0:00:00.163,0:00:05.239
... outside of what, uh, seems really comfortable and familiar to you,

0:00:05.239,0:00:08.742
and launch out into some real, for you, unknown territory.

0:00:08.742,0:00:10.043
And you haven't gone out there,

0:00:10.043,0:00:14.314
like you haven't, you know, gotten in proximity to black people as you say,

0:00:14.314,0:00:16.517
because you don't have to.

0:00:16.517,0:00:19.687
And that's part of what it means to be American to me,

0:00:19.687,0:00:23.357
is to have all these things that you can do if you want to,

0:00:23.357,0:00:26.761
that you don't have to do if you don't want... don't wanna do,

0:00:26.761,0:00:32.232
and there's a way in which American, and white, and human, become synonyms.

0:00:32.232,0:00:35.202
That "why can't we just treat each other as human beings?",

0:00:35.202,0:00:36.897
to me, when I hear it from a white person,

0:00:36.897,0:00:39.139
means "why can't we all just pretend to be white people.?

0:00:39.139,0:00:43.243
I'll pretend you're a white person, [laughing] and then you can pretend to be white"

0:00:43.243,0:00:44.745
"why don't you eat what i eat?"

0:00:44.745,0:00:45.979
"why don't you drink what I drink?"

0:00:45.979,0:00:47.515
"why don't you think like I think?"

0:00:47.515,0:00:49.750
"why don't you FEEL LIKE I FEEL?"

0:00:49.750,0:00:54.033
"GOD DAMMIT I'M SO SICK AND GODDAMNED TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THAT."

0:00:54.033,0:00:55.389
"I'M SICK OF THAT".

0:00:55.389,0:00:57.691
That's what it means to be human beings to me,

0:00:57.691,0:00:59.327
that's what it means to be white,

0:00:59.327,0:01:00.694
that's what it means to be American,

0:01:00.694,0:01:02.396
why don't you come the hell over here,

0:01:02.396,0:01:04.668
that's what I hear every goddamned day,

0:01:04.668,0:01:06.199
and you know that I can't come over there,

0:01:06.199,0:01:07.534
you know that this skin,

0:01:07.534,0:01:08.535
and that this hair,

0:01:08.535,0:01:09.970
and that this way that I talk

0:01:09.970,0:01:10.871
and I think

0:01:10.871,0:01:11.538
and I feel

0:01:11.538,0:01:12.306
will never

0:01:12.306,0:01:13.373
ever

0:01:13.373,0:01:14.241
get included

0:01:14.241,0:01:16.677
because I'm unpalatable to this goddamn nation.

0:01:16.677,0:01:17.711
I'm unpalatable.

0:01:17.711,0:01:18.746
You cannot swallow me.

0:01:18.746,0:01:19.847
You cannot taste me.

0:01:19.847,0:01:22.049
You cannot tell me because you don't want to.

0:01:22.049,0:01:23.940
You think that you can survive without me,

0:01:23.940,0:01:24.785
but you can't, man.

0:01:24.785,0:01:27.121
You think, and you think that,

0:01:27.121,0:01:31.926
hey it'll all be fine when we just treat each other like human beings.

0:01:31.926,0:01:35.529
And what that says to me is: don't be yourself, be like me.

0:01:35.529,0:01:36.830
Keep me comfortable,

0:01:36.830,0:01:38.899
connect when I'm ready to connect,

0:01:38.899,0:01:41.268
come out to my place,

0:01:41.268,0:01:45.405
or maybe I'll come down and get some artifacts from your place.

0:01:45.405,0:01:46.840
Uh uh.

0:01:46.840,0:01:50.878
That is bullshit.

0:01:50.878,0:01:53.852
[breathing heavily]

0:02:03.414,0:02:05.626
When you say that your ethicity is American,

0:02:05.626,0:02:10.831
there is no American ethnicity.

0:02:10.831,0:02:14.301
You had to throw away your ethnicity to become American.

0:02:14.301,0:02:18.405
That's what it means.

0:02:18.405,0:02:19.573
That's what it means.

0:02:19.573,0:02:22.610
You give up who you are to become American.

0:02:22.610,0:02:25.012
And you can pretend that it's ok because you're white.

0:02:25.012,0:02:27.348
When we give up who we are to become American,

0:02:27.348,0:02:29.885
we know that we're dying from it.

0:02:29.885,0:02:33.454
You're dying from it too, but you don't know it necessarily.

0:02:33.454,0:02:35.777
Get ethnic, y'know?

0:02:40.752,0:02:44.464
Y'know, I'm not gonna trust you until you're as willing to be changed

0:02:44.464,0:02:46.933
and affected by my experience,

0:02:46.933,0:02:48.702
and transformed by my experience,

0:02:48.702,0:02:51.010
as I am every day by yours.

0:02:51.272,0:02:55.609
I attended a school for the first time that was predominantly white,

0:02:55.609,0:02:57.711
and I had white teachers,

0:02:57.711,0:02:59.792
and I walked into the classroom,

0:02:59.792,0:03:03.117
and there were 3 reading groups in my 5th grade classroom,

0:03:03.117,0:03:06.453
and I was promptly put into the lowest reading group.

0:03:06.453,0:03:07.854
And I gathered very quickly

0:03:07.854,0:03:12.359
that that was because I'm of African and American descent.

0:03:12.359,0:03:14.467
Then they put me in the internediate reading group,

0:03:14.467,0:03:16.663
and then they put me into the highest reading group,

0:03:16.663,0:03:19.700
and y'know, I just boiled and churned through the whole process

0:03:19.700,0:03:23.820
because my reading level was higher than anything they had in the classroom.

0:03:24.870,0:03:26.373
I'm always dealing with you.

0:03:26.373,0:03:27.708
I'm always dealing with you.

0:03:27.708,0:03:28.909
You don't deal with him,

0:03:28.909,0:03:30.277
you don't deal with me,

0:03:30.277,0:03:32.947
maybe you had an opportunity to deal with some Latino people,

0:03:32.947,0:03:35.516
but we always deal with you, baby.

0:03:35.516,0:03:37.184
Always.

0:03:37.184,0:03:38.618
Every day.

0:03:38.618,0:03:39.686
In the ride up here,

0:03:39.686,0:03:42.923
it's like oh man where are we now?

0:03:42.923,0:03:47.094
Oh god! I hate being out of the city.

0:03:47.094,0:03:51.231
Because I know who's out here... you all.

0:03:51.231,0:03:52.632
Or at least I know who's in charge,

0:03:52.632,0:03:55.002
even if there's other people out here,

0:03:55.002,0:03:57.771
I know who's in charge,

0:03:57.771,0:04:02.309
and I don't know anywhere where I can find some safety that I can rely upon.

0:04:02.309,0:04:04.511
When I'm out here.

0:04:04.511,0:04:07.548
You know, I'm real glad I got to the house before sundown.

0:04:07.548,0:04:11.051
[Loren] yeah, it's like shark-infested waters.

0:04:11.051,0:04:11.918
[David C] Really?

0:04:11.918,0:04:13.286
[Loren] Yes, definitely.

0:04:13.286,0:04:14.932
It doesn't have to be said.

0:04:14.932,0:04:15.722
It can be felt,

0:04:15.722,0:04:17.402
it's... intuitive.

0:04:19.063,0:04:23.597
It's... hard to explain to someone who doesn't have to go through it,

0:04:23.597,0:04:27.468
but, you know, I've traveled down south,

0:04:27.468,0:04:30.704
and y'know... just that feeling...

0:04:30.704,0:04:33.240
like you said, you get... you know...

0:04:33.240,0:04:35.009
drive through Kentucky and Tennessee

0:04:35.009,0:04:37.578
and see the Appalachian mountains up ahead of you,

0:04:37.578,0:04:42.582
and know you want to get through those mountains so fast without stopping for anything,

0:04:42.582,0:04:45.087
because you don't know if you'll get out.

0:04:45.318,0:04:47.087
Driving through Ukiah,

0:04:47.087,0:04:51.591
a big pickup was behind me with a gun rack on the back, you know?

0:04:51.591,0:04:52.959
I was nervous.

0:04:52.959,0:04:57.431
And there was... and I've never been hurt by somebody on the freeway with a gun rack,

0:04:57.431,0:05:00.934
you know, that's never happened to me, but the fear is still there.

0:05:00.934,0:05:02.536
The fear is still there,

0:05:02.536,0:05:05.005
because I know it can happen.

0:05:05.005,0:05:06.240
I know it can happen

0:05:06.240,0:05:07.548
because it has happened.

0:05:07.548,0:05:11.044
Not to me, but to people who look just like me.

0:05:11.044,0:05:14.194
Or who don't look just like me.

0:05:14.748,0:05:16.697
I've got the fear.

0:05:16.697,0:05:18.051
I don't want to stop.

0:05:18.051,0:05:21.655
I don't want to be out on a road around here.

0:05:21.655,0:05:25.158
I tell ya, it's scary, with the gun racks.

0:05:25.158,0:05:26.293
I've done workshops...

0:05:26.293,0:05:27.561
[David C] Do you kow what the gun racks are all about?

0:05:27.561,0:05:28.462
[Gordon] Can I...

0:05:28.462,0:05:30.304
[David C] Sure Gordon.

0:05:30.304,0:05:31.665
[Gordon] Because this is my experience.

0:05:31.665,0:05:33.369
I don't feel safe with those people.

0:05:33.369,0:05:35.135
And that's a stereotype about me,

0:05:35.135,0:05:38.505
and people who have gun racks and pickup trucks,

0:05:38.505,0:05:41.308
but I've had, I used to do a workshop in this area,

0:05:41.308,0:05:44.411
a little further east from here called the Mill Experience,

0:05:44.411,0:05:49.549
and I had 7 shotgun holes through the sign that I had out on the road,

0:05:49.549,0:05:51.384
and picked up the shells and still got em.

0:05:51.384,0:05:57.725
I can't feel what I know Victor feels up here,

0:05:57.725,0:06:00.728
but I got a piece of it.

0:06:00.728,0:06:02.429
It's just scary.

0:06:02.429,0:06:04.361
And I don;t know how to deal with it.

0:06:05.032,0:06:08.802
When my father hit Texas, he never stopped,

0:06:08.802,0:06:11.672
he went straight through Texas.

0:06:11.672,0:06:12.739
We didn't stop,

0:06:12.739,0:06:15.041
well we must have stopped for food, I can't believe that,

0:06:15.041,0:06:16.509
but I don't remember stopping.

0:06:16.509,0:06:18.712
I know we didn't stop to sleep.

0:06:18.712,0:06:22.847
I mean, it's like he wanted to get out of that state as fast as he could.

0:06:23.416,0:06:28.222
I had no comprehension... and especially from you,

0:06:28.222,0:06:29.356
you Latinos,

0:06:29.356,0:06:33.834
that you are frightened to come up highway 101.

0:06:33.834,0:06:37.564
That is, uh, in my opinion, unfounded.

0:06:37.564,0:06:40.793
An unfounded fear and apprehension on your parts.

0:06:41.101,0:06:42.269
Unfounded??

0:06:42.269,0:06:43.436
There's that word again...

0:06:43.436,0:06:45.238
This valley is not hostile to Latinos.

0:06:45.238,0:06:49.175
[Loren Moye] How can you say that? You're not Latino?

0:06:49.576,0:06:51.878
No, it's not hostile to Latinos.

0:06:51.878,0:06:53.179
[David L] Can I just...

0:06:53.179,0:07:00.254
[David C] And Victor and Loren here are expressing feelings that

0:07:00.254,0:07:06.226
I... I'm afraid that these feelings, there will be no progress, and no change in racism.

0:07:06.226,0:07:09.263
The fear of colour will remain

0:07:09.263,0:07:11.643
the gap isn't being bridged here.

0:07:12.628,0:07:15.001
[Loren] I thought Victor explained that very clearly,

0:07:15.001,0:07:18.171
that we ... we've changed, as far as we're gonna change...

0:07:18.509,0:07:20.640
Yeah, and you're expecting a change from the white person...

0:07:20.640,0:07:21.908
[Loren] Exactly.

0:07:21.908,0:07:28.248
And I'm saying to you, you're the same as I am, and you don't believe that.

0:07:28.248,0:07:32.352
And I think that that really may be more predominant than you think.

0:07:32.352,0:07:34.716
But what about guys like Colin Powell?

0:07:34.716,0:07:37.724
[others laughing]

0:07:37.724,0:07:39.626
You know... why do you laugh about that?

0:07:39.626,0:07:42.379
[Loren] I'm not laughing. I think it's a serious issue.

0:07:42.379,0:07:44.398
He did make it, but what did he make?

0:07:44.398,0:07:48.201
There are many professors in the California college system that are coloured,

0:07:48.201,0:07:50.003
and they're respected and...

0:07:50.003,0:07:51.671
[Victor] "Coloured".

0:07:51.671,0:07:54.841
Well... what... African American, Chinese, and Latino, what do you want me to do?

0:07:54.841,0:07:56.443
Let's lump it all together in one term, coloured.

0:07:56.443,0:07:57.077
I'm coloured,

0:07:57.077,0:07:57.610
I'm white.

0:07:57.610,0:07:59.079
You called me white, and I'm a colour.

0:07:59.079,0:08:01.815
[Loren] Let's go back to Colin Powell, Colin Powell's responsible for killing...

0:08:01.815,0:08:03.717
This is emotional, and this is totally normal,

0:08:03.717,0:08:07.054
and, to be so emotional about this topic.

0:08:07.054,0:08:09.156
And I think I feel a lot of frustration here David,

0:08:09.156,0:08:16.430
and I think, um, you have to listen to our experiences because they're valid.

0:08:16.430,0:08:19.399
I believe that, they are valid for you...

0:08:19.399,0:08:21.735
Well I don't think you do, because, let me tell you why I don't think you do.

0:08:21.735,0:08:24.904
It souds like, you're bouncing it back to them and saying

0:08:24.904,0:08:29.743
"it's your problem, why do you guys act like this? You guys can drive down the street , down highway 101..."

0:08:29.743,0:08:32.179
[David C] And I can go into Chinatown...

0:08:32.179,0:08:33.247
[David L] No. Listen to me...

0:08:33.247,0:08:34.448
[David C] ...and be frightened to death...

0:08:34.448,0:08:37.317
[David L] Well, listen to me, part of, I mean, when I drove...

0:08:37.317,0:08:40.087
[David C] And I do get frightened...

0:08:40.087,0:08:42.689
[David L] You gotta listen to me.

0:08:42.689,0:08:44.057
[Yutaka] Breathe.

0:08:44.057,0:08:45.759
[David C taking a deep breath]

0:08:45.759,0:08:48.361
[David L] When I drive down highway 101, you know, I didn't feel quite comfortable either.

0:08:48.361,0:08:49.162
[David C] Really?

0:08:49.162,0:08:51.765
[David L] No, but let me tell you my experience, where I'm coming from.

0:08:51.765,0:08:56.603
I grew up, I went to highschool in an all-white environment.

0:08:56.603,0:08:59.005
I was the only person of colour in my highschool.

0:08:59.005,0:09:03.243
I resented being Asian because I wasn't white.

0:09:03.243,0:09:06.413
This kind of racism is in place so that people don't even think about it,

0:09:06.413,0:09:07.714
it just happens.

0:09:07.714,0:09:09.516
I just feel left out.

0:09:09.516,0:09:12.853
When I stand in line in a counter to be served, to buy something,

0:09:12.853,0:09:16.657
and the white person who comes after me gets served first,

0:09:17.149,0:09:19.893
it's not done on purpose,

0:09:19.893,0:09:22.395
it's because the person doesn't see me.

0:09:22.395,0:09:24.731
I'm invisible to that white person,

0:09:24.731,0:09:26.666
to the clerk.

0:09:27.312,0:09:29.502
You see?

0:09:31.040,0:09:32.627
I'm invisible.

0:09:32.627,0:09:34.174
That happens to me.

0:09:34.174,0:09:36.109
I was talking to some friends in a restaurant,

0:09:36.109,0:09:37.503
got the same thing as you, David,

0:09:37.503,0:09:41.548
but they started asking me the order, get their food, to get their food, y'know?

0:09:41.548,0:09:44.785
Started ordering and looking up at me.

0:09:44.785,0:09:49.022
It's this insidious thing that you deal with daily.

0:09:49.022,0:09:51.124
Every day I go to a professional workshop

0:09:51.124,0:09:54.794
"oh! Don't I know you? I met you at the last one!"

0:09:54.794,0:09:56.162
[laughing]

0:09:56.162,0:09:56.962
You know?

0:09:56.962,0:09:59.566
Every fuckin' time.

0:09:59.566,0:10:02.001
If not once, several times.

0:10:02.001,0:10:06.640
Every time, no one recognizes, y'know, we all look alike, right?

0:10:06.640,0:10:08.850
And this is a continual thing.

0:10:08.850,0:10:10.777
Continual.

0:10:10.777,0:10:14.948
Even, y'know, I... took your comment out of naïveté earlier

0:10:14.948,0:10:20.420
when you said "well, you don't look Japanese, I'm not sure what you look like, y'know?"

0:10:20.420,0:10:31.431
And uh, but, this happens, it's just... in the air that you breathe.

0:10:31.431,0:10:35.558
And all these things are... seem like doors to shut you out from something.

0:10:40.151,0:10:43.777
What I see from, uh, white people generally,

0:10:43.777,0:10:46.580
is that they don't talk about themselves as white people.

0:10:46.580,0:10:48.975
They talk about themselves as human beings,

0:10:48.975,0:10:51.807
as if it means the same thing.

0:10:51.807,0:10:56.222
Now, what I wanna know is what it means to be white.

0:10:56.222,0:10:58.458
Not what it means to be a human being,

0:10:58.458,0:11:01.188
because we already know that you're a human being,

0:11:01.188,0:11:05.098
and we can already relate to the universal human experience.

0:11:05.098,0:11:06.866
What is the white experience?

0:11:06.866,0:11:11.772
When I, uh, uh, look at you manifesting your white experience,

0:11:11.772,0:11:17.077
I also see you not naming it.

0:11:17.077,0:11:18.679
I see you want it to blur the distinctions,

0:11:18.679,0:11:19.980
between just being a person

0:11:19.980,0:11:23.316
and also, most particularly, being a white person,

0:11:23.316,0:11:25.285
and what that means.

0:11:25.285,0:11:27.620
And I think that part of what it means to be white

0:11:27.620,0:11:30.123
is never, it means never having to say you're sorry,

0:11:30.123,0:11:34.561
but it also means never having to admit

0:11:34.561,0:11:39.199
that to be white means something different than to be a person of colour,

0:11:39.199,0:11:41.201
and that there is an experience that you have

0:11:41.201,0:11:44.115
that is very different from what the experience of people of colour is.

0:11:45.305,0:11:50.744
I'm sure that there were many times that I felt that, uh, people of colour were being mistreated,

0:11:50.744,0:11:57.550
probably when I was in my late teens going down to, uh, basically black areas

0:11:57.550,0:11:59.619
and seeing the cops around a lot.

0:11:59.619,0:12:01.287
We'd go down there and dance,

0:12:01.287,0:12:03.623
uh, and see the police around.

0:12:03.623,0:12:05.925
But I don't think there was a lot of awareness,

0:12:05.925,0:12:09.362
it was more just... a numbess...

0:12:09.362,0:12:12.132
I... it doesn't happen to me,

0:12:12.132,0:12:14.735
it doesn't happen in my area,

0:12:14.735,0:12:17.258
uh, and so... that's somebody else's problem.

0:12:18.839,0:12:21.575
I never consider myself as you do,

0:12:22.160,0:12:25.047
a part of an ethnic group.

0:12:26.220,0:12:28.514
I think that's what you're looking for,

0:12:28.514,0:12:29.916
and you're not going to find that among us,

0:12:29.916,0:12:31.839
because we don't look at ourselves as an ethnic group.

0:12:32.443,0:12:34.354
[Victor] Do you know that that means something?

0:12:34.492,0:12:35.972
[David C] I don't know what it means, I mean...

0:12:36.064,0:12:38.191
[Victor] I'm telling you that that means something...

0:12:38.345,0:12:40.226
[David C] I'm trying to answer your question Victor,

0:12:40.226,0:12:42.395
and as you were asking that question, I'm saying, well gosh,

0:12:42.395,0:12:46.862
I never considered myself part of a white group.

0:12:48.186,0:12:49.202
I just wonder,

0:12:49.202,0:12:51.304
doesn't it seem kina deep to you

0:12:51.304,0:12:53.294
that you don't have an answer to that question?

0:12:53.294,0:12:56.220
That you have no, do you have any notion that

0:12:56.220,0:12:58.611
the fact that you have no answer to that could actually

0:12:58.611,0:13:02.282
be a source of meaning, experience, or knowledge?

0:13:02.451,0:13:05.518
The opposite is how I feel about you, Victor.

0:13:05.518,0:13:09.355
That you have no comprehension that the world is open to you.

0:13:09.355,0:13:12.759
You think that the white man is a block and a dam to your progress,

0:13:12.759,0:13:15.400
and he is not.

0:13:15.400,0:13:18.198
I think <i>you</i> put up that dam and that block yourself,

0:13:18.198,0:13:20.233
in <i>your</i> regard to the white man.

0:13:20.602,0:13:24.270
[Loren] See I think that's one of the major problems with racism.

0:13:24.270,0:13:26.573
I think he did answer the question.

0:13:26.573,0:13:30.076
As a white man, he doesn't have to think about his position in life,

0:13:30.076,0:13:31.911
his place in the world.

0:13:31.911,0:13:34.847
The history books tell him, as they are written,

0:13:34.847,0:13:36.883
that this world <i>is</i> his.

0:13:36.883,0:13:40.520
He doesn't have to think about um you know

0:13:40.520,0:13:42.422
where he goes, what he does.

0:13:42.422,0:13:45.260
He doesn't have to think like a white person.

0:13:45.260,0:13:46.860
The way the world has been set up,

0:13:46.860,0:13:48.228
America in particular,

0:13:48.228,0:13:50.530
white is, is human.

0:13:50.530,0:13:52.098
[Roberto] ... that white is a human being.

0:13:52.098,0:13:55.268
[Loren] Right. That's what a human being is.

0:13:55.268,0:13:57.537
So he doesn't have to worry

0:13:57.537,0:14:00.673
about what, how do I think like a white person.

0:14:00.673,0:14:02.542
That does, I...

0:14:02.542,0:14:05.545
I don't know, but I would assume that doesn't enter a white person's mind,

0:14:05.545,0:14:09.363
because they don't, they don't have to deal with that from day one.

0:14:09.363,0:14:11.884
They step into a world that is theirs.

0:14:11.884,0:14:14.287
[Hugh] It's a good question...

0:14:14.287,0:14:16.590
[some talking over one another]

0:14:16.590,0:14:22.923
[Victor] I need to respond to your saying that... that I create uh my own racial predicament

0:14:22.923,0:14:24.497
by my thinking and my attitudes?

0:14:24.497,0:14:26.333
[David C] You block your progress...

0:14:26.333,0:14:28.001
[Victor] I block my own progress?

0:14:28.001,0:14:31.771
[David C] By allowing your attitude toward the white man to limit you.

0:14:31.771,0:14:35.274
[Victor] I think the police limit me.

0:14:35.274,0:14:43.316
I think that white supremacy has placed limitations on where I can go and what I can do.

0:14:43.316,0:14:52.425
But I don't think that, that I cause my own predicament under uh white supremacy...

0:14:52.425,0:14:56.830
and by white supremacy I don't mean uh Neo Nazis, and I don't mean Klan,

0:14:56.830,0:14:58.565
because I'm not...

0:14:58.565,9:59:59.000
I'm terrified of those people...