1 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:48,544 - I would like to have a say. 2 00:00:48,544 --> 00:00:50,947 My opinion is close to the one of Alexandre. 3 00:00:50,947 --> 00:00:54,154 It's true that a few of us are starting to look into 4 00:00:54,154 --> 00:00:58,714 democracy and what you've been saying. It's also true that most people, 5 00:00:58,714 --> 00:01:01,154 90%, don't care at all about it. 6 00:01:01,154 --> 00:01:05,234 Would a solution be that all become citizens or 7 00:01:05,234 --> 00:01:10,554 that we make a distinction between citizens and civilians? 8 00:01:10,554 --> 00:01:16,834 To be a citizen, that implies duties against which 9 00:01:16,834 --> 00:01:22,034 we receive rights. At the same time, being a citizen as you have exposed 10 00:01:22,034 --> 00:01:26,874 requires to be volunteer, so you have to take the first step. 11 00:01:26,874 --> 00:01:29,914 I think that we should have a distinction between citizens and civilians, 12 00:01:29,914 --> 00:01:32,634 but with a fundemental principle: 13 00:01:32,634 --> 00:01:36,714 all civilian who wishes to do so can become a citizen. 14 00:01:36,714 --> 00:01:41,354 This principle could never be revoked by anyone, 15 00:01:41,354 --> 00:01:45,554 law or religion, it's a fundemental principle. 16 00:01:45,554 --> 00:01:49,874 And there you could have 10% of citizens and 90% of civilians or 17 00:01:49,874 --> 00:01:54,554 90% of citizens and 10% of civilians. In my opinion, we need this distinction. 18 00:01:54,554 --> 00:01:56,249 - That's actually very attractive. 19 00:01:56,249 --> 00:01:59,747 - I would even go as far as to say that this distinction is useful because civilians, 20 00:01:59,747 --> 00:02:02,707 other people, consumers, to become citizens. 21 00:02:02,707 --> 00:02:06,347 If we make a distinction, desire will rise from it. 22 00:02:06,347 --> 00:02:09,387 - Absolutely. I completly agree. I actually find it... 23 00:02:09,387 --> 00:02:12,421 ...sorry, I keep on using the word, but I find it very... 24 00:02:12,421 --> 00:02:15,765 - ...sexy! 25 00:02:15,765 --> 00:02:18,791 - Absolutly. And still, it's not politically correct. 26 00:02:18,791 --> 00:02:21,831 It looks really a lot like active/passive citizens. 27 00:02:21,831 --> 00:02:25,351 It looks like censitary suffrage. I'm sure that it's not what you have imagined, 28 00:02:25,351 --> 00:02:27,431 that is that the criteria isn't money. 29 00:02:27,431 --> 00:02:31,511 - No, but you would have a Rule of Law, civilians would submit 30 00:02:31,511 --> 00:02:36,056 to the same rules as citizens. [...] 31 00:02:36,056 --> 00:02:38,357 - You should actually take a microphone so that you can be recorded 32 00:02:38,357 --> 00:02:39,597 because it's very interesting. 33 00:02:39,597 --> 00:02:41,797 - Since civilians don't have weapons 34 00:02:41,797 --> 00:02:45,237 and also bare no responsibility, they would not have the right to decide, 35 00:02:45,237 --> 00:02:46,917 by that I mean they will not obtain power. 36 00:02:46,917 --> 00:02:48,065 That's the only distinction. 37 00:02:48,065 --> 00:02:51,778 - No weapons, obligation to obey, protective rights to be sure 38 00:02:51,778 --> 00:02:53,591 that the majority won't squash them... -Yes, of course. 39 00:02:53,591 --> 00:02:56,811 - ...and the possibility - and that's real important - to step into the side 40 00:02:56,811 --> 00:03:01,982 of citizens, to the only condition of being ready for it. 41 00:03:01,982 --> 00:03:05,792 Maybe to have learned for it, a permit? So you have learned a minimum about the institutions 42 00:03:05,792 --> 00:03:10,204 and democratic values. Then you'd be capable. 43 00:03:10,204 --> 00:03:14,765 If it is really open entry and that there isn't 44 00:03:14,765 --> 00:03:17,566 a huge "entry process" that would be insurmountable. If someone who tries sincerly, 45 00:03:17,566 --> 00:03:21,267 or even modestly, manages to become a citizen, then I find it attractive. 46 00:03:21,267 --> 00:03:25,600 It let's people who don't want to stay at peace. It would be a regime where we have... 47 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,446 Tonight, we're moving forward. This is something important. 48 00:03:30,446 --> 00:03:35,020 This would let us have a system where the 90% who don't care 49 00:03:35,020 --> 00:03:39,980 would have a protected spot against injustice. 50 00:03:39,980 --> 00:03:42,100 Those people are in fact people who don't want to have a chief. 51 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:45,500 Excuse me, it's citizens who don't want to have a leader. 52 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:47,620 Civilians (in your words) are people who want a good leader. 53 00:03:47,620 --> 00:03:51,180 They want a good master. They don't want to be free. 54 00:03:51,180 --> 00:03:55,860 There are many people like that. And with those, how do you build a society ? 55 00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:58,820 Probably with two parallel speeds. But one gear can switch to the next one easily. 56 00:03:58,820 --> 00:04:01,820 That doesn't seem shocking to me, nor unfair. 57 00:04:01,820 --> 00:04:05,140 When you feel like you want to take part in politics, you switch sides 58 00:04:05,140 --> 00:04:08,860 and become a citizen with rights and duties. 59 00:04:08,860 --> 00:04:13,958 - I'll just tag along that idea 60 00:04:13,958 --> 00:04:16,815 - Some amongst you never speak up so maybe we can... 61 00:04:16,815 --> 00:04:19,958 Actually, maybe I should stop talking. 62 00:04:19,958 --> 00:04:28,560 - 90% or 20% or even 50%, will the people in power, the 1%, let us get that far? 63 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,758 - Ah very good point and it's sure they'll try everything to stop us. 64 00:04:31,758 --> 00:04:33,198 That is a real objection. 65 00:04:33,198 --> 00:04:34,278 - Our actual system, in short. 66 00:04:34,278 --> 00:04:36,758 - Yes and it's an objection, but maybe we should keep it for last. 67 00:04:36,758 --> 00:04:41,518 My way of bringing forward a solution, 68 00:04:41,518 --> 00:04:45,998 or what seems to me as a possibility, is the viral way. I'll just point it out shortly 69 00:04:45,998 --> 00:04:49,706 so you see where I am getting at. 70 00:04:49,706 --> 00:04:52,118 I don't beleive that we'll rise up today. 71 00:04:52,118 --> 00:04:55,170 Today, we'll just loose. We aren't enough to fight it, they are just too strong 72 00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:57,878 and with that in balance, we wouldn't win. What I am saying is 73 00:04:57,878 --> 00:05:03,085 that if we manage to have a simple idea, a powerful idea, and that it takes all 74 00:05:03,085 --> 00:05:06,522 the injustices at their root. All or almost all, Alain. 75 00:05:06,522 --> 00:05:10,283 You'll still have some, I know. But still, imagine that we solve many 76 00:05:10,283 --> 00:05:14,649 by making ourselves powerful enough to resist to injustice. 77 00:05:14,649 --> 00:05:18,552 Imagine that we manage to pass on the message amongst our mists. 78 00:05:18,552 --> 00:05:22,328 Each time that we gather, we are fourty, fifty, sixty, a hundred. 79 00:05:22,328 --> 00:05:25,989 Even if we are twenty! Imagine even if we are ten! 80 00:05:25,989 --> 00:05:29,909 Imagine that you alone manage a factor 10 each time that you are busy 81 00:05:29,909 --> 00:05:34,429 spreading the word to other "white blood cells". You convince them, 82 00:05:34,429 --> 00:05:36,989 and not in one go, you'll have to come at it again, see them twice or thrice. 83 00:05:36,989 --> 00:05:40,971 You work on it because there is a desintoxication period. 84 00:05:40,971 --> 00:05:45,423 We've been trained a lifetime to beleive the opposite of democracy. 85 00:05:45,423 --> 00:05:50,303 And what we are discovering on our own, you won't convince people in one night. 86 00:05:50,303 --> 00:05:55,343 You'll have to discuss, come back, find elements so that the debate picks up flavour, 87 00:05:55,343 --> 00:05:59,451 that people want it. People from whom we received critisim, 88 00:05:59,451 --> 00:06:04,652 they must want to come back for more. Find the way to touch them. Let's imagine you have a factor ten. 89 00:06:04,652 --> 00:06:09,303 It will become exponential. And an exponential grows very fast. 90 00:06:09,303 --> 00:06:15,435 A viral idea is made possible with the help of Internet 91 00:06:15,435 --> 00:06:22,240 - and that's as long as we still have it so we must hurry - it could work. 92 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,682 If we are thousands to want this - which isn't the case now - 93 00:06:26,682 --> 00:06:31,605 but if we are thousands to want this, we'll have it without bloodshed. 94 00:06:31,605 --> 00:06:34,762 The people who took power after the Revolution, they manage when we're tens of thousands... 95 00:06:34,762 --> 00:06:36,917 It's insane: that's a lot of people, tens of thousands. 96 00:06:36,917 --> 00:06:39,794 You should see pictures of the Commune of Paris. 97 00:06:39,794 --> 00:06:42,473 The people of Paris must have thought: "We're invulnerable". 98 00:06:42,473 --> 00:06:47,875 The streets were full of people fraternizing. They feared no one anymore. 99 00:06:47,875 --> 00:06:51,543 - They were more than 500 000 in Greece (nowadays), and that didn't change anything. 100 00:06:51,543 --> 00:06:53,633 - And it didn't change much. So I'm talking about millions. 101 00:06:53,633 --> 00:06:56,993 We need to be many. And that's not all. They were 500 000 in Greece 102 00:06:56,993 --> 00:07:04,710 but they were scattered! At the moment, we need a bond. 103 00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:09,950 We're missing a common ideal. A central idea that we know 104 00:07:09,950 --> 00:07:12,350 is common and we know we shouldn't deviate from. 105 00:07:12,350 --> 00:07:14,350 We can still talk about all the other issues, for sure, 106 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:17,070 but there should be that one thing we won't negociate or compromise: 107 00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:20,082 "We don't want professionals for the Constitutional Assembly." 108 00:07:20,082 --> 00:07:22,269 We can debate, but this point won't be subject to debate. 109 00:07:22,269 --> 00:07:27,149 If that is our bond, that would really be something. 110 00:07:27,149 --> 00:07:30,664 When you read Marx, you find many interesting ideas 111 00:07:30,664 --> 00:07:34,360 but there, in a sens, he completly failed. 112 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:41,480 He says nothing about the constitutional process. For him, the Constitution is the result. 113 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,451 That was a consequence of the balance of power. He's right in a way. 114 00:07:44,451 --> 00:07:48,989 But he's wrong because it is the tool that changes the balance of power. 115 00:07:48,989 --> 00:07:52,912 Hey! There should be something that should get you thinking 116 00:07:52,912 --> 00:07:56,152 when banks write the Constitution. 117 00:07:56,152 --> 00:07:58,592 Why do they write the Constitution? They're less ignorant than we are. 118 00:07:58,592 --> 00:08:01,552 We say: "It's the result of a balance of power, 119 00:08:01,552 --> 00:08:04,871 we don't need to take care of it. It will automatically come from a change in the balance of power." 120 00:08:04,871 --> 00:08:07,890 Banks are less ignorant: they write the European Constitution. 121 00:08:07,890 --> 00:08:11,373 It was written by them. They understood that it was the core piece to be played. 122 00:08:11,373 --> 00:08:16,899 The Gendarmes obey to the Constitution. The Army obeys the Constitution. 123 00:08:16,899 --> 00:08:22,192 Policemen are very "legalistic". They obey the Constitution. 124 00:08:22,192 --> 00:08:32,214 "Your conference is too long." I hope I'm not boring you all? You guys are great. 125 00:08:32,214 --> 00:08:38,785 You can write to me on the website if it's getting late and we... 126 00:08:38,785 --> 00:08:40,985 - The banks... 127 00:08:40,985 --> 00:08:44,965 - Yes. The bankers write the Constitution. Policemen obey the Constitution. 128 00:08:44,965 --> 00:08:48,785 If we find the way, not to write a perfect Constitution, 129 00:08:48,785 --> 00:08:54,305 but a Constitution with our ideas even if it's not perfect. 130 00:08:54,305 --> 00:08:58,905 That's the core that we need to spread to others. 131 00:08:58,905 --> 00:09:01,305 We need to convince that it will work because we'll be many. 132 00:09:01,305 --> 00:09:06,425 I'm sure that since it is a conflict of interest with people 133 00:09:06,425 --> 00:09:09,305 who want us to be powerless, who write those rules. 134 00:09:09,305 --> 00:09:13,897 In those rules, you can program our impotency 135 00:09:13,897 --> 00:09:17,426 or our strength. In the Constitution, you can program either our strength 136 00:09:17,426 --> 00:09:21,467 or our impotency. If that Constitution is written 137 00:09:21,467 --> 00:09:24,021 all around the world, during our history, by people who have a personal interest 138 00:09:24,021 --> 00:09:31,385 in our impotency... then you've found something. Marx for example never spotted it. 139 00:09:31,385 --> 00:09:34,610 I'm not completly anti-marxiste. It's complementary. 140 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:42,466 I honestly beleive that the 99% will have finally the means to resist 141 00:09:42,466 --> 00:09:48,059 instead of abandoning power, at least that kind of power, 142 00:09:48,059 --> 00:09:52,973 because we abandoned the great power that defines how we will write the rules; 143 00:09:52,973 --> 00:09:55,777 and how we will be able to resist instead of being pushed out. 144 00:09:55,777 --> 00:10:00,606 We must never abandon that power. Even if you don't take part in politics. 145 00:10:00,606 --> 00:10:03,679 If you are here tonight, you're already taking part in a way. But what we need to say 146 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:10,173 to those who don't do politics, and you're not concerned in this situation, 147 00:10:10,173 --> 00:10:13,238 but I receive every day emails from people who landed on the website by sheer luck. 148 00:10:13,238 --> 00:10:17,185 They saw a conference on Internet - and they didn't do politics before, 149 00:10:17,185 --> 00:10:20,119 they had renounced - and they write: "I've found something! 150 00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:27,449 I'm going to start looking at politics again!." This idea of taking the control back 151 00:10:27,449 --> 00:10:31,759 from the consitutional process, not the complete politics, is appealing. 152 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:35,483 If you take control of the constituant by saying: "I'm going to watch out 153 00:10:35,483 --> 00:10:38,919 that those writing the rules, up there, aren't in a conflict of interest." 154 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:42,960 You'll have many counter-powers put in place. Control systems 155 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,164 that will make sure that they watch each other and that you, you can watch them. 156 00:10:46,164 --> 00:10:48,811 You'll have a lot less to fear in the end. 157 00:10:48,811 --> 00:10:51,783 If you're not interested, you won't need to 158 00:10:51,783 --> 00:10:59,064 do politics, you'll be more protected because you took care of the start process, 159 00:10:59,064 --> 00:11:01,496 instead of all the consequences. There's just too many of those to divide us. 160 00:11:01,496 --> 00:11:04,303 That squatter us. You will have taken care of the root. The only thing 161 00:11:04,303 --> 00:11:10,924 that should unite us. This fertile ground where all the injustice grow from. 162 00:11:10,924 --> 00:11:13,543 Our political impotency. And now you're wound up. 163 00:11:13,543 --> 00:11:15,583 Why is it that we are so powerless in the Constitution? 164 00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:16,983 Why is there such a bad Constitution? 165 00:11:16,983 --> 00:11:18,383 Because those who wrote it are in conflict of interest. 166 00:11:18,383 --> 00:11:19,823 How do we change that ? How can we not have conflict of interest ? 167 00:11:19,823 --> 00:11:23,677 Here you have climbed to the root of causes. 168 00:11:23,677 --> 00:11:26,777 I am giving you this image of roots where I find the cause of causes, 169 00:11:26,777 --> 00:11:33,504 the root that starts it all. The fact that there are politic professionals 170 00:11:33,504 --> 00:11:37,939 who have an interest in the Constitution. The Constitution, they should fear it. 171 00:11:37,939 --> 00:11:42,714 They shouldn't be writing it ! That's "Chouardesc". 172 00:11:42,714 --> 00:11:45,416 - Don't you think that, added to the control of the Constitution, 173 00:11:45,416 --> 00:11:48,674 we should also take control of "logos" [greek], of the field of words? 174 00:11:48,674 --> 00:11:51,128 - Of the Constitutional Counsel ? You mean those who apply the Constitution ? 175 00:11:51,128 --> 00:11:54,611 - No but of ourselves. It's like you said at the beginning 176 00:11:54,611 --> 00:11:58,280 of the conference: the fact that nowadays, the words have their opposite meaning. 177 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:06,686 "Democracy" for example. - Ah yes, that's for sure - We should also reaquire the lexical fields. 178 00:12:06,686 --> 00:12:09,333 The "Logos". I am under the impression that we are going more and more towards 179 00:12:09,333 --> 00:12:11,674 a world like George Orwell described with the "Newspeak". 180 00:12:11,674 --> 00:12:13,714 The terms have completly been hackneyed, transformed. 181 00:12:13,714 --> 00:12:15,874 They don't mean anything anymore. 182 00:12:15,874 --> 00:12:20,622 - Of course, of course, of course. - [...] 183 00:12:20,622 --> 00:12:24,211 - Alright. Let's give ourselves 20 minutes and then there's a small pot luck. 184 00:12:24,211 --> 00:12:28,528 20 minutes? That's awfully short. 185 00:12:28,528 --> 00:12:32,506 In Grenoble, at the end of December, we finished at 1:30 AM. 186 00:12:32,506 --> 00:12:34,550 We had eyes like that. We didn't fall asleep neither! 187 00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:36,825 We finished at 1:30 AM because we really had to stop. 188 00:12:36,825 --> 00:12:46,314 - I'll rebound on Boris' idea and go in the same direction: 189 00:12:46,314 --> 00:12:48,994 we all agree on how it is now. It's not good. 190 00:12:48,994 --> 00:12:52,234 I start more with the idea that we shouldn't seperate 191 00:12:52,234 --> 00:12:57,677 but do a fusion of politics, economy and history and make one same job out of it. 192 00:12:57,677 --> 00:13:01,067 But you'd need that the voters be technical people. 193 00:13:01,067 --> 00:13:05,479 That is that they only get to vote for the people taking part in the discussions 194 00:13:05,479 --> 00:13:09,472 and who become technicians. By using this method, the whole debate will change. 195 00:13:09,472 --> 00:13:11,434 Those who actually will become candidates, 196 00:13:11,434 --> 00:13:14,514 they won't have a passionate speech like "Get France at work", 197 00:13:14,514 --> 00:13:17,474 they'll actually have a very technical speech, because they will know 198 00:13:17,474 --> 00:13:20,990 that their audience, those electing them, are also technical. 199 00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:24,333 They will have way pro's and con's ant that they won't be fools 200 00:13:24,333 --> 00:13:28,674 like those who actually don't care and who are completly influenced 201 00:13:28,674 --> 00:13:31,509 by current marketing technics. 202 00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:33,279 - That's a good argument, but... 203 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:38,599 - Anyone can be a technicians 204 00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:39,687 when they come in. 205 00:13:39,687 --> 00:13:42,987 - They are trained to become technicians ? - That's it. 206 00:13:42,987 --> 00:13:48,435 - You've got something there that's attractive and repulsive at the same time. 207 00:13:48,435 --> 00:13:50,942 It's attractive because it's true 208 00:13:50,942 --> 00:13:54,704 that technicians will probably be less passionate. 209 00:13:54,704 --> 00:13:59,116 But finaly, I beleive that's it's a bait. 210 00:13:59,116 --> 00:14:03,197 Right now, we are in a government of technicians. And it's horrible. 211 00:14:03,197 --> 00:14:05,682 - I meant the people become technicians. - You're not using the correct wording. 212 00:14:05,682 --> 00:14:08,268 - People who at least are interested by something. 213 00:14:08,268 --> 00:14:10,101 - It's actually coming back to Boris' idea, here. 214 00:14:10,101 --> 00:14:11,261 - It's going in his direction. 215 00:14:11,261 --> 00:14:13,314 - Yes but it's not necessarily technician. I find that 216 00:14:13,314 --> 00:14:16,751 the bet the Athenians made that says that political skill doesn't exist, 217 00:14:16,751 --> 00:14:21,581 that political technic doesn't exist, is a good one. We're all capable to taste chicken 218 00:14:21,581 --> 00:14:24,061 and say: "It's good, it's bad". And still, we're incapable of 219 00:14:24,061 --> 00:14:28,583 making it good or bad. It's an image of Alain in "Words about the powers" 220 00:14:28,583 --> 00:14:32,019 It must be the best book I have ever read - and I've read many - 221 00:14:32,019 --> 00:14:35,177 but I honestly beleive it to be the best in the world. I'm just slightly exagerating 222 00:14:35,177 --> 00:14:37,221 because I'd probably put two or three up there, 223 00:14:37,221 --> 00:14:40,750 but the "Words about the powers" is just a marvel, a real marvel. 224 00:14:40,750 --> 00:14:45,208 He talked about the objection about skill. He said: 225 00:14:45,208 --> 00:14:47,902 " It's not reasonable to get tricked by..." 226 00:14:47,902 --> 00:14:51,714 He didn't use those exact words but it's not normal that parlementarians 227 00:14:51,714 --> 00:14:55,611 should trick the voter into beleiving that they are skilled and we aren't. 228 00:14:55,611 --> 00:15:01,994 He takes the image of the politics' consumer that are the citizens 229 00:15:01,994 --> 00:15:05,549 who have delegated to the parlementarians in exchange of services, 230 00:15:05,549 --> 00:15:09,496 and who say: "I am well capable of knowing that what you have now given me isn't good, 231 00:15:09,496 --> 00:15:12,474 and that you need to be punished even if I am not technician. I'll just say 232 00:15:12,474 --> 00:15:18,014 you have not achieved your result." There is another image when he talks about 233 00:15:18,014 --> 00:15:23,593 knowing who is the master of the ship. He says: "Yes, maybe that we need 234 00:15:23,593 --> 00:15:27,119 technicians at the parlement who are the ships' captain, 235 00:15:27,119 --> 00:15:31,513 who know how to navigate the ship, be we are the ships' owner." 236 00:15:31,513 --> 00:15:33,273 That is we say where the ship has to go. 237 00:15:33,273 --> 00:15:36,361 Captains don't decide of the destination of their ship, owners do. Images let you understand. 238 00:15:36,361 --> 00:15:39,519 In my eyes, the technician, it's just like Keynes said: "Economists, 239 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:42,193 fly to the back seat! They're not going to have the steering wheel!" 240 00:15:42,193 --> 00:15:45,602 Technicians should be the same. They shouldn't hold the steering wheel. 241 00:15:45,602 --> 00:15:49,457 Otherwise we'll end up with Big Brother. But at the same time, I understand your point. 242 00:15:49,457 --> 00:15:52,713 - You're mixing economist, banker, and financial people. 243 00:15:52,713 --> 00:15:53,753 - It's all the same to me. 244 00:15:53,753 --> 00:15:56,833 - No, an economist is someone who has worked, who has theories, 245 00:15:56,833 --> 00:16:00,695 with books of thousands of pages, and who has as goal 246 00:16:00,695 --> 00:16:05,233 to get the folk richer, with social justice. Economists 247 00:16:05,233 --> 00:16:08,915 work towards that. It's nothing to do with financial people and bankers 248 00:16:08,915 --> 00:16:10,313 who try to scratch every penny off our backs. 249 00:16:10,313 --> 00:16:13,188 - The immense majority of economists are payed off by finance people 250 00:16:13,188 --> 00:16:20,686 and by sales people who try to legitimiate the domination by the rich. 251 00:16:20,686 --> 00:16:23,236 You have exceptions, but globally, economists are... 252 00:16:23,236 --> 00:16:26,347 - I think that the first thing we should do, is to try and make people realise 253 00:16:26,347 --> 00:16:32,199 that they are in pure political consumption nowadays. 254 00:16:32,199 --> 00:16:35,310 They should see that there is another way to see politics. That would already be a step. 255 00:16:35,310 --> 00:16:40,790 To make them realise that we can act at our own level. 256 00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:45,295 - Yes, but you must hear Alexander as well because I've also lived through it. 257 00:16:45,295 --> 00:16:48,787 Many times. There are many people, 258 00:16:48,787 --> 00:16:51,193 when you come and talk politics, who say: "Wait a second, you've just talked about politics here. 259 00:16:51,193 --> 00:16:54,351 I've listened to you because we're friends. But don't 260 00:16:54,351 --> 00:16:57,137 do this to me a second time, otherwise I'll just never come again." 261 00:16:57,137 --> 00:17:01,410 They just don't want to hear about it at all. They want to hear about soccer, 262 00:17:01,410 --> 00:17:03,871 television and so on. And still, they vote. So Boris' idea is a very good one. 263 00:17:03,871 --> 00:17:06,379 - They've done everything so that it is that way. 264 00:17:06,379 --> 00:17:09,165 - Watch out, watch out! No, please, watch out. 265 00:17:09,165 --> 00:17:13,075 In what Boris has said, there is something very important. 266 00:17:13,075 --> 00:17:16,612 Actually a couple of things. That is that civilians must be protected. 267 00:17:16,612 --> 00:17:19,398 What we called "civilians" anyhow. I like the word, I had never used it like that. 268 00:17:19,398 --> 00:17:22,045 Why not ? But you could use "electing citizen". 269 00:17:22,045 --> 00:17:24,506 That is civilians who are voters. 270 00:17:24,506 --> 00:17:26,689 - Why do you need to make a distinction? 271 00:17:26,689 --> 00:17:28,640 - You have to. People aren't the same. 272 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,423 - Are we equal as human beings? 273 00:17:32,423 --> 00:17:35,067 - What do you mean? Please try to develop 274 00:17:35,067 --> 00:17:36,228 your thought. What do you mean by that? 275 00:17:36,228 --> 00:17:41,197 - We aren't equal. - We aren't equal in the will that we put into things. 276 00:17:41,197 --> 00:17:46,104 - If you have civilians on one side and citizens on the other, you have no equality. 277 00:17:46,104 --> 00:17:47,517 - What is your name? 278 00:17:47,517 --> 00:17:48,864 - Monique. 279 00:17:48,864 --> 00:17:54,820 - Monique, can we not say that we are all equals 280 00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:58,849 in the sens that we all have the right to become citizen whenever we want ? 281 00:17:58,849 --> 00:18:04,514 Monique, this isn't a twist and twirl. It's not a political lie 282 00:18:04,514 --> 00:18:08,293 that hides a non when it said yes or the opposite. It's just true. 283 00:18:08,293 --> 00:18:13,030 Is it not a true liberty, a true equality to say: 284 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:18,881 " As long as you don't want to, you aren't, and when you wan, you will be. " 285 00:18:18,881 --> 00:18:22,875 Is that not an equality ? We don't have to all do the same things, Monique. 286 00:18:22,875 --> 00:18:26,358 - It's like becoming French, you need to choose. That's just wrong to have to choose. 287 00:18:26,358 --> 00:18:27,426 - Yes, but it's the same. 288 00:18:27,426 --> 00:18:29,917 - I don't agree with that. 289 00:18:29,917 --> 00:18:30,909 - Why does it bother you? 290 00:18:30,909 --> 00:18:32,237 - I find it shocking.. 291 00:18:32,237 --> 00:18:34,117 - It's not just the French. I think that all human beings in the world say that. 292 00:18:35,837 --> 00:18:37,736 - Either we're all citizens or we're not. 293 00:18:37,736 --> 00:18:43,077 - Then go operate on people as a doctor. And the next day, you'll see the result. You can't become 294 00:18:43,077 --> 00:18:46,188 a doctor overnight. However each of us has equal chances. 295 00:18:46,188 --> 00:18:48,510 If you want to become a doctor like him, you can. 296 00:18:48,510 --> 00:18:53,758 - No, Alexandre, that's not the objection. Alexandre 297 00:18:53,758 --> 00:18:56,405 that not a real objection because in politics, there are no skills. 298 00:18:56,405 --> 00:19:00,315 You can't compare with a doctor. It's not the correct answer. 299 00:19:00,315 --> 00:19:02,557 Because it's not a question of skill, it's a question of will. 300 00:19:02,557 --> 00:19:06,922 The Doctor has a skill. The answer using the image of the doctor 301 00:19:06,922 --> 00:19:10,220 does not fit to answer Monique. Monique says: 302 00:19:10,220 --> 00:19:14,353 "Wait a second. We're equal or we aren't equal. If we're equal, 303 00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:17,279 don't start making political distinctions between people." 304 00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:21,644 And you say: "You have to admit that we aren't equal. 305 00:19:21,644 --> 00:19:25,220 The doctor has a skill that you must reconize." 306 00:19:25,220 --> 00:19:29,316 The democractes in Athens, they didn't say 307 00:19:29,316 --> 00:19:31,721 that you needed to randomnly pick someone to be a doctor. 308 00:19:31,721 --> 00:19:33,596 - It's not equality of knowledge. 309 00:19:33,596 --> 00:19:37,016 - What Monique is asking for is political equality, not equality of knowledge. 310 00:19:37,016 --> 00:19:49,608 But Monique, that's actually very interesting. It's a very interesting and important subject. 311 00:19:49,608 --> 00:19:54,713 - For me, equality isn't equality of chances or equality of will. 312 00:19:54,713 --> 00:19:58,411 We aren't all equal in regards to the will 313 00:19:58,411 --> 00:20:01,826 that we can have towards an object. You need to want it. 314 00:20:05,975 --> 00:20:09,970 - We are all equal, we are all... 315 00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:12,506 - Monique 316 00:20:12,506 --> 00:20:14,343 - You shouldn't have to impose equality, simply. 317 00:20:14,343 --> 00:20:19,616 - Monique, what Boris is saying isn't a political inequality. 318 00:20:19,616 --> 00:20:23,778 It's not saying politically, we're not equal. He say that there is a political equality 319 00:20:23,778 --> 00:20:25,716 but a inequality of will. 320 00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:34,119 - I'm not skilled! I've heard about you three weeks ago, 321 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,992 I haven't graduated highschool, I'm not skilled. I paint buildings. I don't know anything. 322 00:20:38,992 --> 00:20:45,202 I know nothing. What I want to say is: Boris, you have people like me 323 00:20:45,202 --> 00:20:47,509 who aren't skilled. We are several like this. 324 00:20:47,509 --> 00:20:49,499 - But you are skilled because you are here. 325 00:20:49,499 --> 00:20:54,103 - No, I am not skilled. I didn't want to bother with politics. I'm in the 99%. 326 00:20:54,103 --> 00:20:55,510 - And yet you are here. You're here. 327 00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:58,219 - I'm happy because it started to interest me. There is something 328 00:20:58,219 --> 00:21:04,296 that spoke to me. - Because you want it. - I am motivated. 329 00:21:04,296 --> 00:21:06,736 - Because you are here, your vote counts more than that of someone who isn't here. 330 00:21:06,736 --> 00:21:08,636 That's all. That's what we're trying to say. 331 00:21:08,636 --> 00:21:12,476 - That's why it's very important not to talk about skill, Alexandre. 332 00:21:12,476 --> 00:21:15,622 - I am not against it. What I mean is that I think there is a problem. 333 00:21:15,622 --> 00:21:16,314 - A problem of wording. 334 00:21:26,157 --> 00:21:28,217 - You say that you've followed what he's been doing for 6 years. I have been for 3 weeks. 335 00:21:28,217 --> 00:21:31,632 - I have wrongly chosen my words. But I honestly think that someone like you 336 00:21:31,632 --> 00:21:34,529 is more apt to vote than someone who never came at all. 337 00:21:34,529 --> 00:21:36,557 - Because she wants it. Because she wants it. 338 00:21:36,557 --> 00:21:40,264 But it's true, Monique. You see how it holds together? 339 00:21:40,264 --> 00:21:41,513 - What is bothering you, Monique? 340 00:21:41,513 --> 00:21:43,695 - For me, it's not unequal. That's why it's getting me angry 341 00:21:43,695 --> 00:21:46,295 because we say it's unequal. For me, the fact that you are here, 342 00:21:46,295 --> 00:21:50,723 is the proof that it has nothing to do with social background. It's the will to want it. 343 00:21:50,723 --> 00:21:54,346 Just to want it is simply enough as criteria. If you don't want it, 344 00:21:54,346 --> 00:21:57,085 then you should be able to vote because it's a weapon of mass destruction 345 00:21:57,085 --> 00:22:01,660 to let someone who doesn't care vote. 346 00:22:01,660 --> 00:22:15,676 - What is bothering you, Monique? - Look, political extremists, they have the will. 347 00:22:15,676 --> 00:22:25,811 - Why are you talking about extremists? You have the far right, the far left, the center. 348 00:22:25,811 --> 00:22:28,267 - We're talking about the will to be citizen or not. 349 00:22:28,267 --> 00:22:33,751 - Yes. 350 00:22:33,751 --> 00:22:37,821 - They're in the dark. Can someone put a light on? 351 00:22:37,821 --> 00:22:47,956 - How can you judge the aptitude, 352 00:22:47,956 --> 00:22:52,183 what is necessary to become a citizen? 353 00:22:52,183 --> 00:22:59,470 Because we're talking about personal aptitude. 354 00:22:59,470 --> 00:23:03,909 - We're talking about the will! If they want it, only if they want it. 355 00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:10,267 - And someone who doesn't have the will. It's a question of education... 356 00:23:10,267 --> 00:23:15,608 Each of us, how come we are who we are? How do you end up being interested 357 00:23:15,608 --> 00:23:19,290 and how are you capable of making the distinction between a civilian and a citizen? 358 00:23:19,290 --> 00:23:23,563 - The idea is to put marketing aside and it's influence on us, 359 00:23:23,563 --> 00:23:25,984 on the people who don't care. Those people come to vote 360 00:23:25,984 --> 00:23:29,746 and they are undecided, voting yes or no on a hunch. 361 00:23:29,746 --> 00:23:32,997 " That one is pretty, I'll vote yes or no. " And in the end, 362 00:23:32,997 --> 00:23:37,212 he could do a lot more damage than good. But if you are interested... 363 00:23:37,212 --> 00:23:42,152 - I find that you are making too many jugements. 364 00:23:42,152 --> 00:23:43,832 - Let her give an anwer. 365 00:23:50,086 --> 00:23:52,594 - It's a beautiful ping-pong here. But it would be grand 366 00:23:52,594 --> 00:23:55,519 if you didn't talk simultanously. It's really a great exchange. 367 00:23:55,519 --> 00:24:00,349 Very interesting. But we should develop a sort of discipline. 368 00:24:00,349 --> 00:24:03,507 When one is talking, no one else talks. 369 00:24:03,507 --> 00:24:07,315 Every time, it's very interesting. One questions and then another answers. 370 00:24:07,315 --> 00:24:09,265 But then the first needs to answer back because it's not finished. 371 00:24:09,265 --> 00:24:13,166 Monique hasn't finished. She needs to be able to defend her point of view. 372 00:24:13,166 --> 00:24:15,872 But please don't talk at the same time. 373 00:24:15,872 --> 00:24:18,693 I can impose my speech because I have a microphone here but 374 00:24:18,693 --> 00:24:22,953 you guys don't have one. So you need to listen closely to hear. It's important 375 00:24:22,953 --> 00:24:28,315 that we all stop talking when you are in a ping-pong debate. It's very interesting what you've been saying 376 00:24:28,315 --> 00:24:31,856 and I'm sure it's just a question of wording. It's actually quite defendable to have the idea 377 00:24:31,856 --> 00:24:36,500 of multiple regimes. A little bit like when we accept 378 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:41,098 that someone doesn't go voting. We give him the right not to vote 379 00:24:41,098 --> 00:24:45,760 and he uses his power only when he votes. Monique, is that it ? No? 380 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,628 You don't force them to vote? - Not at all. - Then it's the same here. 381 00:24:50,628 --> 00:24:55,458 The guy who isn't a citizen, he can become one. 382 00:24:55,458 --> 00:24:57,873 - Why give a particular name to the guy who doesn't vote? 383 00:24:57,873 --> 00:25:01,867 - Because there is power for those 384 00:25:01,867 --> 00:25:07,393 who are citizens and who want it. But you can solve this. 385 00:25:07,393 --> 00:25:10,319 They are imagining a position / status. In my opinion 386 00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:13,987 when you have a large assembly and people come like in Athens 387 00:25:13,987 --> 00:25:17,145 depending on what the subject is... you already have the distinction. 388 00:25:17,145 --> 00:25:18,074 - Yes, exactly. 389 00:25:18,074 --> 00:25:22,393 - So you don't need a position / status, Boris. You see what I mean ? 390 00:25:22,393 --> 00:25:26,254 If we vote our laws, that is that we stop accepting 391 00:25:26,254 --> 00:25:28,988 to be represented. We say: "We don't want representatives anymore, 392 00:25:28,988 --> 00:25:32,981 we want to vote our laws ourselves." Then, when we assemble, 393 00:25:32,981 --> 00:25:36,836 neighbourhood by neighbourhood, town by town, we vote directly our laws. 394 00:25:36,836 --> 00:25:40,876 In that case, we are exactly in the situation you already know. 395 00:25:40,876 --> 00:25:44,173 What you already accept. People come to vote if they want to, 396 00:25:44,173 --> 00:25:46,728 and you won't force the others. Come to vote those who want. 397 00:25:46,728 --> 00:25:49,421 Thos who come are those who want. Those are your citizens. 398 00:25:49,421 --> 00:25:51,139 You don't need to tag them with a name or not. 399 00:25:51,139 --> 00:25:53,229 - What you're advising is the final goal. I would like 400 00:25:53,229 --> 00:25:54,669 that we reach it. 401 00:25:54,669 --> 00:25:55,458 - And you don't need a special name tag for it. 402 00:25:55,458 --> 00:25:59,452 - But in the mean time, you need a politic, let us say, of "evangelisation" of the citizens. 403 00:26:04,468 --> 00:26:06,465 - That's not the right word! - What you're looking for is a lever. 404 00:26:06,465 --> 00:26:10,087 - Don't take it personnaly, it's just a word. 405 00:26:10,087 --> 00:26:12,827 - You need a distinction, you need two tags at start to motivate people. 406 00:26:12,827 --> 00:26:16,821 To make them citizens. You need to motivate civilians to transform them into Citizens. 407 00:26:16,821 --> 00:26:21,976 - Boris, you do get the feeling that... I understand your aptitude. 408 00:26:21,976 --> 00:26:24,530 You count on the aristoractic aspect 409 00:26:24,530 --> 00:26:27,223 but aristocratic in the good sens of the word. 410 00:26:27,223 --> 00:26:29,034 It's like the legion of honor (NT: french honorary medal). 411 00:26:29,034 --> 00:26:29,917 - Yes, exactly. 412 00:26:29,917 --> 00:26:31,589 - a sort of diploma to make people want it. 413 00:26:31,589 --> 00:26:34,329 To make them want to take part because people are touched by 414 00:26:34,329 --> 00:26:37,997 medals. Others see that as discrimination. 415 00:26:37,997 --> 00:26:41,248 They say: "Wait, you have two categories of citizens here." 416 00:26:41,248 --> 00:26:43,477 You'll have, like they used to say during the French Revolution, 417 00:26:43,477 --> 00:26:46,821 and it was shameful, you had active citizens, those who voted, 418 00:26:46,821 --> 00:26:50,531 and passive citizens who weren't worth anything. It's revolting. 419 00:26:50,531 --> 00:26:53,973 I know that's not what you're thinking of and still, that's what it suggests. 420 00:26:53,973 --> 00:26:59,638 "It's just too long, your involvment" - that's what the tag, the diploma suggests. 421 00:26:59,638 --> 00:27:01,496 In my eyes, we don't need it. 422 00:27:01,496 --> 00:27:04,050 - The will is The thing in the world best shared, 423 00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:06,279 everyone has will, what ever the social class you belong to, what ever the... 424 00:27:16,775 --> 00:27:19,097 - It's very interesting but I find that what you are proposing 425 00:27:19,097 --> 00:27:23,601 but it supposes that the problem is already solved. 426 00:27:23,601 --> 00:27:27,131 What shall we do if the people have already taken back political power 427 00:27:27,131 --> 00:27:30,846 and how shall we organise it? I think that what is more interesting, 428 00:27:30,846 --> 00:27:35,629 and in that case, you can imagine many positive, creative things and so on... 429 00:27:35,629 --> 00:27:41,408 ...You see what I mean ? 430 00:27:41,408 --> 00:27:43,431 What I am more interested about is how to get the message through to the people. 431 00:27:43,431 --> 00:27:46,821 How to "snow ball effect" it all ? How we manage to federate each other 432 00:27:46,821 --> 00:27:49,283 to be white blood cells and put the tools in place together? 433 00:27:49,283 --> 00:27:54,855 To work with Internet, with a decentralised organisation. That's what is the core right now. 434 00:27:54,855 --> 00:27:58,756 And we need to think about the "form". How are we going to present things? 435 00:27:58,756 --> 00:28:03,075 The critism we receive it not on the core of random draw / common lot. 436 00:28:03,075 --> 00:28:07,162 It's more on the form. It the random draw 437 00:28:07,162 --> 00:28:10,598 really that essential thing? Or is it controling our elected representatives? 438 00:28:10,598 --> 00:28:15,196 And then again, short mandates, non-renewable, 439 00:28:15,196 --> 00:28:19,840 and sword of Damocles that should stay above them. So if we want a real movement 440 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,880 where we pass ideas through, do we first talk about the random draw ? 441 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,128 It seems essential in the constitutional process 442 00:28:29,128 --> 00:28:31,125 but then I think that it's rather on other ideas 443 00:28:31,125 --> 00:28:33,493 that we should focus that are far more important. 444 00:28:33,493 --> 00:28:35,955 And since we write "Central process: the random draw / common lot." 445 00:28:35,955 --> 00:28:38,277 you have to ask yourselves if, in the end, it is not less central 446 00:28:38,277 --> 00:28:43,942 than other elements. Second point, to finish, 447 00:28:43,942 --> 00:28:46,868 it's on the root of causes. I don't beleive there is a root to the causes, 448 00:28:46,868 --> 00:28:49,004 in the sens that the causality isn't linear, cartesian, 449 00:28:49,004 --> 00:28:52,023 but it is rather complex. There are multiple things 450 00:28:52,023 --> 00:28:55,367 who are going to co-create reality. So we have many points. 451 00:28:55,367 --> 00:28:58,153 So: is it the monetary system or is it 452 00:28:58,153 --> 00:29:04,608 the lack of attention towards who writes the Constitution? Or is it, 453 00:29:04,608 --> 00:29:08,555 as an example, rarety of goods? Before, when bread was available 454 00:29:08,555 --> 00:29:12,085 for 100 people, we'll all fight for it. It's mechanical. 455 00:29:12,085 --> 00:29:15,103 It always worked that way. We have erased rarety 456 00:29:15,103 --> 00:29:19,515 through technology. Today, we live in a society of abundance. 457 00:29:19,515 --> 00:29:24,670 of opulence sometimes, and we keep it going. So you have to think 458 00:29:24,670 --> 00:29:28,014 that our economical system and its' mechanisms and contingencies, 459 00:29:28,014 --> 00:29:31,032 but more it's mechanisms, are maintained for rarety 460 00:29:31,032 --> 00:29:36,094 to maintain the monetary system. It's Thorstein Veblen who said, at the beggining of the century, 461 00:29:36,094 --> 00:29:40,831 an institutionalist economist, who had a global vision of society: 462 00:29:40,831 --> 00:29:44,361 sociology, economy, politics, right, and so on, 463 00:29:44,361 --> 00:29:48,912 and he showed that there is a real paradox between the usage value and the merchant value. 464 00:29:48,912 --> 00:29:54,345 The usage value is what the engineers planned for it's use. The use you have 465 00:29:54,345 --> 00:29:57,782 for that good or service. The engineers will create the abundance (or try). 466 00:29:57,782 --> 00:30:01,172 To create systems that will produce more with less and so on. 467 00:30:01,172 --> 00:30:04,841 And the merchant value is, in fact, the law of offer and demand. 468 00:30:04,841 --> 00:30:08,277 The more abundant a good, the less it costs. 469 00:30:08,277 --> 00:30:10,135 The more rare a skill is, the higher its' price. 470 00:30:10,135 --> 00:30:14,314 I hope that you understand. The more it is abundant 471 00:30:14,314 --> 00:30:15,940 the less expensive it is and the less profit you can make. 472 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:19,841 So you maintain the factories and the machines so they don't produce too much. 473 00:30:19,841 --> 00:30:24,670 The rarety is maintained by the economical system, by the logic of profit. 474 00:30:24,670 --> 00:30:31,404 That's also central. So let's come back 475 00:30:31,404 --> 00:30:33,777 to economory rather than: what will we do 476 00:30:33,777 --> 00:30:51,411 when the problem is already solved? 477 00:30:51,411 --> 00:30:53,588 - I'll start with the second, the multifactorial. 478 00:30:53,588 --> 00:30:57,759 It's true that you have many factors involved and when you are searching the root of causes 479 00:30:57,759 --> 00:31:02,886 you won't find a unique cause. That's not what we're looking for: we're looking 480 00:31:02,886 --> 00:31:09,209 to heal a sickness. And the root of causes, it's amongst the very first ones 481 00:31:09,209 --> 00:31:15,741 -and it's true that you can have more than one- we're looking for at least a determining one. 482 00:31:15,741 --> 00:31:22,834 One that determines the others. That means, by definition, that if you change it, you change everything 483 00:31:22,834 --> 00:31:26,105 that runs from it. That's what we're looking for. So maybe you are right: 484 00:31:26,105 --> 00:31:35,304 maybe we'll find another way that the one I am suggesting which is to change the right of right 485 00:31:35,304 --> 00:31:39,718 to stop having a injuste right and get out of all the injustices. 486 00:31:39,718 --> 00:31:45,627 When I say that we have to reestablish our political power, 487 00:31:45,627 --> 00:31:52,229 I count on chance and multiplicity, the biodiversity of our requirements 488 00:31:52,229 --> 00:31:57,606 and of our strifes, once we have made ourselves powerful, we will be capable 489 00:31:57,606 --> 00:32:00,534 of correcting injustices. Or at least a great number of injustices. 490 00:32:00,534 --> 00:32:03,583 Because we will have solved something that is determining. 491 00:32:03,583 --> 00:32:06,535 I know that it's not everything 492 00:32:06,535 --> 00:32:08,327 I know very well that there are many factors. 493 00:32:08,327 --> 00:32:12,830 Our political prison has been built by the most rich 494 00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:16,468 because the 1% have started with the help of their wealth 495 00:32:16,468 --> 00:32:22,044 corrupting political actors now to make sure they become richer than rich. 496 00:32:22,044 --> 00:32:30,024 It's Bonaparte, and I musn't use curse words, that awful clown of Bonaparte, 497 00:32:30,024 --> 00:32:31,432 who pushed by the financial people who wanted to build the Bank of France, 498 00:32:31,432 --> 00:32:34,617 who won all the wars, because he got payed his wars. 499 00:32:34,617 --> 00:32:39,954 Because they helped him everywhere. Each time he has enemies, they get pushed aside. 500 00:32:39,954 --> 00:32:41,592 We fabricate his chance! 501 00:32:41,592 --> 00:32:45,483 Until on day, he sends it back your way and creates the Bank, called "Bank of France" 502 00:32:45,483 --> 00:32:50,385 but is in reality the beggining of the grand racketeering that put those people 503 00:32:50,385 --> 00:32:52,929 in control of the power all the time. 504 00:32:53,806 --> 00:32:56,748 I know that the starting point was wealth. 505 00:32:58,071 --> 00:33:03,938 But what multiplied by ten their wealth was universal suffrage. 506 00:33:03,938 --> 00:33:10,052 That's what let them, through parlementarians, to take control of the production of rights. 507 00:33:11,375 --> 00:33:16,898 If we get that, we'll boost it all. We might not 508 00:33:16,898 --> 00:33:21,543 get rid of the rich or cupidity, but at least we'll take away the turbo button from the engine. 509 00:33:21,543 --> 00:33:27,517 By taking away universal suffrage, after 200 years, we prove 510 00:33:27,517 --> 00:33:30,887 that it hasn't held up to it's promises. By taking away the turbo, by putting instead the random draw with all the counter-powers 511 00:33:30,887 --> 00:33:38,208 that go with it: we'll partially regain political power. It will help us solve the problems we have. 512 00:33:38,208 --> 00:33:40,870 I know that it's not a "cure-all", and I am not expecting perfection. 513 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:44,143 Actually, I've answered your two points I think. 514 00:33:44,985 --> 00:33:47,617 Because when you say: "Random draw is not essential, 515 00:33:50,624 --> 00:33:55,555 nor central, it's controlling the elected representatives that is." The problem is that the control of the elected representatives 516 00:33:58,309 --> 00:34:02,160 you have to program it in a Constitution. 517 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,120 Frédéric. It's Frédéric right ? - Sebastien - Sebastien, sorry 518 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:10,820 Sebastien, to get the control of the elected representatives. You'll have to write it in a Constitution. 519 00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:13,998 So you say: "The most imporant is the control of the elected representatives." 520 00:34:13,998 --> 00:34:16,669 That control, I've seen it as well. When I analysed, 521 00:34:16,669 --> 00:34:20,154 I said: "My political impotency, it comes from the fact that I can't control my elected representatives. 522 00:34:20,154 --> 00:34:23,409 Why can't I control them ? It's because I have a bad Constitution. 523 00:34:23,409 --> 00:34:26,834 Why do I have a bad Constitution? Because the elected representatives write it!" 524 00:34:26,834 --> 00:34:30,680 I understand what you are saying but for me, that's a starting point. 525 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,303 It's one of the causes. And even better, it's one of the root of the causes. 526 00:34:34,303 --> 00:34:39,526 If you tell me: "You just need to control your representatives." I'll tell you: "Well yes." But how are you going to do that? 527 00:34:39,526 --> 00:34:43,711 If you don't solve the problem of who writes the Constitution, you let the representatives 528 00:34:43,711 --> 00:34:46,381 write the Constitution. You can wait ages that they write the control of the representatives. 529 00:34:46,381 --> 00:34:48,681 They never will! You see what I am saying? In that logic of multiple factors, 530 00:34:48,681 --> 00:34:55,719 you have determining factors. It is because the representatives write the Constitution that 531 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,338 you don't see the control of representatives in the Constitution. Not the other way around! 532 00:34:59,338 --> 00:35:07,418 - For me, it's because we have rarety that we are obliged to organise ourselves with the market principle. You didn't have enough 533 00:35:07,418 --> 00:35:10,851 to distribute to everyone. Se we were obliged to enter a model with concurrence and competition. 534 00:35:11,543 --> 00:35:15,050 - What is the link between market system and who writes the Constitution ? 535 00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:17,167 - The root of causes of what ? The root of causes of our actual problems? 536 00:35:17,167 --> 00:35:18,951 - Of our political powerlessness! 537 00:35:18,951 --> 00:35:20,313 - Alright. 538 00:35:20,313 --> 00:35:26,694 - Of our political impotency to resist on money, to resist to rarety, to resist on the injust right of a company (on it's employees), 539 00:35:26,694 --> 00:35:33,615 to resist on... Our political impotency has a powerful cause that, in my opinion, can be solved with the random draw. 540 00:35:33,615 --> 00:35:39,354 - What he wants to say is that we might need, at a punctual moment, to have a mass of people randomnly chosen to write 541 00:35:39,354 --> 00:35:46,333 a robust Constitution. - A just one. - Suffisiantly robust that we don't need to randomnly draw afterwards. Maybe that's what he's been trying to say. 542 00:35:46,333 --> 00:35:51,985 - Absolutly! Absolutly! I agree with that! In my opinion, we'd still need some of it. We're not obliged to have a complete democracy. 543 00:35:51,985 --> 00:35:59,352 Not at all. I am becoming, progressively, without wanting to, a defender of that kind of regime. 544 00:35:59,352 --> 00:36:05,217 Because apparently, by explaining it I help make people understand what could help us to get out of this mess. 545 00:36:05,217 --> 00:36:10,279 Because it is things that have worked, that have been tested, ground, bettered over 200 years. 546 00:36:10,279 --> 00:36:17,001 We could really use it. But in parallel to these thoughts about pure democracy, 547 00:36:17,001 --> 00:36:25,477 true democracy, I also have many advanced thoughts, very varied, very documented on how to to improve the representative government. 548 00:36:25,477 --> 00:36:31,293 We'd keep elected representatives, we'd keep MPs, simply we'd control them a lot better. 549 00:36:31,293 --> 00:36:37,144 But I still need random draw / common lot for the Constitutional Assembly. 550 00:36:37,144 --> 00:36:41,516 Unless you find a better idea than the random draw to end up with desinterested Constitutional Assembly. 551 00:36:45,024 --> 00:36:46,416 - A royal dictatorship. - Why not ? But you need garantees. 552 00:36:46,416 --> 00:36:47,032 How ? 553 00:36:49,395 --> 00:36:53,297 - The problem of the Sauvé Report (NT: about conflict of interest in public society), MP's just sat on it. It's what I told you: 554 00:36:53,297 --> 00:37:00,232 ask representatives to write rules to which they have to submit. On conflict of interests in particular, 555 00:37:00,232 --> 00:37:01,717 you can see that it doesn't work. 556 00:37:06,609 --> 00:37:12,807 Our senators don't want to vote the law. The Nationale Assembly doesn't feel thrilled by it. So I'm completly with you on this. 557 00:37:15,253 --> 00:37:21,285 - So we agree to make it a priority ? Maybe not the only one, 558 00:37:21,285 --> 00:37:23,200 but a priority it's better when it's alone. 559 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:35,791 A priority to solve maybe not all situations, Alain. Alain is gone ? - Yes. - Rats... Well maybe not to solve all problems, 560 00:37:35,791 --> 00:37:37,859 but to solve a great deal. Can we agree on the idea of a priority that would be... - Changing the system. 561 00:37:41,752 --> 00:37:46,340 - That is to impose, to put in what we want, 562 00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:50,909 a Constitutional Assembly without political professionals. 563 00:37:50,909 --> 00:37:55,500 People who don't want to be in power. We want that in the Constitution, we want people who 564 00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:59,446 renounce the futur power, first, then that they aren't professionals. 565 00:38:01,031 --> 00:38:03,369 Or is there something about this that bothers you ? 566 00:38:03,657 --> 00:38:07,943 - It goes already too far and Venezuela has prooved that even with professionals of politics, 567 00:38:07,943 --> 00:38:09,407 you can still achieve something a lot better than what we have 568 00:38:09,407 --> 00:38:12,087 today in France. Even if it isn't real democracy, 569 00:38:12,087 --> 00:38:17,329 they still have, through professionals who wrote the Constitution, 570 00:38:17,329 --> 99:59:59,999 they still voted it in. - It's the people. They wrote it.