Why are you here?
Just to express my discontent
and to be with the people
and to support the movement actually.
Because it's a great movement, there's a good power in there.
Partly to show my support
with this current global protest
a part from my own conviction that
it's time to wake up in Europe and over the whole world
and pausing over what has happened in our economy
with bank situations, in fact, the current crisis.
I'm here but I live in Leuven and I wanted to a have a moment
to manifest my indignation since Spain,
because I'm from Spain and I'm 'Indignada'
and I'm here to do exactly as I would have done in Spain, but here.
And why are you really indignant?
Because in Spain, politics are playing jokes with us,
with the people,
we need change, the economy, politics, everything.
We need change.
For me, I'm in this manifestation because it's part of a
global movement against speculation, finance, the crisis, especially
and the measure that have been taken 3 years ago,
and those that are responsible for this crisis.
We have to change.
That's why I'm here.
And why do you feel we need to change?
When I look around, I see a lot of problems
and that's why we need to change.
Because I'm a worker and fear for my future.
Like most people that are here.
You put your money on the bank,
you don't know what will happen with it,
You risk not having a pension tomorrow,
in short, this is not normal you see.
I believe we need to change the neo-liberal mentality of our country,
this democracy has gone bad and we want a more direct approach.
And this is what we want, we want change.
I'm here to protest against all that is going wrong
with the banks,
the political and financial system mixup,
I want to have this thoroughly checked.
But I want to do it in a positive way,
not only being 'anti' but having a positive outlook,
a positive alternative.
I am from Brussels and I am too part of a social movement called
'Attack', and we naturally share a part of the analysis,
like what the 'Indignada' have determined in Spain,
that we have a serious problem with this democracy,
even though we got through it with this democracy,
this is a message we firmly support.
At the same time, like most people are aware and have determined
for themselves, the serious financial crisis is related to the banks
and the capitalistic crisis.
And this manifestation is in line with our movement,
so this is why we are here.
To protest in principle, to protest for change.
We're not okay with how the European and state budgets
have been divided.
In all, to protest because we want change.
To protest against capitalism, the current economic system.
And the current crisis.
To support the revolution.
What are you currently mainly discontent about?
Actually, about how we've been promised,
we've been promised something which is not only about money.
But is is a unique idea and now that, like Greece,
this single interruption can collapse the whole thing,
and this can't be.
I don't like to be foolished with.
The way money is used, is one of the main reasons.
Is money the cause of the problem?
I don't know whether it is the money
or how the politicians use it,
maybe they don't use it in a good way, I don't know.
But the people need to come together
and think about new ideas on how to change these things.
It's not really the money,
it's mostly how the money is used.
The value of things,
we have to rethink the value of things we buy.
We have to rethink quite a lot of things.
And I think this is the time for really thinking about
the future, the type of money, the means of exchange
between people and merchandise.
But money, no, it's the people using it the wrong way.
For the well being of people who are important
it's profit.
On all levels, and certainly at the higher levels.
If you are a small saver, today,
you could as well do like your grandparents
and put your money in a sock or underneath your mattress.
You have nothing.
It is solely for the stock exchange, capitalism
and the grand fortunes.
The regular people have no rights,
just work and not even being able to age
in a dignified manner after having worked
so hard, I believe.
The corruption.
The lack of education and poverty.
The problem, which we face, is the "hidden hand",
the control of your economic life.
But also more and more your social life by the
monetary forces and thus the capitalistic system itself
that in order to transform it radically,
but behind all this, if we want a true democracy,
which is for me the most important,
because, for the moment we and the population
don't have the means to really push through reforms and
the politic system that is representative, like we have it today,
has in my opinion, completely, failed.
And thus we have to show that more and more
there is a growing distance between the representative
politics and the wishes of the people.
This is more and more obvious.
And thus the problem, the democratic crisis,
is for me, the heart of the problem
that should be resolved urgently.
I think that politics are here to help us,
to do the work, to direct the country.
So if they see a negative response from the people,
then they should be able to change.
That's the objective, I think.
It's the monetary system that
creates all those problems and
its a certainty that this system will have problems.
With debts, interests,
it just can't work on the long term.
We can't have a system that exploits
resources infinitely on a finite planet, like our current system.
The financial system,
the banks, money,
we don't really need it.
We can perfectly do without.
Do you think that our financial system
is the cause of most problems like
corruption, ..
The system itself, no,
but the people that are operating it.
The companies that only think about the profit
and not the people.
So, making more profit
and less for the people.
The government that currently does everything
to help the banks but not the people.
Do we have a real democracy?
I think in Europe, probably more
than in other parts of the world.
But still, politics has been dead for some time
and there's not much we can add to it.
Everything is being driven by money
and steered by lobbying and rating bureaus.
They currently decide how things go,
they give value to things
and whether it is true or not,
apparently everybody just goes along with it.
So yes, no.
It doesn't exist.
It's a joke.
We have a fake democracy but, ..
A fake democracy, yes.
It's a game,
a puppet show and we are the puppets.
That's what it boils down to.
We don't a lot of influence, ..
We have no influence
unless we do actions like these.
But not by voting, that doesn't influence anything.
Only getting on the streets and making your voice heard?
Yes and changing course,
how we go about it on a daily basis.
We have to stop and do things a different way.
Normally, in a democracy, this is how it should be done.
So it's us, the people, that vote and
that should be able to decide.
The deciders should decide what the people have chosen.
And not the other way around.
No, it's not a correct democracy,
that's it, it's not a direct democracy.
And that is what we want,
we want change and that's why we are here for.
And its a social phenomena, like you said,
its everywhere on this planet, not only in Brussels.
I don't think so.
We get to vote every 4 years
but what does that vote count for when
they just do things the people don't support.
So, I fear that is not the case.
A true democracy, like we have created it, yes.
With the votes, majority rule,
this is still how it is.
But isn't the question that
if this democracy system we created,
really is a true democracy or not.
And here, we all agree,
well most of us are, that there is a lack of
respect for the minority in this type of democracy.
So we can't really call this a democracy.
No, I don't think so.
We need a true world democracy.
Do you think we can really change things
with movements like these?
I think we can change things, yes,
otherwise I wouldn't be here.
And it's not a question be able to but having to.
I believe that there is more people on this planet
that start to be aware of the fact that another
society is not only possible but necessary.
For the planet, for society,
for the future of generations to come.
So, we can change things,
history of mankind is a sequence of movements
changing things and we are part
of that history and its movement.
I believe that have to start the change,
that's why we are in the streets.
We have to ferment this idea of change
and the manifestations, that's how it begins.
We have to change it together,
because it can't work any differently.
We depend completely on politics,
we think we have a voice,
that we live in a democracy,
but actually we don't have a lot to say.
We have to show that we are 99% of the people
and not the 1% of the rich or the establishment.
So if we, in all solidarity, make them feel
that we do not agree,
maybe then we'll be able to drive change.
Because I think that it is about time for this.
Yes, for me this is more than just a local movement,
I believe that, if you check the website, 15october.net,
there are more than 900 cities that have manifestations today,
so it's clearly more than a local movement.
For me, this is a global movement.
We can already show the non participants that
there are many people that are against capitalism
and also show that they have to open their eyes,
that we can change things and that there are solutions.
Do you think that money makes you happy?
No, not at all.
For me personally, it doesn't really matter.
Does it make happy?
In the current system, yes, maybe.
We live in a type of illusion that money makes you happy.
So everybody just heads towards that goal,
but for me it's not a must for happyness.
I have other things that make me happy.
People need money,
you need money,
but don't be corrupt.
You make your money and
you are responsible to use it in a good manner.
Money shouldn't be concentrated in
a small percentage like the politicians and such.
That's bad.
You need a little but,
I would rather live in a world without money.
If that were to be possible.
And I do think that now is the time
to really think about it.
The capitalistic system might
have shown its usefulness but,
it is now time for change.
Because it just can't go on like this,
it will excluded itself and
we'll have to have an alternative ready
or else there might be violent protests
or even a war.
I don't think that buying lots of stuff
makes us more happy or that money creates happyness.
It's sharing, friendship, love between all people.
It's not money. Money is a tool that
has been exploited by the more cunning
and has been exploited to such a level that
this is the result of it. It just can't continue like this.
Can you imagine a world without money?
A world without money?
Yes, I can imagine it and it is a nice aspiration
like a world without goverment, without leader,
without control, without injustice.
We're far from it but that doesn't mean
we shouldn't continue towards that direction.
I believe that the first steps to take
to arrive at such a world is
to regain control of the big multinationals,
the big financial corporations,
and put them under control of the people,
the workers, the syndicates,
those are the first steps to go towards
a world without money.
It's nice goal but you need intermediate steps.
What are the basic human needs?
Simply, the primary needs should be provided,
food and drinks for everyone,
a roof over your head, education,
and being able to spend your free time
on things that interest you without being a wage slave,
so we can spend our days doing better things
than what we are today and do things you like
and like doing.
Not doing a job against your will,
7 days on 7, ..
I personally believe that such a society,
should assure that everyone on this planet,
and we can do it,
has a roof/house, work, we need work for the
community, free healthcare, education, certainly
for the children, and on the day we achieve
those thing, then we can talk about moving forward
but we're far from it, we have people without
homes, homeless people, and like we see in Greece,
the health of the population is in free fall because
of the austerity measures, we first need to
regain all terrains that we can,
and if we are able to do that it would be because
of the mass of people and then we can ask ourselves,
where we go from here.
But now is the resistance before we can move forward, afterwards.
Me, I walk around, I see a lot of people on the street,
beggars, and I think that, it does make me indignant.
I am not happy walking around in a city where
we encounter beggars every corner, I think that
all humans have the right to dignity.
It's not that those people disturb me,
it just should not exist anymore.
These people should have a dignified and normal life.
Like for everyone, a roof, work, good wages that permit them
to live a life dignified.
The first thing we should do is to undo ourselves
from the dominating ideology coming from
advertising, consuming, the desire to consume that is
being forced upon us all the time and is at the same time
a desire that will never be fulfilled so we need to undo
ourselves from this approach and go back
to the fundamentals and retake,
get away from this thought, imprinted individualism,
and return to the consideration that we are
members of a society and think more along those lines.
This will give us more satisfaction unlike individualism
that is the cause of a lot of the frustration.
Now we hope that there will be a political response,
so that we are not forced to make the change,
but I'm afraid that if we don't get any answer soon,
that we should take matters in our own hands.
To have a sustainable society based on sharing,
really, a change of values for humanity.
It's when we become violent (like war) to achieve certain things
that we're departing from the wrong basics,
and we don't want that, we want peace for everyone.
What do you think makes you happy?
Personal relationships..
Connecting with other people?
Yeah,
actually there is a great power in this globalizing world,
this European idea, we can't allow it to fall apart.
Creating things, making music, working in the garden,
seeing plants grow, helping people,
this makes me happy.
Seeing the results of those things,
this what I think, makes it worth it.
Everybody is different, but for me,
it is my degree, I'm a student in psychology,
being happy, but it's complicated.
And you?
That's for another interview..
What makes you happy?
What makes me happy?
My family, my friends, feeling connected to other people,
certainly not money.
You need money in this world to buy stuff,
but its not what makes me happy.
Just enough money to eat, have a normal life, I think.
Have your basic needs met,
Yeah, basic needs,
what people need.
I think so.
When everyone is happy.
People around you?
Everyone.
Everyone?
Everyone.
I would like that everyone is happy.
That everyone has some to live with,
dignified.
That is also my happyness.
But while we are doing this,
we should at least try to enjoy life,
the everyday life,
and I think that we shouldn't separate those two things,
because I would say that, simply revolting is
positive on an activism level, but staying in that
type of attitude might not be pleasant,
there is no reason that we shouldn't also take joy
in everyday life while we try to transform things.
Well here today, I'm very influenced when I see
that everyone is united and everyone agrees,
that is what makes me happy.
Being here with everyone,
with all people that want change like me.
Freedom,
For you personally?
Absolutely,
And are there other things?
Yes, of course,
Eating, drinking, water, the most important needs,
and not cars, bling-bling, none of those things.
Thank you for the interview.
Thank you.
Thank you for the interview.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you for the interview.
Thanks very much!
Thanks for the interview.
You're welcome.
Thanks for this interview.
You're welcome.
Thanks for this interview.
Thanks very much for this interview.
And thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks for this interview.
You're welcome.
Right when we were about to leave,
we noticed a special van.
You go and I'll follow you,
its around my head now,
Flyer in there.
You're going to hand a DVD?
Hurry!
What's her name again?
I have no idea.
Come one!
Excuse me?
Excuse me,
can I give you this DVD?
It's a very interesting documentary,
made by an American producer,
and from this documentary a social movement has spawned,
The Zeitgeist Movement,
a global movement.
And we are now here to promote this social movement
and we would like it very much that this documentary
would be shown on Canvas, but check it out first,
and let it surprise you, alright, thanks.
Thanks and good luck!
Information is everywhere!
This van belongs to the VRT (Flemish Radio & Television)
Let's hope they will check out Zeitgeist: Moving Forward!
Thanks for this interview.
Zeitgeist!