WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.000 -I would like to know your opinion or... what emerges from it... 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:07.000 ... about this small reading; that's going to be very short. 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.000 Then: "Freedom of expression is applicable not only to information or ideas 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.000 that are favorably received or regarded as inoffensive or indifferent, 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:19.000 but also to those that offend, shock or disturb. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:22.000 So... So goes with pluralism, tolerance and open-mindedness 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.000 without which there is no democratic society." 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:29.000 This is the European Court of Human Rights who wrote that in 1976. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.000 What does that inspire you? 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.000 - Eh, I go back in time... further, because... 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.000 ... I find this idea... in Athens, 2500 years ago. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:46.000 The Athenians cared about the isegoria, the right to speak for everyone, about every subject, 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 and at any time, the right to public speech. 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:54.000 They cared about it more than about the isonomia, equality before the law and... 00:00:55.000 --> 00:01:00.000 They cared about it because, in fact, it was as an hygienic measure, 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.000 a measure of protection, safeguarding democracy. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.000 Because when we call on everyone... 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.000 ... we... it makes the citizens sentinels. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Every citizen can become a ... a guardian of democracy 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.000 and a whistleblower of... drifts. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:24.000 And... the Athenians were well aware that... there were going to be... false alarms, 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:30.000 dissident thoughts that would be... stupid or... hostile or ... 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.000 ... but it doesn't matter, it doesn't. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.000 It is better... As we don't know in advance what are the thoughts 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.000 that will be useful and those that will be harmful or... inappropriate, 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.000 as no one can say in advance what are the dissident thoughts 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.000 which are going to be useful or not, 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.000 well then they are given... we call on everyone, they are allowed all. 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.000 And... 00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:01.000 ... many great thinkers have... defended this freedom of expression as ... 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:09.000 ... a ... a base part of a free, pacified society. 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.000 So... So on the one hand, this freedom of expression, 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:18.000 it allows every citizen to become... a sentinel of democracy 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:23.000 but it is not everything; there is also the will of... 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.000 which... is in the background... which comes because a democracy ... 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:35.000 ... bets that we can, we all together, 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.000 gathered in an assembly, 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.000 not by officials but all of us directly. 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.000 So not all, because everyone doesn't come, but anyone who wants. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.000 In a democracy, necessarily direct... 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.000 ... indirect democracy is an oxymoron; democracy is mechanically 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:56.000 by definition, direct, direct democracy, this is a pleonasm. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.000 In a direct democracy, we ... we bet that we are able 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.000 to make the right decisions for ourselves. 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:08.000 So of course, the oligarchs or representatives, ... elected officials... 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.000 ... claim that we are incompetent 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.000 and we will make bad decisions. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.000 And the democrats know that... there is a risk of making bad decisions, 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:21.000 to be... embedded by rhetoricians, ... speakers, 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:26.000 people who ... who, speaking well, will misguide us, will deceive us, 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.000 will take us into the wrong... decisions. We know that: 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.000 So there are rules to protect against demagogues. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.000 And we also know we can make mistakes. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.000 And then there are procedures to change our mind, to... 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.000 ... make other decisions later, once we realize we made a mistake, 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:50.000 we... there are procedures for that. And above all... before making a decision, 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:55.000 democrats, real democrats, who... organize direct democracy, 00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:00.000 that of Athens, not even that of Switzerland, eh, it's more... 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.000 ... more generalized, more structurally... 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.000 ... popular, a real democracy, than Switzerland, eh. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.000 Switzerland is the best we have on Earth at the moment but... 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.000 ... it's very very very flawed! 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:16.000 True democracy, therefore, as we decide our laws, 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.000 directly, without representatives - representatives do something else, they ... 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.000 ... but they don't make the laws - since we make our laws, 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.000 it is important, before making a decision, 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.000 to hear all viewpoints. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.000 Even the views we loathe. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.000 Above all, 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.000 especially the views we loathe. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.000 And there are plenty of moralists of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.000 Chinese philosophy, Japanese philosophy, 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.000 we find... aphorisms, ... proverbs, 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:57.000 in all civilizations, almost, where... sages point out that ... 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.000 ... we'd better listen to people we don't want to hear. 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.000 It would be better, it is worthwhile to listen to people we don't want to hear. 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.000 And that often... those who... 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:17.000 those who speak ill of us, those who talk bad about us... 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.000 .. are those whom we have the most to draw to progress. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:26.000 And that those who flatter us and speak well of us are those who... 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.000 ... take us to the bad roads, bad habits. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:36.000 Well, but then the democracy, by obliging us to listen publicly... 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.000 ... to people we don't want to listen, to people we hate, 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.000 people we would put in jail... 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.000 I exaggerate, but just barely. 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:49.000 Forcing us to it, it pacifies the group. 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.000 Each individual doesn't want to hear such and such he hates, 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:58.000 but the group is going to benefit from the fact that conflicts are staged 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.000 - this is an important word, that - in democracy ... 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.000 The democracy stages the conflicts. It doesn't hide them, it doesn't overshadow them, 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.000 it doesn't put them under the rug. 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:11.000 A democracy gives voice to all dissident thoughts, 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.000 in order to enlighten the decisions so that the decisions are... 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.000 ... the least bad possible. 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.000 And we don't seek perfection, we know we will make mistakes, it does not matter, 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:23.000 we will be mistaken. We try to get it right, 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.000 then if we're wrong, well we will change. 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.000 Then the elected officials representatives shall not try to persuade us that they don't make mistakes, 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.000 They make mistakes... as much as... 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:33.000 ... as we will make mistakes when... the people will decide. 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.000 - I just interrupt... couple of seconds. 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.000 Don't you believe that today, there is a direction of.. 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.000 ... there is a direction, first of all, which is made by the media? 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.000 - Yes. But there, you think of manipulation. 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.000 A direction is not necessarily a manipulation. It is not necessarily a... 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.000 ... trickery. A direction, it can be... 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.000 ... a... 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.000 ... a decoration set, a... 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:03.000 ... an emphasis that is used to show something important. 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.000 Not necessarily with an intention to lie. 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:09.000 It can be... 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:11.000 the... 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.000 the show in Athens, Greek tragedy, 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.000 was an educational tool to highlight, 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.000 In a caricatural - but at the same moment clear - way, 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.000 the values defended by democracy. 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.000 And... this is very important, it was not at all... 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.000 And I think that even today, the culture as... 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.000 ... folk art that serves to... 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.000 ... to show to children and young adults 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.000 - and even to adults - the ... values that the City acknowledges, 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.000 this art is very important. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.000 And the... the ideology of management, 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.000 our current ideology, there, the one of... merchants who can only count, 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:54.000 who only focus on that which is profitable, 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.000 only that which is profitable and... who destroy everything that is not profitable, 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.000 everything which is outside from... market logic, 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.000 these people are crazy! They are hemiplegic, they have only ... 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.000 ... half a brain, and yet... And when they destroy everything that is cultural 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:12.000 because it is not profitable, it is madness. 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.000 - What is called culture, according to you, today? 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.000 - So you must see the work of Frank Lepage, which is really exciting in this field. 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:22.000 Culture should be political, 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.000 it should be about the political education of young adults. 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.000 Our grandparents, Franck... Franck explains that, 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.000 Franck Lepage explains that... our grandparents, at the end of the war,... 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.000 ... understood - the war had been a lesson - 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:38.000 that one could be extremely cultured 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:39.000 and Nazi. 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:45.000 And so the... democracy is... to save a democracy, 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.000 to preserve a free society, it was not enough to have a cultured elite, 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.000 that... you could get cultured little rascals. 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.000 And therefore, they deduced that it was necessary to educate children... 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:59.000 not... to literature, to art but to politics. 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:02.477 Then possibly to art and literature but also... 00:09:02.477 --> 00:09:05.000 ... especially to politics, to the values of democracy. 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.538 A bit like the Greek tragedy did. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:11.000 And... 00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:18.685 He explains that Malraux and his successors depoliticized the culture, 00:09:18.685 --> 00:09:22.000 reduced - and it is a disaster - the culture in the art; 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.000 and that... depoliticizing the City, 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.000 it's political. This is very conservative 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.000 to depoliticize. 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.000 It's very interesting. So today, culture is ... it was reduced in ... 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:45.000 ... heavily in... intellectual tools that are not interesting 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:49.000 in the... in terms of social justice and resistance to... 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.000 ... the various projects of domination, the various ... various injustices. 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.000 It is no fate, it is the popular universities... 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.000 There are still many of artists who fight on the political front. 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:04.000 But ... it's difficult, it is increasingly difficult for them today, 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:09.000 because ... merchants have colonized our imagination in taking the power, 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.000 because representative government empowers merchants, 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.000 including money merchants who are the richest. 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.000 As they have power, they also have the power to suffocate... 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.000 to suffocate... true culture, 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.000 culture worth the name, which would be a political culture.