1
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...on an interpersonal basis,

2
00:00:02,336 --> 00:00:05,305
institutionally? Not terribly much,

3
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because most of the lethal, toxic, deadly racism that African American people experience,

4
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and that other people of colour experience in this country,

5
00:00:15,983 --> 00:00:17,651
does not come from them.

6
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It comes from moral, fair-minded people who believe that they are lovers of justice,

7
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church goers, people who experience themselvesas decent and actually very nice folk.

8
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And it is there that I find my fear.

9
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Back to the question of what it means to be white.

10
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I think what it means to be white in part

11
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is that you have the privilege of blaming people of colour

12
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for their own victimization under white supremacy.

13
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I've heard you say that to me.

14
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I've heard you say that to him.

15
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I've heard you say that to him.

16
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I've heard you say it to him.

17
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I've heard you say it to, uh, every person of colour in the room

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who challenged your perception of yourself in the world.

19
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That is part of what it means to be white.

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[David C] Maybe that's part of the answer.

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That we feel that the field is wide open,

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and each man can stand on his own...

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[Victor] No no. Each man does not stand on his own.

24
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Some men stand on other men, and other women.

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Light skinned men, men from Europe stand on the heads and the parts

26
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of men and women and children of colour.

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That is.... and of course you also stand on the heads of white women.

28
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But no, it's not a question of every man standing on his own ground.

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All of the ground damn near of this planet has been taken

30
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from almost all of the people of colour on this planet.

31
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You know, Australia was a black continent.

32
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Africa was a black continent

33
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And if the people themselves were not taken from Africa,

34
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then everything of value was taken from Africa to the extent that that was possible.

35
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North America was a red continent.

36
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South America was a red continent.

37
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You are NOT stading on your own ground.

38
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You are standing on RED ground.

39
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And THAT's what it means to be white.

40
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To say that you're standing on your own ground and standing on somebody else's.

41
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And then mystify the whole process so it seems like you're not doing that.

42
00:02:32,245 --> 00:02:38,613
White. Why is being white such a unique thing?

43
00:02:38,613 --> 00:02:42,150
Why is it such a, an important thing?

44
00:02:42,150 --> 00:02:43,618
I've never felt that way.

45
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[Roberto]It is kind of... y'kow...

46
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[David C] Well it must be. You're telling me that being white is special.

47
00:02:48,823 --> 00:02:51,746
And I'm not feeling special.

48
00:02:51,746 --> 00:02:54,496
And I've never felt special because I was white.

49
00:02:54,496 --> 00:02:59,601
You've pointed out to me where I have racial prejudisms.

50
00:02:59,601 --> 00:03:06,241
And I've expressed that innocently, and naively, by just little questions & statement that I've made.

51
00:03:06,241 --> 00:03:12,247
Um. Yeah. Maybe I really am that way.

52
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[Gordon] I have a real difficult time talking with you about your experience.

53
00:03:20,188 --> 00:03:20,688
I can relate to their frustration.

54
00:03:20,688 --> 00:03:24,359
It just doesn't feel like anything's getting through.

55
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[Hugh] I'm working up my courage to ask you something, a request.

56
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And also there's a question with it.

57
00:03:31,967 --> 00:03:37,872
The request is for you to not give up on David, to go after him.

58
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I'm not able to get through,

59
00:03:39,941 --> 00:03:44,112
and many in the room are not able to get through.

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And we've given statistics, and we've given personal stories, and we've given histories,

61
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and we've dadadadada.

62
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We've yelled, we've screamed, we've cried, you know, it's not getting through.

63
00:03:55,390 --> 00:03:58,294
I'm sure you've met other white people that you just have said

64
00:03:58,294 --> 00:04:01,997
"bye, forget it, I'm not, I don't need to deal with you"

65
00:04:01,997 --> 00:04:03,432
you know, that kind of thing.

66
00:04:03,432 --> 00:04:07,970
I don't have the privilege of not dealing with the Davids in the world.

67
00:04:07,970 --> 00:04:12,006
So I'm askin', I'm askin' you to do that.

68
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I'm actually boldly expecting you to do that.

69
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[laughing]

70
00:04:18,246 --> 00:04:25,420
If I were standing in front of a whole room full of white people,

71
00:04:25,420 --> 00:04:30,025
I would tell them much of what I've told some of the men in this group this weekend,

72
00:04:30,025 --> 00:04:31,994
the white men in this group.

73
00:04:31,994 --> 00:04:37,032
I would tell them that it's their responsibility to go educate their white brothers & sisters.

74
00:04:37,032 --> 00:04:40,183
I would tell them it's their, that it's my expectation,

75
00:04:40,183 --> 00:04:43,304
I expect them to eliminate racism.

76
00:04:43,304 --> 00:04:49,043
I expect them to go out and intervene whenever they see racism going on.

77
00:04:49,043 --> 00:04:54,249
And I expect them to be as outraged about racism as I am outraged by racism,

78
00:04:54,249 --> 00:04:56,018
as black people are outraged,

79
00:04:56,018 --> 00:04:57,219
as Asians are outraged,

80
00:04:57,219 --> 00:04:58,720
as Indians are outraged.

81
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,322
I expect that of them,

82
00:05:00,322 --> 00:05:01,685
and that's what I would tell them.

83
00:05:01,685 --> 00:05:02,991
I would tell them what I expect,

84
00:05:02,991 --> 00:05:07,095
I'll tell them what I, I'd tell them what I never want to hear from them again.

85
00:05:07,095 --> 00:05:11,866
I never wanna hear stuff about um, how my experience is not valid,

86
00:05:11,866 --> 00:05:15,336
or why can't I just pull myself up by my bootstraps.

87
00:05:15,336 --> 00:05:17,289
Those are things that I would tell them about.

88
00:05:17,289 --> 00:05:20,964
And I'd tell them that they've gotta end it. They've gotta end it.

89
00:05:23,178 --> 00:05:30,409
This morning, I felt this ray of hope and optimism, when you shared that you get nervous

90
00:05:30,409 --> 00:05:38,134
when you would go down to San Francisco into an ethnically diverse neighbourhood,

91
00:05:38,134 --> 00:05:43,172
and that you actually got in touch with those messages,

92
00:05:43,172 --> 00:05:48,077
whether they were given to you directly, taught to you directly, or not,

93
00:05:48,077 --> 00:05:53,349
or somehow that you felt how these things just started to come over you.

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00:05:53,349 --> 00:05:55,151
[Lee Mun Wah] Why is that important to you...

95
00:05:55,151 --> 00:06:00,123
[Yutaka] Because I just sort of felt that you finally connected with some feelings,

96
00:06:00,123 --> 00:06:05,662
and getting down here, instead of being up here in the uh, frontal lobes,

97
00:06:05,662 --> 00:06:10,424
and analyzing every everything, and looking at everything rational.

98
00:06:10,424 --> 00:06:14,272
'Cause a lot of the fears or the anger, isn't rational.

99
00:06:14,503 --> 00:06:18,922
[David C] It's probably the looks that you get.

100
00:06:18,922 --> 00:06:20,376
I think that's where it comes from.

101
00:06:20,376 --> 00:06:24,313
The looks, of the individuals,

102
00:06:24,313 --> 00:06:28,451
uh, they stand on the corners and, uh, "what are you doin' here?" y'know?

103
00:06:28,451 --> 00:06:32,088
And they make me feel unwanted.

104
00:06:32,088 --> 00:06:34,858
I think that's what I feel.

105
00:06:34,858 --> 00:06:38,862
[Yutaka] Yeah.As pickup trucks do...

106
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[laughing]

107
00:06:40,096 --> 00:06:43,399
guys with, cowboy, sitting there, you pull up in the gas station...

108
00:06:45,362 --> 00:06:48,932
I know my feelings are very opposed to some of yours,

109
00:06:48,932 --> 00:06:53,703
and I don't understand why you have all this intense anger, and emotions,

110
00:06:53,703 --> 00:06:59,343
why it's so difficult for you to just be yourselves,

111
00:06:59,343 --> 00:07:02,346
and make your place.

112
00:07:02,346 --> 00:07:05,282
Wh... I think that's the big difference here.

113
00:07:05,282 --> 00:07:13,257
We white men don't have this comraderie if you want, that you coloureds have.

114
00:07:13,257 --> 00:07:19,095
We, we we have, we don't go out and organize, we don't go out and have discussions,

115
00:07:19,095 --> 00:07:22,565
we just do our stuff, whatever our stuff is, I guess.

116
00:07:22,565 --> 00:07:26,937
I see that we're living in 2 completely different consciousnesses,

117
00:07:26,937 --> 00:07:35,245
and, y'know, I think that I get yours, and that I have to be able to understand yours in order to survive.

118
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You live in a world where it's not necessary in most instances for you to understand

119
00:07:38,982 --> 00:07:41,185
my consciousness and my experience.

120
00:07:41,185 --> 00:07:45,322
It's like one of those parking garages with the spikes coming up.

121
00:07:45,322 --> 00:07:52,563
You know, you live in the world where when you drive your car past, the spikes lay down.

122
00:07:52,563 --> 00:07:56,800
And I live in the world, and the men of colour here live in the world where

123
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,816
when we come up to the spikes, man, they're facing right at us.

124
00:08:00,093 --> 00:08:02,806
The thought comes to me, Victor, you're going the wrong direction.

125
00:08:02,806 --> 00:08:05,409
If the spikes are opposing you,

126
00:08:05,409 --> 00:08:07,357
does that ever occur to you, that you're going the wrong direction?

127
00:08:07,588 --> 00:08:12,015
That's a beautiful statement to me, that I'm going the wrong direction.

128
00:08:12,015 --> 00:08:18,168
It's a marvelous illustration of the consciousness of white supremacy.

129
00:08:18,476 --> 00:08:20,288
Well, let's not say white supremacy...

130
00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:21,610
[Victor] Well, I...

131
00:08:21,610 --> 00:08:23,860
that's what I want to say...

132
00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:26,882
[David C] This is where as you speak this analogy,

133
00:08:26,882 --> 00:08:32,035
and I'm thinking to myself "golly, why does it always have to be in opposition

134
00:08:32,035 --> 00:08:34,638
to the way things are structured?"

135
00:08:34,638 --> 00:08:38,208
And I constantly sit here and think "why is he taking this direction?"

136
00:08:38,208 --> 00:08:46,550
Why don't they as a group, why don't you with your people, look for something within yourselves

137
00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:50,754
that can make you feel equal to us?

138
00:08:50,754 --> 00:08:57,260
Because what I hear is you are not equal, and I do not feel that.

139
00:08:58,829 --> 00:09:09,971
[Lee Mun Wah] So what's leeping you from believing that that's happening to Victor?

140
00:09:09,971 --> 00:09:12,474
Just believe it, not to know why that's happening to him,

141
00:09:12,474 --> 00:09:15,176
but what's keeping you from believing that that's happening...

142
00:09:15,176 --> 00:09:19,650
[David C] Because it seems like such a harsh life, and I just don't want to believe.

143
00:09:19,650 --> 00:09:24,955
I would assume, Victor, that your life is really that hard, difficult, and unpleasant,

144
00:09:24,955 --> 00:09:28,259
[Lee Mun Wah] What would it mean David then if the life really was that harsh?

145
00:09:28,259 --> 00:09:31,962
What would that mean in your life, if it really was that harsh...

146
00:09:31,962 --> 00:09:34,198
[David C] It would be a travesty of life.

147
00:09:34,198 --> 00:09:36,863
You have here something that shouldn't exist.

148
00:09:37,735 --> 00:09:41,639
[Lee Mun Wah] And so what if it does?

149
00:09:41,639 --> 00:09:43,979
What if the world were not as you thought?

150
00:09:43,979 --> 00:09:48,350
That it actually is happening to lots of human beings on this earth,

151
00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:53,845
what if it actually were, and you didn't know about it? What would that mean to you?

152
00:09:54,654 --> 00:09:58,060
Well that's very saddening.

153
00:10:00,295 --> 00:10:09,223
[voice cracking] You don't want to believe that man can be so cruel to himself or his own kind.

154
00:10:10,439 --> 00:10:14,743
I do not want to accept that it has to be that way... maybe it <i>is</i>,

155
00:10:14,743 --> 00:10:21,109
and it must be, because you express it and, the others in the group express that it is.

156
00:10:26,285 --> 00:10:28,911
From here I can work with you.

157
00:10:30,957 --> 00:10:34,160
I do not find you to be an enemy.

158
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,563
Aggressive, and frightening when you become very animated and agitated, but...

159
00:10:39,563 --> 00:10:41,601
[Victor] We spend a lot of time being nice,

160
00:10:41,601 --> 00:10:44,504
and conciliatory, and thoughtful, and careful.

161
00:10:44,504 --> 00:10:46,873
I don't want to be exciteable with you about it.

162
00:10:46,873 --> 00:10:48,712
I become excitable

163
00:10:48,712 --> 00:10:54,747
when I feel like there's no way for my humanity to get affirmed,

164
00:10:54,747 --> 00:11:00,720
if I can't say no with my whole aliveness to being mistreated or invalidated,

165
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,693
then, yeah, then I'm dead, I'm as good as dead.

166
00:11:05,124 --> 00:11:09,262
If there were some way that I could be of use and service to you, I would.

167
00:11:09,262 --> 00:11:13,641
I don't know how. I've never looked at that possibility.

168
00:11:14,701 --> 00:11:20,907
I think how you could help me is to begin to understand yourself better.

169
00:11:20,907 --> 00:11:26,145
I don't need help from you or from white folks,

170
00:11:26,145 --> 00:11:33,519
as much as I need a sense of fairness, which is lacking,

171
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:44,698
and as much as I need a sense of awareness about this invisible protection that you have,

172
00:11:44,698 --> 00:11:47,233
and this invisible privilege that you have...

173
00:11:47,233 --> 00:11:52,806
When Victor was telling you about you being asleep, not being conscious of your privilege,

174
00:11:52,806 --> 00:11:54,240
and taking it for granted,

175
00:11:54,240 --> 00:12:00,479
it was revealed to me that that is true when you referred to us as "you coloureds",

176
00:12:00,479 --> 00:12:04,450
because I find that is a very demeaning term.

177
00:12:04,450 --> 00:12:06,586
I find it alienating,

178
00:12:06,586 --> 00:12:11,858
and I've heard it in the context of referring to people of colour in a negative fashion.

179
00:12:11,858 --> 00:12:13,879
And it's painful for me to hear it.

180
00:12:14,094 --> 00:12:16,177
How would you like me to address you?

181
00:12:16,362 --> 00:12:18,631
Well, not as "you anything".

182
00:12:18,631 --> 00:12:23,891
Not "you people", not "you coloureds", not "you Asians", not "you blacks", not "you Latinos".

183
00:12:24,837 --> 00:12:25,918
[David C] You David.

184
00:12:26,072 --> 00:12:29,342
[David L] It's people of colour, or David if you want to talk about non-whites,

185
00:12:29,727 --> 00:12:32,445
I'm more comfortable with that,

186
00:12:32,445 --> 00:12:36,482
cause when you say "you", it's sort of, um, it's alienating.

187
00:12:36,482 --> 00:12:42,989
You bastards, you pigs, you lowlifes, you no-good people, you people of colour,

188
00:12:42,989 --> 00:12:44,806
that's how it feels.

189
00:12:47,193 --> 00:12:50,830
I know I have talked to black people who have said you know

190
00:12:50,830 --> 00:12:56,369
you have immigrants that come to this country and they can't speak a word of the language,

191
00:12:56,369 --> 00:12:57,803
except for one thing.

192
00:12:57,803 --> 00:12:59,372
They can all say "nigger".

193
00:12:59,695 --> 00:13:05,411
Racism between whites and people of colour isn't the only racism that exists.

194
00:13:05,411 --> 00:13:08,019
There's racism amongst people of colour.

195
00:13:09,215 --> 00:13:12,585
It was dusk, it was dark,

196
00:13:12,585 --> 00:13:15,355
this whole group of black people they're

197
00:13:15,355 --> 00:13:20,193
going home, and I had this anxiety, this tension,

198
00:13:20,193 --> 00:13:23,329
and I said why am I so, y'know, what's this big deal,

199
00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:28,467
and then I started to relax and I said these people are just going home from work.

200
00:13:28,467 --> 00:13:30,469
Just like me.

201
00:13:30,469 --> 00:13:32,071
We're all waiting at the busstop,

202
00:13:32,071 --> 00:13:40,813
and as soon as I opened my eyes and scanned, and released myself from all this fear.

203
00:13:40,813 --> 00:13:44,818
But it still comes up, I get frightened,

204
00:13:44,818 --> 00:13:47,823
you guys are powerful, you guys got a lot of power.

205
00:13:51,991 --> 00:13:57,330
Certain Asian people have reacted toward me, and that really hurt me

206
00:13:57,330 --> 00:14:02,101
because I felt they were, uh, they took their cues from white people.

207
00:14:02,101 --> 00:14:08,307
You know, like, I've walked by Asian women, and you can see them tense up.

208
00:14:08,307 --> 00:14:09,975
And that really bothered me,

209
00:14:09,975 --> 00:14:12,278
that here was somebody who is another minority,

210
00:14:12,278 --> 00:14:21,120
and yet they had all these, um, they treated me in a way that they wouldn't want to be treated.

211
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,592
It was like they were treating me like some kind of thug off the street, and I really hated that.

212
00:14:25,592 --> 00:14:30,162
At the table behind us were 2, um, young black women,

213
00:14:30,162 --> 00:14:34,200
and they're laughing and then looking over at my table where I was sitting,

214
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,702
and I heard one say "all Chinese look alike".

215
00:14:36,702 --> 00:14:38,871
I got up and I walked over to them,

216
00:14:38,871 --> 00:14:40,940
and they just wouldn't look at me,

217
00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:42,875
they kept kind of giggling not looking at me.

218
00:14:42,875 --> 00:14:46,746
And I said I heard you, I heard what you said and I disagree with that.

219
00:14:46,746 --> 00:14:49,228
Do you think all blacks look alike?

220
00:14:50,896 --> 00:14:54,220
And I came back to my car and there was a motorcycle parked in front of it,

221
00:14:54,220 --> 00:14:57,557
and I looked around, and there was a black man in a motorcycle helmet

222
00:14:57,557 --> 00:14:59,726
getting money out of the money machine.

223
00:14:59,726 --> 99:59:59,999
And I was pissed...