1
00:00:00,163 --> 00:00:05,239
... outside of what, uh, seems really comfortable and familiar to you,

2
00:00:05,239 --> 00:00:08,742
and launch out into some real, for you, unknown territory.

3
00:00:08,742 --> 00:00:10,043
And you haven't gone out there,

4
00:00:10,043 --> 00:00:14,314
like you haven't, you know, gotten in proximity to black people as you say,

5
00:00:14,314 --> 00:00:16,517
because you don't have to.

6
00:00:16,517 --> 00:00:19,687
And that's part of what it means to be American to me,

7
00:00:19,687 --> 00:00:23,357
is to have all these things that you can do if you want to,

8
00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:26,761
that you don't have to do if you don't want... don't wanna do,

9
00:00:26,761 --> 00:00:32,232
and there's a way in which American, and white, and human, become synonyms.

10
00:00:32,232 --> 00:00:35,202
That "why can't we just treat each other as human beings?",

11
00:00:35,202 --> 00:00:36,897
to me, when I hear it from a white person,

12
00:00:36,897 --> 00:00:39,139
means "why can't we all just pretend to be white people.?

13
00:00:39,139 --> 00:00:43,243
I'll pretend you're a white person, [laughing] and then you can pretend to be white"

14
00:00:43,243 --> 00:00:44,745
"why don't you eat what i eat?"

15
00:00:44,745 --> 00:00:45,979
"why don't you drink what I drink?"

16
00:00:45,979 --> 00:00:47,515
"why don't you think like I think?"

17
00:00:47,515 --> 00:00:49,750
"why don't you FEEL LIKE I FEEL?"

18
00:00:49,750 --> 00:00:54,033
"GOD DAMMIT I'M SO SICK AND GODDAMNED TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THAT."

19
00:00:54,033 --> 00:00:55,389
"I'M SICK OF THAT".

20
00:00:55,389 --> 00:00:57,691
That's what it means to be human beings to me,

21
00:00:57,691 --> 00:00:59,327
that's what it means to be white,

22
00:00:59,327 --> 00:01:00,694
that's what it means to be American,

23
00:01:00,694 --> 00:01:02,396
why don't you come the hell over here,

24
00:01:02,396 --> 00:01:04,668
that's what I hear every goddamned day,

25
00:01:04,668 --> 00:01:06,199
and you know that I can't come over there,

26
00:01:06,199 --> 00:01:07,534
you know that this skin,

27
00:01:07,534 --> 00:01:08,535
and that this hair,

28
00:01:08,535 --> 00:01:09,970
and that this way that I talk

29
00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:10,871
and I think

30
00:01:10,871 --> 00:01:11,538
and I feel

31
00:01:11,538 --> 00:01:12,306
will never

32
00:01:12,306 --> 00:01:13,373
ever

33
00:01:13,373 --> 00:01:14,241
get included

34
00:01:14,241 --> 00:01:16,677
because I'm unpalatable to this goddamn nation.

35
00:01:16,677 --> 00:01:17,711
I'm unpalatable.

36
00:01:17,711 --> 00:01:18,746
You cannot swallow me.

37
00:01:18,746 --> 00:01:19,847
You cannot taste me.

38
00:01:19,847 --> 00:01:22,049
You cannot tell me because you don't want to.

39
00:01:22,049 --> 00:01:23,940
You think that you can survive without me,

40
00:01:23,940 --> 00:01:24,785
but you can't, man.

41
00:01:24,785 --> 00:01:27,121
You think, and you think that,

42
00:01:27,121 --> 00:01:31,926
hey it'll all be fine when we just treat each other like human beings.

43
00:01:31,926 --> 00:01:35,529
And what that says to me is: don't be yourself, be like me.

44
00:01:35,529 --> 00:01:36,830
Keep me comfortable,

45
00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:38,899
connect when I'm ready to connect,

46
00:01:38,899 --> 00:01:41,268
come out to my place,

47
00:01:41,268 --> 00:01:45,405
or maybe I'll come down and get some artifacts from your place.

48
00:01:45,405 --> 00:01:46,840
Uh uh.

49
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,878
That is bullshit.

50
00:01:50,878 --> 00:01:53,852
[breathing heavily]

51
00:02:03,414 --> 00:02:05,626
When you say that your ethicity is American,

52
00:02:05,626 --> 00:02:10,831
there is no American ethnicity.

53
00:02:10,831 --> 00:02:14,301
You had to throw away your ethnicity to become American.

54
00:02:14,301 --> 00:02:18,405
That's what it means.

55
00:02:18,405 --> 00:02:19,573
That's what it means.

56
00:02:19,573 --> 00:02:22,610
You give up who you are to become American.

57
00:02:22,610 --> 00:02:25,012
And you can pretend that it's ok because you're white.

58
00:02:25,012 --> 00:02:27,348
When we give up who we are to become American,

59
00:02:27,348 --> 00:02:29,885
we know that we're dying from it.

60
00:02:29,885 --> 00:02:33,454
You're dying from it too, but you don't know it necessarily.

61
00:02:33,454 --> 00:02:35,777
Get ethnic, y'know?

62
00:02:40,752 --> 00:02:44,464
Y'know, I'm not gonna trust you until you're as willing to be changed

63
00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:46,933
and affected by my experience,

64
00:02:46,933 --> 00:02:48,702
and transformed by my experience,

65
00:02:48,702 --> 00:02:51,010
as I am every day by yours.

66
00:02:51,272 --> 00:02:55,609
I attended a school for the first time that was predominantly white,

67
00:02:55,609 --> 00:02:57,711
and I had white teachers,

68
00:02:57,711 --> 00:02:59,792
and I walked into the classroom,

69
00:02:59,792 --> 00:03:03,117
and there were 3 reading groups in my 5th grade classroom,

70
00:03:03,117 --> 00:03:06,453
and I was promptly put into the lowest reading group.

71
00:03:06,453 --> 00:03:07,854
And I gathered very quickly

72
00:03:07,854 --> 00:03:12,359
that that was because I'm of African and American descent.

73
00:03:12,359 --> 00:03:14,467
Then they put me in the internediate reading group,

74
00:03:14,467 --> 00:03:16,663
and then they put me into the highest reading group,

75
00:03:16,663 --> 00:03:19,700
and y'know, I just boiled and churned through the whole process

76
00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:23,820
because my reading level was higher than anything they had in the classroom.

77
00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:26,373
I'm always dealing with you.

78
00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:27,708
I'm always dealing with you.

79
00:03:27,708 --> 00:03:28,909
You don't deal with him,

80
00:03:28,909 --> 00:03:30,277
you don't deal with me,

81
00:03:30,277 --> 00:03:32,947
maybe you had an opportunity to deal with some Latino people,

82
00:03:32,947 --> 00:03:35,516
but we always deal with you, baby.

83
00:03:35,516 --> 00:03:37,184
Always.

84
00:03:37,184 --> 00:03:38,618
Every day.

85
00:03:38,618 --> 00:03:39,686
In the ride up here,

86
00:03:39,686 --> 00:03:42,923
it's like oh man where are we now?

87
00:03:42,923 --> 00:03:47,094
Oh god! I hate being out of the city.

88
00:03:47,094 --> 00:03:51,231
Because I know who's out here... you all.

89
00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:52,632
Or at least I know who's in charge,

90
00:03:52,632 --> 00:03:55,002
even if there's other people out here,

91
00:03:55,002 --> 00:03:57,771
I know who's in charge,

92
00:03:57,771 --> 00:04:02,309
and I don't know anywhere where I can find some safety that I can rely upon.

93
00:04:02,309 --> 00:04:04,511
When I'm out here.

94
00:04:04,511 --> 00:04:07,548
You know, I'm real glad I got to the house before sundown.

95
00:04:07,548 --> 00:04:11,051
[Loren] yeah, it's like shark-infested waters.

96
00:04:11,051 --> 00:04:11,918
[David C] Really?

97
00:04:11,918 --> 00:04:13,286
[Loren] Yes, definitely.

98
00:04:13,286 --> 00:04:14,932
It doesn't have to be said.

99
00:04:14,932 --> 00:04:15,722
It can be felt,

100
00:04:15,722 --> 00:04:17,402
it's... intuitive.

101
00:04:19,063 --> 00:04:23,597
It's... hard to explain to someone who doesn't have to go through it,

102
00:04:23,597 --> 00:04:27,468
but, you know, I've traveled down south,

103
00:04:27,468 --> 00:04:30,704
and y'know... just that feeling...

104
00:04:30,704 --> 00:04:33,240
like you said, you get... you know...

105
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,009
drive through Kentucky and Tennessee

106
00:04:35,009 --> 00:04:37,578
and see the Appalachian mountains up ahead of you,

107
00:04:37,578 --> 00:04:42,582
and know you want to get through those mountains so fast without stopping for anything,

108
00:04:42,582 --> 00:04:45,087
because you don't know if you'll get out.

109
00:04:45,318 --> 00:04:47,087
Driving through Ukiah,

110
00:04:47,087 --> 00:04:51,591
a big pickup was behind me with a gun rack on the back, you know?

111
00:04:51,591 --> 00:04:52,959
I was nervous.

112
00:04:52,959 --> 00:04:57,431
And there was... and I've never been hurt by somebody on the freeway with a gun rack,

113
00:04:57,431 --> 00:05:00,934
you know, that's never happened to me, but the fear is still there.

114
00:05:00,934 --> 00:05:02,536
The fear is still there,

115
00:05:02,536 --> 00:05:05,005
because I know it can happen.

116
00:05:05,005 --> 00:05:06,240
I know it can happen

117
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,548
because it has happened.

118
00:05:07,548 --> 00:05:11,044
Not to me, but to people who look just like me.

119
00:05:11,044 --> 00:05:14,194
Or who don't look just like me.

120
00:05:14,748 --> 00:05:16,697
I've got the fear.

121
00:05:16,697 --> 00:05:18,051
I don't want to stop.

122
00:05:18,051 --> 00:05:21,655
I don't want to be out on a road around here.

123
00:05:21,655 --> 00:05:25,158
I tell ya, it's scary, with the gun racks.

124
00:05:25,158 --> 00:05:26,293
I've done workshops...

125
00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:27,561
[David C] Do you kow what the gun racks are all about?

126
00:05:27,561 --> 00:05:28,462
[Gordon] Can I...

127
00:05:28,462 --> 00:05:30,304
[David C] Sure Gordon.

128
00:05:30,304 --> 00:05:31,665
[Gordon] Because this is my experience.

129
00:05:31,665 --> 00:05:33,369
I don't feel safe with those people.

130
00:05:33,369 --> 00:05:35,135
And that's a stereotype about me,

131
00:05:35,135 --> 00:05:38,505
and people who have gun racks and pickup trucks,

132
00:05:38,505 --> 00:05:41,308
but I've had, I used to do a workshop in this area,

133
00:05:41,308 --> 00:05:44,411
a little further east from here called the Mill Experience,

134
00:05:44,411 --> 00:05:49,549
and I had 7 shotgun holes through the sign that I had out on the road,

135
00:05:49,549 --> 00:05:51,384
and picked up the shells and still got em.

136
00:05:51,384 --> 00:05:57,725
I can't feel what I know Victor feels up here,

137
00:05:57,725 --> 00:06:00,728
but I got a piece of it.

138
00:06:00,728 --> 00:06:02,429
It's just scary.

139
00:06:02,429 --> 00:06:04,361
And I don;t know how to deal with it.

140
00:06:05,032 --> 00:06:08,802
When my father hit Texas, he never stopped,

141
00:06:08,802 --> 00:06:11,672
he went straight through Texas.

142
00:06:11,672 --> 00:06:12,739
We didn't stop,

143
00:06:12,739 --> 00:06:15,041
well we must have stopped for food, I can't believe that,

144
00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:16,509
but I don't remember stopping.

145
00:06:16,509 --> 00:06:18,712
I know we didn't stop to sleep.

146
00:06:18,712 --> 00:06:22,847
I mean, it's like he wanted to get out of that state as fast as he could.

147
00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:28,222
I had no comprehension... and especially from you,

148
00:06:28,222 --> 00:06:29,356
you Latinos,

149
00:06:29,356 --> 00:06:33,834
that you are frightened to come up highway 101.

150
00:06:33,834 --> 00:06:37,564
That is, uh, in my opinion, unfounded.

151
00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:40,793
An unfounded fear and apprehension on your parts.

152
00:06:41,101 --> 00:06:42,269
Unfounded??

153
00:06:42,269 --> 00:06:43,436
There's that word again...

154
00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:45,238
This valley is not hostile to Latinos.

155
00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:49,175
[Loren Moye] How can you say that? You're not Latino?

156
00:06:49,576 --> 00:06:51,878
No, it's not hostile to Latinos.

157
00:06:51,878 --> 00:06:53,179
[David L] Can I just...

158
00:06:53,179 --> 00:07:00,254
[David C] And Victor and Loren here are expressing feelings that

159
00:07:00,254 --> 00:07:06,226
I... I'm afraid that these feelings, there will be no progress, and no change in racism.

160
00:07:06,226 --> 00:07:09,263
The fear of colour will remain

161
00:07:09,263 --> 00:07:11,643
the gap isn't being bridged here.

162
00:07:12,628 --> 00:07:15,001
[Loren] I thought Victor explained that very clearly,

163
00:07:15,001 --> 00:07:18,171
that we ... we've changed, as far as we're gonna change...

164
00:07:18,509 --> 00:07:20,640
Yeah, and you're expecting a change from the white person...

165
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:21,908
[Loren] Exactly.

166
00:07:21,908 --> 00:07:28,248
And I'm saying to you, you're the same as I am, and you don't believe that.

167
00:07:28,248 --> 00:07:32,352
And I think that that really may be more predominant than you think.

168
00:07:32,352 --> 00:07:34,716
But what about guys like Colin Powell?

169
00:07:34,716 --> 00:07:37,724
[others laughing]

170
00:07:37,724 --> 00:07:39,626
You know... why do you laugh about that?

171
00:07:39,626 --> 00:07:42,379
[Loren] I'm not laughing. I think it's a serious issue.

172
00:07:42,379 --> 00:07:44,398
He did make it, but what did he make?

173
00:07:44,398 --> 00:07:48,201
There are many professors in the California college system that are coloured,

174
00:07:48,201 --> 00:07:50,003
and they're respected and...

175
00:07:50,003 --> 00:07:51,671
[Victor] "Coloured".

176
00:07:51,671 --> 00:07:54,841
Well... what... African American, Chinese, and Latino, what do you want me to do?

177
00:07:54,841 --> 00:07:56,443
Let's lump it all together in one term, coloured.

178
00:07:56,443 --> 00:07:57,077
I'm coloured,

179
00:07:57,077 --> 00:07:57,610
I'm white.

180
00:07:57,610 --> 00:07:59,079
You called me white, and I'm a colour.

181
00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:01,815
[Loren] Let's go back to Colin Powell, Colin Powell's responsible for killing...

182
00:08:01,815 --> 00:08:03,717
This is emotional, and this is totally normal,

183
00:08:03,717 --> 00:08:07,054
and, to be so emotional about this topic.

184
00:08:07,054 --> 00:08:09,156
And I think I feel a lot of frustration here David,

185
00:08:09,156 --> 00:08:16,430
and I think, um, you have to listen to our experiences because they're valid.

186
00:08:16,430 --> 00:08:19,399
I believe that, they are valid for you...

187
00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:21,735
Well I don't think you do, because, let me tell you why I don't think you do.

188
00:08:21,735 --> 00:08:24,904
It souds like, you're bouncing it back to them and saying

189
00:08:24,904 --> 00:08:29,743
"it's your problem, why do you guys act like this? You guys can drive down the street , down highway 101..."

190
00:08:29,743 --> 00:08:32,179
[David C] And I can go into Chinatown...

191
00:08:32,179 --> 00:08:33,247
[David L] No. Listen to me...

192
00:08:33,247 --> 00:08:34,448
[David C] ...and be frightened to death...

193
00:08:34,448 --> 00:08:37,317
[David L] Well, listen to me, part of, I mean, when I drove...

194
00:08:37,317 --> 00:08:40,087
[David C] And I do get frightened...

195
00:08:40,087 --> 00:08:42,689
[David L] You gotta listen to me.

196
00:08:42,689 --> 00:08:44,057
[Yutaka] Breathe.

197
00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:45,759
[David C taking a deep breath]

198
00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:48,361
[David L] When I drive down highway 101, you know, I didn't feel quite comfortable either.

199
00:08:48,361 --> 00:08:49,162
[David C] Really?

200
00:08:49,162 --> 00:08:51,765
[David L] No, but let me tell you my experience, where I'm coming from.

201
00:08:51,765 --> 00:08:56,603
I grew up, I went to highschool in an all-white environment.

202
00:08:56,603 --> 00:08:59,005
I was the only person of colour in my highschool.

203
00:08:59,005 --> 00:09:03,243
I resented being Asian because I wasn't white.

204
00:09:03,243 --> 00:09:06,413
This kind of racism is in place so that people don't even think about it,

205
00:09:06,413 --> 00:09:07,714
it just happens.

206
00:09:07,714 --> 00:09:09,516
I just feel left out.

207
00:09:09,516 --> 00:09:12,853
When I stand in line in a counter to be served, to buy something,

208
00:09:12,853 --> 00:09:16,657
and the white person who comes after me gets served first,

209
00:09:17,149 --> 00:09:19,893
it's not done on purpose,

210
00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:22,395
it's because the person doesn't see me.

211
00:09:22,395 --> 00:09:24,731
I'm invisible to that white person,

212
00:09:24,731 --> 00:09:26,666
to the clerk.

213
00:09:27,312 --> 00:09:29,502
You see?

214
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,627
I'm invisible.

215
00:09:32,627 --> 00:09:34,174
That happens to me.

216
00:09:34,174 --> 00:09:36,109
I was talking to some friends in a restaurant,

217
00:09:36,109 --> 00:09:37,503
got the same thing as you, David,

218
00:09:37,503 --> 00:09:41,548
but they started asking me the order, get their food, to get their food, y'know?

219
00:09:41,548 --> 00:09:44,785
Started ordering and looking up at me.

220
00:09:44,785 --> 00:09:49,022
It's this insidious thing that you deal with daily.

221
00:09:49,022 --> 00:09:51,124
Every day I go to a professional workshop

222
00:09:51,124 --> 00:09:54,794
"oh! Don't I know you? I met you at the last one!"

223
00:09:54,794 --> 00:09:56,162
[laughing]

224
00:09:56,162 --> 00:09:56,962
You know?

225
00:09:56,962 --> 00:09:59,566
Every fuckin' time.

226
00:09:59,566 --> 00:10:02,001
If not once, several times.

227
00:10:02,001 --> 00:10:06,640
Every time, no one recognizes, y'know, we all look alike, right?

228
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,850
And this is a continual thing.

229
00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:10,777
Continual.

230
00:10:10,777 --> 00:10:14,948
Even, y'know, I... took your comment out of naïveté earlier

231
00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:20,420
when you said "well, you don't look Japanese, I'm not sure what you look like, y'know?"

232
00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:31,431
And uh, but, this happens, it's just... in the air that you breathe.

233
00:10:31,431 --> 00:10:35,558
And all these things are... seem like doors to shut you out from something.

234
00:10:40,151 --> 00:10:43,777
What I see from, uh, white people generally,

235
00:10:43,777 --> 00:10:46,580
is that they don't talk about themselves as white people.

236
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:48,975
They talk about themselves as human beings,

237
00:10:48,975 --> 00:10:51,807
as if it means the same thing.

238
00:10:51,807 --> 00:10:56,222
Now, what I wanna know is what it means to be white.

239
00:10:56,222 --> 00:10:58,458
Not what it means to be a human being,

240
00:10:58,458 --> 00:11:01,188
because we already know that you're a human being,

241
00:11:01,188 --> 00:11:05,098
and we can already relate to the universal human experience.

242
00:11:05,098 --> 00:11:06,866
What is the white experience?

243
00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:11,772
When I, uh, uh, look at you manifesting your white experience,

244
00:11:11,772 --> 00:11:17,077
I also see you not naming it.

245
00:11:17,077 --> 00:11:18,679
I see you want it to blur the distinctions,

246
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:19,980
between just being a person

247
00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:23,316
and also, most particularly, being a white person,

248
00:11:23,316 --> 00:11:25,285
and what that means.

249
00:11:25,285 --> 00:11:27,620
And I think that part of what it means to be white

250
00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:30,123
is never, it means never having to say you're sorry,

251
00:11:30,123 --> 00:11:34,561
but it also means never having to admit

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that to be white means something different than to be a person of colour,

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and that there is an experience that you have

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that is very different from what the experience of people of colour is.

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I'm sure that there were many times that I felt that, uh, people of colour were being mistreated,

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probably when I was in my late teens going down to, uh, basically black areas

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and seeing the cops around a lot.

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We'd go down there and dance,

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uh, and see the police around.

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But I don't think there was a lot of awareness,

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it was more just... a numbess...

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I... it doesn't happen to me,

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it doesn't happen in my area,

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uh, and so... that's somebody else's problem.

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I never consider myself as you do,

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a part of an ethnic group.

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I think that's what you're looking for,

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and you're not going to find that among us,

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because we don't look at ourselves as an ethnic group.

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[Victor] Do you know that that means something?

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[David C] I don't know what it means, I mean...

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[Victor] I'm telling you that that means something...

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[David C] I'm trying to answer your question Victor,

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and as you were asking that question, I'm saying, well gosh,

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I never considered myself part of a white group.

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I just wonder,

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doesn't it seem kina deep to you

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that you don't have an answer to that question?

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That you have no, do you have any notion that

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the fact that you have no answer to that could actually

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be a source of meaning, experience, or knowledge?

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The opposite is how I feel about you, Victor.

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That you have no comprehension that the world is open to you.

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You think that the white man is a block and a dam to your progress,

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and he is not.

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I think <i>you</i> put up that dam and that block yourself,

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in <i>your</i> regard to the white man.

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[Loren] See I think that's one of the major problems with racism.

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I think he did answer the question.

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As a white man, he doesn't have to think about his position in life,

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his place in the world.

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The history books tell him, as they are written,

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that this world <i>is</i> his.

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He doesn't have to think about um you know

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where he goes, what he does.

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He doesn't have to think like a white person.

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The way the world has been set up,

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America in particular,

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white is, is human.

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[Roberto] ... that white is a human being.

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[Loren] Right. That's what a human being is.

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So he doesn't have to worry

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about what, how do I think like a white person.

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That does, I...

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I don't know, but I would assume that doesn't enter a white person's mind,

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because they don't, they don't have to deal with that from day one.

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They step into a world that is theirs.

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[Hugh] It's a good question...

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[some talking over one another]

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[Victor] I need to respond to your saying that... that I create uh my own racial predicament

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by my thinking and my attitudes?

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[David C] You block your progress...

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[Victor] I block my own progress?

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[David C] By allowing your attitude toward the white man to limit you.

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[Victor] I think the police limit me.

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I think that white supremacy has placed limitations on where I can go and what I can do.

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But I don't think that, that I cause my own predicament under uh white supremacy...

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and by white supremacy I don't mean uh Neo Nazis, and I don't mean Klan,

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because I'm not...

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I'm terrified of those people...