1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 -I would like to know your opinion or... what emerges from it... 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,000 ... about this small reading; that's going to be very short. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Then: "Freedom of expression is applicable not only to information or ideas 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000 that are favorably received or regarded as inoffensive or indifferent, 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,000 but also to those that offend, shock or disturb. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,000 So... So goes with pluralism, tolerance and open-mindedness 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,000 without which there is no democratic society." 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,000 This is the European Court of Human Rights who wrote that in 1976. 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,000 What does that inspire you? 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,000 - Eh, I go back in time... further, because... 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,000 ... I find this idea... in Athens, 2500 years ago. 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:46,000 The Athenians cared about the isegoria, the right to speak for everyone, about every subject, 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,000 and at any time, the right to public speech. 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,000 They cared about it more than about the isonomia, equality before the law and... 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,000 They cared about it because, in fact, it was as an hygienic measure, 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,000 a measure of protection, safeguarding democracy. 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Because when we call on everyone... 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,000 ... we... it makes the citizens sentinels. 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Every citizen can become a ... a guardian of democracy 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,000 and a whistleblower of... drifts. 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:24,000 And... the Athenians were well aware that... there were going to be... false alarms, 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000 dissident thoughts that would be... stupid or... hostile or ... 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,000 ... but it doesn't matter, it doesn't. 24 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,000 It is better... As we don't know in advance what are the thoughts 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,000 that will be useful and those that will be harmful or... inappropriate, 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,000 as no one can say in advance what are the dissident thoughts 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,000 which are going to be useful or not, 28 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,000 well then they are given... we call on everyone, they are allowed all. 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 And... 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:01,000 ... many great thinkers have... defended this freedom of expression as ... 31 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:09,000 ... a ... a base part of a free, pacified society. 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 So... So on the one hand, this freedom of expression, 33 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 it allows every citizen to become... a sentinel of democracy 34 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,000 but it is not everything; there is also the will of... 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,000 which... is in the background... which comes because a democracy ... 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:35,000 ... bets that we can, we all together, 37 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,000 gathered in an assembly, 38 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,000 not by officials but all of us directly. 39 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000 So not all, because everyone doesn't come, but anyone who wants. 40 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 In a democracy, necessarily direct... 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 ... indirect democracy is an oxymoron; democracy is mechanically 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,000 by definition, direct, direct democracy, this is a pleonasm. 43 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,000 In a direct democracy, we ... we bet that we are able 44 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,000 to make the right decisions for ourselves. 45 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,000 So of course, the oligarchs or representatives, ... elected officials... 46 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,000 ... claim that we are incompetent 47 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,000 and we will make bad decisions. 48 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,000 And the democrats know that... there is a risk of making bad decisions, 49 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,000 to be... embedded by rhetoricians, ... speakers, 50 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:26,000 people who ... who, speaking well, will misguide us, will deceive us, 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000 will take us into the wrong... decisions. We know that: 52 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,000 So there are rules to protect against demagogues. 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000 And we also know we can make mistakes. 54 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,000 And then there are procedures to change our mind, to... 55 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,000 ... make other decisions later, once we realize we made a mistake, 56 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,000 we... there are procedures for that. And above all... before making a decision, 57 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,000 democrats, real democrats, who... organize direct democracy, 58 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,000 that of Athens, not even that of Switzerland, eh, it's more... 59 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000 ... more generalized, more structurally... 60 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,000 ... popular, a real democracy, than Switzerland, eh. 61 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Switzerland is the best we have on Earth at the moment but... 62 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 ... it's very very very flawed! 63 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,000 True democracy, therefore, as we decide our laws, 64 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,000 directly, without representatives - representatives do something else, they ... 65 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,000 ... but they don't make the laws - since we make our laws, 66 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,000 it is important, before making a decision, 67 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,000 to hear all viewpoints. 68 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Even the views we loathe. 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,000 Above all, 70 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,000 especially the views we loathe. 71 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,000 And there are plenty of moralists of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,000 Chinese philosophy, Japanese philosophy, 73 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,000 we find... aphorisms, ... proverbs, 74 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:57,000 in all civilizations, almost, where... sages point out that ... 75 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,000 ... we'd better listen to people we don't want to hear. 76 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,000 It would be better, it is worthwhile to listen to people we don't want to hear. 77 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,000 And that often... those who... 78 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,000 those who speak ill of us, those who talk bad about us... 79 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,000 .. are those whom we have the most to draw to progress. 80 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:26,000 And that those who flatter us and speak well of us are those who... 81 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,000 ... take us to the bad roads, bad habits. 82 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Well, but then the democracy, by obliging us to listen publicly... 83 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,000 ... to people we don't want to listen, to people we hate, 84 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,000 people we would put in jail... 85 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,000 I exaggerate, but just barely. 86 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Forcing us to it, it pacifies the group. 87 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Each individual doesn't want to hear such and such he hates, 88 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,000 but the group is going to benefit from the fact that conflicts are staged 89 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000 - this is an important word, that - in democracy ... 90 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,000 The democracy stages the conflicts. It doesn't hide them, it doesn't overshadow them, 91 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,000 it doesn't put them under the rug. 92 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,000 A democracy gives voice to all dissident thoughts, 93 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000 in order to enlighten the decisions so that the decisions are... 94 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000 ... the least bad possible. 95 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,000 And we don't seek perfection, we know we will make mistakes, it does not matter, 96 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,000 we will be mistaken. We try to get it right, 97 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,000 then if we're wrong, well we will change. 98 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Then the elected officials representatives shall not try to persuade us that they don't make mistakes, 99 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,000 They make mistakes... as much as... 100 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,000 ... as we will make mistakes when... the people will decide. 101 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,000 - I just interrupt... couple of seconds. 102 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Don't you believe that today, there is a direction of.. 103 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000 ... there is a direction, first of all, which is made by the media? 104 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,000 - Yes. But there, you think of manipulation. 105 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,000 A direction is not necessarily a manipulation. It is not necessarily a... 106 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,000 ... trickery. A direction, it can be... 107 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000 ... a... 108 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 ... a decoration set, a... 109 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,000 ... an emphasis that is used to show something important. 110 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Not necessarily with an intention to lie. 111 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,000 It can be... 112 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,000 the... 113 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,000 the show in Athens, Greek tragedy, 114 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,000 was an educational tool to highlight, 115 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,000 In a caricatural - but at the same moment clear - way, 116 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,000 the values defended by democracy. 117 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,000 And... this is very important, it was not at all... 118 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,000 And I think that even today, the culture as... 119 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,000 ... folk art that serves to... 120 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,000 ... to show to children and young adults 121 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,000 - and even to adults - the ... values that the City acknowledges, 122 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,000 this art is very important. 123 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,000 And the... the ideology of management, 124 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,000 our current ideology, there, the one of... merchants who can only count, 125 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 who only focus on that which is profitable, 126 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,000 only that which is profitable and... who destroy everything that is not profitable, 127 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,000 everything which is outside from... market logic, 128 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,000 these people are crazy! They are hemiplegic, they have only ... 129 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,000 ... half a brain, and yet... And when they destroy everything that is cultural 130 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,000 because it is not profitable, it is madness. 131 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 - What is called culture, according to you, today? 132 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 - So you must see the work of Frank Lepage, which is really exciting in this field. 133 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 Culture should be political, 134 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000 it should be about the political education of young adults. 135 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Our grandparents, Franck... Franck explains that, 136 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Franck Lepage explains that... our grandparents, at the end of the war,... 137 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,000 ... understood - the war had been a lesson - 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,000 that one could be extremely cultured 139 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,000 and Nazi. 140 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,000 And so the... democracy is... to save a democracy, 141 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,000 to preserve a free society, it was not enough to have a cultured elite, 142 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000 that... you could get cultured little rascals. 143 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,000 And therefore, they deduced that it was necessary to educate children... 144 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,000 not... to literature, to art but to politics. 145 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,477 Then possibly to art and literature but also... 146 00:09:02,477 --> 00:09:05,000 ... especially to politics, to the values of democracy. 147 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,538 A bit like the Greek tragedy did. 148 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,000 And... 149 00:09:11,590 --> 00:09:18,685 He explains that Malraux and his successors depoliticized the culture, 150 00:09:18,685 --> 00:09:22,000 reduced - and it is a disaster - the culture in the art; 151 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,000 and that... depoliticizing the City, 152 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,000 it's political. This is very conservative 153 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,000 to depoliticize. 154 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,000 It's very interesting. So today, culture is ... it was reduced in ... 155 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,000 ... heavily in... intellectual tools that are not interesting 156 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,000 in the... in terms of social justice and resistance to... 157 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,000 ... the various projects of domination, the various ... various injustices. 158 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,000 It is no fate, it is the popular universities... 159 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000 There are still many of artists who fight on the political front. 160 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 But ... it's difficult, it is increasingly difficult for them today, 161 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,000 because ... merchants have colonized our imagination in taking the power, 162 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,000 because representative government empowers merchants, 163 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,000 including money merchants who are the richest. 164 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,000 As they have power, they also have the power to suffocate... 165 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 to suffocate... true culture, 166 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 culture worth the name, which would be a political culture.