Cold Fusion, E-CAT - 2011, October 6th
directed by Massimo Brega, Interviews by Raymond Zreick
E-Cat, the water test: Bologna, 2011, October 6th.
Andrea Rossi's E-Cat, a cold fusion device designed to produce plenty of cheap power
is about to be tested again.
THE WATER TEST - It must prove to be able to work in self substained mode and warm up running water.
This is the most complete test they've had so far:
will the scientist be satisfied?
Andrea Rossi, E-Cat's father: "In the foregoing public tests
we measured the output energy during the steam stage:
it was more complicated, and generated discussions,
pointless discussions, if you ask me.
Today's measurement tecnique is much easier:
the steam goes through a heat exchanger
and warms up running water.
The output energy is measured on this second water circuit, on liquid water.
This make it easier to measure it."
Do you think this is the best test Rossi ever arranged?
Christos Stremmenos, physicist and chemist: "This test is clear, unmistakable
with regards to the energy output.
I mean thermic energy."
Which results do you expect from this test?
"An E-Cat such this one should produce around 3-4 kW of power."
Is this test arranged for new potential business partners?
"We have many potential business partners
but this test is not for them.
It is not a business oriented test.
Our potential business partners are not here."
TESTS IN THE U.S.A.?
There have been rumors about you testing the E-Cat with the NASA...
"No, I didn't. It's a blunder.
We had many tests in the USA:
Leonardo Corp. is based there
which is the company that produces these devices.
But we had no tests with the NASA.
I met the NASA: we talked, we started up negotiations
but no test."
Where does the idea of the E-Cat come from?
"I designed the device.
Professor Focardi provided very important advice
with regard to nuclear physics
but the device is designed and produced by Leonardo Corp.
I invented it."
How far is the E-Cat from Sergio Focardi's works?
Sergio Focardi, physicist: "Quite far.
First of all, my works were quite rough
my devices were hand made in a University context
nobody ever funded my research because
in everybody's opinion that phenomenon didn't exist."
What do the E-Cat and Focardi's work have in common?
"They both work with hydrogen and nickel
these are the main ingredients.
Here there is some kind of additive that enhances the reaction
we didn't have that, and we also didn't know the reaction that well."
Will the E-Cat be able to draw the scientific world's attention?
"Yes, and that's why:
the E-Cat works thanks to a nuclear fusion phenomenon
between nickel and hydrogen
at low temperature, not higher that a few hundreds degrees [Celsius].
It's a nuclear neaction.
Well, the scientific world thinks that nuclear reactions [such this one]
only happen inside the stars."
What is the scientific world's attitude?
"Many colleagues still don't believe in our results
because they think it's impossible!
But their attitude is incredible, it goes against science.
Science teaches that if you prove something, then it's true."
What is the reason of such distrust?
Mats Lewan, journalist (NyTeknik): "If this works, it's going to need a new physics.
The core of this reactor is of the size of a potato:
not big enough to hold fuel inside itself
and produce heat thanks to a chemical reaction. It must be a nuclear reaction,
'cause only a nuclear reaction can produce so much power in such a small room.
Nuclear reaction are a million times more powerfull then chemical ones,
per atom, per mass.
And we don't know any nuclear reaction that produces this kind of power in this way
therefore it will need a new physics."
What can we expect from this kind of technology?
"It could help finding the solutions to many problems
energy problems, but other fields might also be involved.
In general terms, when a new technology is born
we know, by experience, that it's almost impossible to imagine
the consequences it might generate.
We're almost never able to imagine the final results it might lead to.
Take the laser, for instance: who would have imagined
it would bring to dvd players?
Nobody, and that's just an example.
Who invented the phonograph didn't think of music business.
It's hard to tell what it might lead to in the long run.
In the short run, it produces heat
and with heat you can warm up buildings, for instance, or even cool them.
With heat you can produce air conditioning.
And, very important, you can boil water, and desalinate sea water
producing clean water all over the world.
This would be a revolution itself."
The E-Cat would be a revolution. Did anybody tried to meddle or stop you?
"Well, yes, this technology could lead to consequences both important and complicated.
Someone tried to interfere, but it wasn't a big problem, and it didn't stop us from going on with our operations."
At the end of the test, the "secret ingredient" is still a mistery...
"The black box where the heating reaction takes place
it should be about the size of a potato:
50 cm3.
We can't look inside it."
Why do you need to use electric power at the beginning of the test?
It warms a resistance up
and the resistance warms up the reactor, it triggers the reaction.
If i got it right, the reaction begins
when the reactor reaches a temperature of about 60°
something like that.
With this setup, the electric power is fed to the device for a long time
to make the reaction stable
so that later we can switch the electric power off."
What does it mean that the E-Cat works in self substained mode?
"At first, Rossi switches the electric power off for about 10 minutes.
Then he swithces it on, and after a while he switches it off again.
He keeps on switching it off and on for a while,
it seems that this is necessary to make the reaction stable.
Then he switches it completely off, except fot the power that feeds the control console
which uses about 100 W, not more than a light bulb does.
It's been working in self substained mode for a couple of hours now."
Mats Lewan thought that Rossi should have had the test running on till late night...
Instead, he shut the E-Cat down around 19:30
"I hope the E-Cat will be working in self substained mode for at least two more hours
we could shut it down around 22, 23, even midnight.
After that, we'd still have to wait [before we can open it]:
to end the reaction, you have to take the hydrogen off the reactor
but it will still produce heat for a while even so."
Mats Lewan noted down all measurements on his notepad.
How is the test going?
"If we can trust the measures we see,
we have a certain water flow rate,
a centain delta T between the input and output water.
If the numbers are corrects
the output power is around 4-5 kW.
Watt measure power. Energy is how much is piled up during a certaind amount of time.
Input power (electric power) was around 2,5 kW:
half the output power.
In theory, one could say that the E-Cat stores
the electric power you feed it in the beginning
to use it later.
But if it works in self substained mode for many hours,
that is not an option anymore."
Are you satisfied with the results? Did everything go as you expected?
"Today's test went well, i'm satisfied enough
even if I saw a few imperfections I'll have to fix."
Did these imperfections affect the results?
"No. Engeneering reached its final stages.
No, we know it works,
we were already sure it worked, when we took the measurements from the steam.
We know what we're doing. I think we are on the right path."
What about tomorrow?
"The next step is the start up of this 1 MW plant we're in right now."
E-Cat succesful or not?
The scientists who were at the test are satisfied:
The E-Cat worked on self substained mode for 3 hours and a half
and the first numbers confirm it can produce power by itself.
Nevertheless most of the scientific world is still sceptical about the results
and has doubts about the reliability and the setup of the test.
Andrea Rossi answers these critiques on Focus.it:
"I won't give any other demonstration.
I'm going to hit the market, our customers will speak for us!"
All the updates on E-Cat, Andrea Rossi and cold fusion on www.focus.it
subs by Irene Zreick