44:58.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean that was the only black {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} in Vancouver,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.34,0:45:17.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uh, until, so that would be mid 60's, early 60's. {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}?{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:45:17.66,0:45:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] It's funny, you get things like, in, um, Rosemary Brown's autobiography
Dialogue: 0,0:45:22.50,0:45:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she talks about, yknow, coming to the city with your husband in the 50's,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:27.42,0:45:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's this big chunk of autobiography where they're just like
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.57,0:45:33.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to rent from places, experiencing all this racism,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:33.55,0:45:35.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to figure Vancouver out,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.59,0:45:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're like, this is so weird, there's no black people in this city, it's bizarre.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.28,0:45:48.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then they, years, they bump into, uh, a black couple and they realize there's Hogan's Alley.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:48.15,0:45:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they realize there's this East End black community.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.73,0:45:51.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they really had no idea it was there.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.80,0:45:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's possible{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}__ the circles you're in.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:57.60,0:46:02.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience] Thank you, that was awesome. Um, I don't know if you have any answer to this,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.26,0:46:07.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but um I'm wondering if there's any specific stories or histories that you know of
Dialogue: 0,0:46:07.35,0:46:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the black community's relationship to other communities of colour,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:11.21,0:46:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,particularly Indigenous communities{\u1}_{\u0} it's not an easy answer,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:15.06,0:46:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and {\u1}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0} hearing some of the Chinese elders talk about some of the different stories
Dialogue: 0,0:46:21.15,0:46:25.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Chinese community's relationship to Indigenous communities in particular.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.43,0:46:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, during the race riots there was a lot of untold stories of the Musqueam and Squamish
Dialogue: 0,0:46:30.35,0:46:33.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking in a lot of folks from Chinatown during the race riots.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:33.69,0:46:37.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But at the same time, a lot of conflict around the laying of the railroads, of course.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.54,0:46:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm wondering if there are stories in the black community{\u1}{\u1}{\u0}_{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:46:40.37,0:46:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the relationship{\u1}_{\u0} Chinatown, or the Musqueam, Squamish, or particularly the relationship
Dialogue: 0,0:46:47.48,0:46:49.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}{\u1}?{\u0}{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}__.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:49.95,0:46:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah, well, in terms of BC, that's a very big question.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:54.86,0:46:57.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe I'll just talk about Vancouver specifically.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:57.56,0:47:00.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, it's kind of, it's a really interesting question.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.38,0:47:04.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's kind of one of the untold sides of the story, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.99,0:47:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\u1}_{\u0}that whole proximity to Chinatown, there's a whole lot of attraction for Chinese folks.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:09.37,0:47:11.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know Nora Hendrix talks about it kind of jokingly,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:11.35,0:47:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about trying to cook sould food while shopping in Chinatown
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.04,0:47:17.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience laughing]
Dialogue: 0,0:47:17.30,0:47:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it can be done, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.36,0:47:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:21.84,0:47:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd love to have some of those recipes.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.61,0:47:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See these are some of the things that are lost.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:26.29,0:47:30.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But yeah, there was a lot of interaction, um, and when we look at,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:30.85,0:47:37.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a photograph of the congregation, there's a later one, of the African Methodist Episcopal
Dialogue: 0,0:47:37.31,0:47:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,church that has some Asian faces in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:39.60,0:47:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you're like, I'd love to know who these people are, and what the interactions were like
Dialogue: 0,0:47:46.04,0:47:48.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just kind of here and there sporadically.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:48.43,0:47:50.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in terms of First Nations people,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:50.16,0:47:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is another one of those stories that I can't figure out where I heard this,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:54.01,0:47:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have the memory of it now, but I can't remember if I've read it somewhere,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:56.77,0:47:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or if somebody told it to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.81,0:48:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, um, somebody, um, said that at Vanier Park, like where um the um...
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.13,0:48:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Planetarium is, right, that that used to be called Brown Skin Beach, when Kits was,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:15.98,0:48:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So sites were segregated, Vancouver wasn't segregated as a city,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:20.53,0:48:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but sites were, and Kits Beach was,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:22.60,0:48:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so black folks and native folks couldn't got there to swim, probably Asians couldnt either,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:27.74,0:48:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And um, so they would go there, what was left of the beach there at Vanier Park,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:32.50,0:48:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was called Brown Skin Beach because that was where indians and black folks would go swim.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:37.73,0:48:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, I wish I could corroborate that, but it's one of those things you hear
Dialogue: 0,0:48:42.32,0:48:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you should have writen down where that was or who told you.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.69,0:48:48.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don't know. I haven't heard anything since,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:48.41,0:48:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if anybody knows anything more about that, let me know.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:50.92,0:48:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But yeah, it was such a mixed neighbourhood, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:56.91,0:48:59.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,James Douglas is {\u1}{\u1}{\u0} Victoria...{\u1}{\u0}{\u0}
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.42,0:49:11.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment, cannot make out]
Dialogue: 0,0:49:11.79,0:49:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] Yeah, he [Jimi Hendrix] was here sporadically, it was kind of like, it sounds like,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:15.87,0:49:20.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, his parents were pretty bad alcoholics and had lots of problems,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:20.98,0:49:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and um it sounds like when they, when things completely broke down in Seattle,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:26.02,0:49:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his dad would send him up to Vancouver to live with Nora.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:30.08,0:49:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so he was never here really for a long uninterrupted stretch of time.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:33.12,0:49:36.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was here long enough to go to school here, he went to elementary school
Dialogue: 0,0:49:36.75,0:49:38.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for awhile.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:38.52,0:49:43.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so, but it would be a portion of a school year, that kind of thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:43.14,0:49:47.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, and, mostly as a kidm when he was little.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:47.46,0:49:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And later on as a young man would start playing music and stuff like that, he would play up here.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:52.80,0:49:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he did a bunch of shows here, before he hit it really huge, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:56.51,0:50:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And um, there are stories of him playing The Smiling Buddha and places like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:00.04,0:50:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he was here, but it wasn't really like this was his home town.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:03.08,0:50:04.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was more like...
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.59,0:50:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[audience comment, cant make out]
Dialogue: 0,0:50:09.79,0:50:12.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wayde] I think becaue she [Nora Hendrix] was one of those people who was, her life really
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.62,0:50:15.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spans the whole history of the period.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:15.69,0:50:19.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was really here kind of at the beginning of it, very very early.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:19.27,0:50:24.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was here at the foundation of the church, helped to establish it,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:24.10,0:50:27.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and was here all throughout, and stayed in the East End.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:27.06,0:50:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was there, right up until her last days.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.80,0:50:33.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They did take her to Seattle, because she had no more family left, she outlived everybody.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:33.99,0:50:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they took her down to Seattle to die, but that's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:36.87,0:50:38.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Apparently, on here death bed she was saying
Dialogue: 0,0:50:38.59,0:50:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK I gotta get better so I can go back home to Canada.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.91,0:50:46.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And um, so she was in Strathcona right up until the end.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:46.44,0:50:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So she's sort of this person who just saw everything, just this repository of all this information
Dialogue: 0,0:50:51.74,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the community.