WEBVTT

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Yes I do, Charlie, but let me tell you,

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that's the wrong question.

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[Charlie Rose] OK What's the right question?

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[Toni Morrison] How do you feel?

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Not you, Charlie Rose,

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but don't you understand

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that the people who do this thing,

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who practice racism,

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are bereft, there is something distorted about the psyche?

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It's a huge waste, and it's a corruption

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and a distortion.

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It's like it's a profound neurosis

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that nobody examines for what it is.

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It <i>feels</i> crazy.

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It <i>is</i> crazy.

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And it leaves,

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it has just as much of a deliterious effect on white people;

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and possibly equal as it does black people.

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I always knew that I had the moral high ground.

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All my life.

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I always thought those people

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who said I couldn't come in the drugstore,

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I had to sit in this funny place,

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I couldn't go in the park...

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[Charlie Rose cuts in] You felt morally superior to them from day one.

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[Toni Morrison] I did.

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And I thought they knew that I knew that they were inferior to me, morally.

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I always thought that.

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And my parents always thought that.

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[Charlie Rose] You said your your father was racist cause he always felt like he was superior...

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[Toni Mossison] That's right, he always felt superior,

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and that was a form, you know, of defensive racism.

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But if the racist white person -

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I don't mean a person who is examining his consciousness and so on

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- doesn't understand that he or she is also a race,

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it's also constructed,

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it's also made,

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and it also has some kind of serviceability,

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but when you take it away,

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like take your race away,

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and there you are all strung out,

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and all you got is your little self,

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and what is that?

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What are you without racism?

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Are ya any good?

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Are ya still strong?

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Still smart?

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You still like yourself?

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I mean, these are the questions,

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part of it is, "yes, the victim, how terrible it's been for black people..."

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I'm not a victim.

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I refuse to be one.

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[Charlie Rose] And the victim is the other person who is morally inferior...

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[Toni Morrison] That's a serious question... of course! ...

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[Charlie Rose] ...& who has to hold onto racism to somehow for his or her own self esteem & definition

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[Toni Morrison] If you can only be tall because somebody's on their knees,

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then you have a serious problem.

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And my feeling is, white people have a very very serious problem.

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And <i>they</i> should start thinking about what <i>they</i> can do about it.

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Take me out of it.

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[Charlie Rose] Then give white people some free advice.

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[Toni Morrison] They're all in my books [both laughing].

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[Charlie Rose] And the advice is... [cuts off]