[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.40,0:00:11.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, how should I...?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.27,0:00:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't actually think I've ever given a talk on the history of Mozilla
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.38,0:00:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a large set of people, which is pretty shocking...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.50,0:00:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok! So...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.67,0:00:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm gonna give it a try.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.93,0:00:27.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not sure if I've actually given a talk
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.14,0:00:29.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the history of Mozilla to this many people.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.08,0:00:33.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's probably an indication that I need to do more of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.85,0:00:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mozilla's been around for a long time, since 1998.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.79,0:00:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I thought when we got started...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.09,0:00:42.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to ask:
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.39,0:00:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of the people here,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.80,0:00:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how many have been in Mozilla for three months or less?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.12,0:00:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you raise your hand?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.77,0:00:50.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok, excellent.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.89,0:00:54.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How many have been here a year or so?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.53,0:00:57.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a pretty good group too.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.54,0:00:59.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok, how about the five year?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.14,0:01:02.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pretty good and I'm gonna say the ten year.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.79,0:01:05.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How many people? Who's around, though?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.17,0:01:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.28,0:01:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's nine people in this room that have been working on Mozilla
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.28,0:01:16.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for ten years and more.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.58,0:01:19.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's probably another nine or ten people in this gathering today
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.68,0:01:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have been here that long as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.09,0:01:26.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I'm gonna explain the different roles that we had in the early days.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.87,0:01:30.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll try to name some names as we go along, I won't get all of those names,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.68,0:01:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you see this people and have questions about Mozilla or Mozilla's history,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.14,0:01:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find a good time and ask them, because we all have many memories.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.44,0:01:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Mozilla started in 1998. It came out of Netscape.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.44,0:01:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netscape at one time had been the almost monopoly browser vendor.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.75,0:01:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the first commercial browser,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.40,0:01:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we had, I don't know, 99% of the market share at one time.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.29,0:02:00.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was a pretty exciting time.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.13,0:02:03.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was when the Internet and the Web actually really exploded.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.61,0:02:07.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft appeared. They started building its own browser.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.56,0:02:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft did a couple of things that ended up eventually building a good browser.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.76,0:02:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it also engaged in a whole range of illegal activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.53,0:02:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the combination of that changed the landscape drammatically.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.30,0:02:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Netscape management had the foresight to recognise they could not continue
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.56,0:02:28.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be successful in the way they had been operating.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.07,0:02:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they realised with the help of the engineering folk set at Netscape
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.04,0:02:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the best opportunity was to convert their typical proprietary closed commercial product
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.46,0:02:44.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into an open source product.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.15,0:02:46.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was radical in its day.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.94,0:02:49.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Open source is mainstream now, but it was not then.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.56,0:02:53.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Open source was deep in the technical community,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.75,0:02:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it never surfaced in a product,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.23,0:02:56.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was all sort of odd
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.20,0:02:59.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was a very radical move.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.07,0:03:02.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second thing that happened is that the management team,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.90,0:03:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was there at the time,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.60,0:03:05.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of us were,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.66,0:03:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I was part of these discussions,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.07,0:03:12.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,realised that an open source project had to be real.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.26,0:03:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, inside Netscape there was created a small group of people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.79,0:03:23.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were charged with the job of building a successful open source project.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.89,0:03:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was a larger group of people, engineering,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.36,0:03:31.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was charged with building a successful Netscape product.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.23,0:03:34.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That Netscape product was designed to make money for Netscape
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.69,0:03:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ultimately money for AOL, after AOL bought Netscape.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.100,0:03:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in the very early days of Mozilla, through '98, '99, 2000,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.62,0:03:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had these two different groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.59,0:03:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had the engineering group, which was a 100-150 people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.06,0:03:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working on building the Netscape navigator product
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.42,0:03:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,managed by a set of people wanting to use that product to make money for AOL.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.65,0:04:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then we had the small group of people who were charged with building Mozilla
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.48,0:04:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an open source project,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.50,0:04:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building contributors from all sorts of different places
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.90,0:04:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and building a technology base that was useful for many different companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.76,0:04:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The open source side.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.79,0:04:17.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was small in name.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.34,0:04:20.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were six or eight of us.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.28,0:04:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of those, Mick was one of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.37,0:04:23.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gerv was one of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.47,0:04:24.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dan was one of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.43,0:04:25.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Brendan was one of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.31,0:04:26.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was one of them,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.45,0:04:29.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Shaver was one of them and there was a few of other folks
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.72,0:04:32.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who aren't here any longer.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.70,0:04:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was one group, then we had this very large engineering group
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.64,0:04:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building the Netscape navigator product.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.90,0:04:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in there Chofmann was there,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.91,0:04:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Johnny was there,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.23,0:04:42.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jonas was there,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.54,0:04:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dbaron was there...
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.51,0:04:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dbaron came actually a little later.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.07,0:04:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is a bunch of people here in that engineering group.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.54,0:04:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That went on for a little while
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.24,0:04:53.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it turned out to be not stable.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.81,0:04:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It turned out that the efforts of the Netscape management group
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.15,0:05:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to build the product to make money for them
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.03,0:05:05.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came into conflict with how we wanted to manage the code base
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.64,0:05:07.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a Mozilla open source project.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.06,0:05:10.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That conflict simmered for a while
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.08,0:05:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and eventually it exploded.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.62,0:05:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, please feel free to ask questions at any point.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.77,0:05:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.70,0:05:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, it turned out there are lots of ways to build a browser that makes money
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.97,0:05:31.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people don't like.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.83,0:05:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in those days, Netscape had been acquired by AOL
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.74,0:05:38.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and AOL was a website property.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.81,0:05:40.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So to that management team,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.87,0:05:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the browser was a tool to drive people to the AOL website.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.55,0:05:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can do that, but it doesn't mean you like the product.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.02,0:05:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can add user interface features to it,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.98,0:05:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can focus on new buttons and menu items
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.12,0:05:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in those cases were AOL specific,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.46,0:06:00.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can put your resources there
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.99,0:06:03.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than on security and new features,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.63,0:06:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you might not be interested in features
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.91,0:06:08.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that help people find things across the web,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.41,0:06:11.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because AOL wanted them going to AOL.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.16,0:06:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we found that there were immense conflicts
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.24,0:06:16.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also, in an open source project,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.95,0:06:22.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have contributors who have an "ownership stake",
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.50,0:06:26.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meaning that they put effort in, they are building a product,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.21,0:06:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they are using the product they have a set of needs
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.22,0:06:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might be different.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.32,0:06:32.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As part of the open source project
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.31,0:06:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we were balancing the needs of our employers, Netscape,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.20,0:06:36.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with various other people.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.99,0:06:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And eventually,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.07,0:06:43.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that broke down.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.54,0:06:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for example, we'll take user interface
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.06,0:06:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is always a contentious issue in a product.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.13,0:06:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The single most contentious issue,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.20,0:06:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way back in 1999 and 2000,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.74,0:06:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was user interface,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.91,0:06:59.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Netscape would want a user interface
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.79,0:07:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that drove people to AOL
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.56,0:07:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Mozilla wanted an interface that was good for people using the Web.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.09,0:07:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was the General Manager of the small group of people
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.06,0:07:17.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building Mozilla as an open source project.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.37,0:07:21.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In those days we called ourselves staff@mozilla.org
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.19,0:07:23.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or mozilla.org staff.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.72,0:07:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the tension exploded over the interface,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.35,0:07:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over really who controlled the code,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.62,0:07:37.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had long fights about what would the basic process is
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.26,0:07:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by which we build the product.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.02,0:07:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So things we take for granted today,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.42,0:07:45.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like you have to earn the right to be a committer,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.95,0:07:48.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we fought with Netscape over that.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.29,0:07:51.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things like code needs code review,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.50,0:07:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has to be good enough;
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.31,0:07:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that being hired as an employee
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.37,0:07:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't automatically make your code good enough;
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.06,0:08:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that even after you are hired as an employee
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.41,0:08:04.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your peers need to decide your code is good enough.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.52,0:08:08.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basic things like code review were immense fights.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.85,0:08:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was the representative of Mozilla
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.37,0:08:16.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when those tensions came to a head,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.93,0:08:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was fired.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.08,0:08:19.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.15,0:08:23.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Was Mozilla the open source browser in those days?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.66,0:08:29.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mozilla was in those days a technol..
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.75,0:08:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry, the question was "Was Mozilla the open source browser in those days?"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.71,0:08:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mozilla in those days was seen as a technology development organisation.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.77,0:08:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Netscape liked to think that it was building the browser.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.45,0:08:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.18,0:09:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did everyone hear Dan?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.30,0:09:02.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The initial theory was like the Linux kernel,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.75,0:09:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where Mozilla would be the technology development asset
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.23,0:09:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that builds the kernel
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.39,0:09:10.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other organisation would build the commercial products from it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.21,0:09:19.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had this ongoing tensions
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.75,0:09:25.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of them was Mozilla was becoming a product
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.48,0:09:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in its own right.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.19,0:09:30.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It turned out that as the Netscape and AOL management
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.39,0:09:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,began building their product to drive traffic to AOL,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.06,0:09:38.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more people started using the Mozilla version
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.24,0:09:40.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the Netscape version.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.10,0:09:43.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was going on in the background
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.22,0:09:47.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let to some of these tensions.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.86,0:09:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I was fired
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.42,0:09:52.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the belief at Netscape at the time
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.68,0:09:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that by getting rid of me,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.52,0:09:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netscape management would then have the ability
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.12,0:09:59.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to control the Mozilla open source project
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.43,0:10:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and could convert it into a set of people that helped Netscape
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.06,0:10:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,build the product that they wanted.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.28,0:10:09.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Essentially, to view the community as a free work force
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.74,0:10:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would help build the Netscape product.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.34,0:10:18.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, the competing view is that we're all building an open source project
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.67,0:10:21.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has to meet the needs of the community
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.29,0:10:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that people who contribute and build the product
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.78,0:10:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have some say in what happens to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.60,0:10:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What happened at that point was that the two groups of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.37,0:10:40.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the small group of people that had been mozilla.org staff
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.31,0:10:43.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the larger group of people which were all the engineers
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.89,0:10:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contributing to Mozilla
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.58,0:10:49.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reunited to form one shared outlook.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.94,0:10:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What happened was that essentially the engineers working at Netscape
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.54,0:10:58.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were very clear that the leadership that they were following was Mozilla.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.81,0:10:59.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was me.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.12,0:11:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was not their management.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.38,0:11:06.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, everyone involved voted to continue to try to build
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.84,0:11:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an open source project.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.03,0:11:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I remained the General Manager of Mozilla.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.99,0:11:13.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I remained the leader of the Mozilla project
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.23,0:11:17.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the spokesperson for the development of the Mozilla project,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.46,0:11:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much to the surprise of the Netscape and AOL management.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.13,0:11:24.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We learned a lot of lessons out of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.73,0:11:29.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We learned from that that leadership depends on who will follow you.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.15,0:11:32.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You need to lead people.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.73,0:11:37.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My own view is that you have to be leading in the right direction
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.97,0:11:39.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enough of the time,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.80,0:11:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that enough people follow or enough people also lead in that direction.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.28,0:11:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.46,0:11:56.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This would be... I was fired in 2001 and yes...
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.22,0:11:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.64,0:12:05.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. So that was 2001 when I was fired.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.63,0:12:09.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.78,0:12:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.94,0:12:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question was:
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.44,0:12:20.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The open web is here today it's easy to see why it's important
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.18,0:12:24.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back then in those days before the open web, how did you know?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.43,0:12:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What makes you willing to risk your job?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.14,0:12:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'd been working on a browser for a while,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.03,0:12:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we could tell that the browser was important.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.82,0:12:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was clear at that time, when Microsoft had maybe 90-95% market share
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.23,0:12:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the browser, in the operating system and in the productivity suites,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.83,0:12:48.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Office and Excel,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.40,0:12:51.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which were the only things that people used in those days.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.32,0:12:53.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it was clear
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.05,0:12:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in those days,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.89,0:12:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft controlled access to the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.53,0:13:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't call it the open web then but it was the Internet
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.92,0:13:03.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we knew it was great.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.79,0:13:08.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very clear that by controlling the browser,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.50,0:13:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft controlled how individual people experienced the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.56,0:13:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That the server side of the Internet in those days
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.35,0:13:21.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was developing, growing and becoming richer and more capable.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.85,0:13:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the client side was deteriorating
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.76,0:13:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and through that client,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.27,0:13:29.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft was able to ignore formats
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.52,0:13:35.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make vast quantities of content unavailable to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.48,0:13:38.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to determine the business model
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.31,0:13:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through which you could access content
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.86,0:13:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to have an immense influence over the entire structure of the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.51,0:13:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that much was clear.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.12,0:13:49.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It sounds melodramatic but the future of the Internet
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.43,0:13:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was already an issue at that point.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.51,0:13:56.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very clear the browser was the leverage point.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.55,0:13:59.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were very clear about our jobs.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.04,0:14:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One second, I'm gonna tell a couple of stories
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.33,0:14:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I'll get you Chris.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.80,0:14:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we were very clear that our jobs were on the line.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.74,0:14:07.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't just me.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.07,0:14:08.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was everyone I named and Marcia.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.48,0:14:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is Marcia here?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.02,0:14:11.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't see her hand go up.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.29,0:14:14.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we would have meanings as the small group that was mozilla.org
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.00,0:14:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the tensions got really high
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.20,0:14:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we would get together
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.54,0:14:20.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we would say things like
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.04,0:14:23.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What happens if AOL pulls the plug?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.48,0:14:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What happens if we're all fired tomorrow?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.20,0:14:28.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do we keep Mozilla operating?"
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.03,0:14:31.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those would be things like...
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.99,0:14:36.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our release engineer at the time
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.53,0:14:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had the keys to the server room where the Mozilla machines operated.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.89,0:14:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are small details but they were really important at the time
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.73,0:14:48.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we knew that if he could do it
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.52,0:14:51.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he would help us keep Mozilla operating
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.66,0:14:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we knew that Chofmann was running the engineering organisation
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.32,0:14:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we knew that he would be helpful as it turned out,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.76,0:14:59.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we needed him.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.40,0:15:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Marcia had the keys to the closet that was our single supply of Mozilla t-shirts.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.91,0:15:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which I bought with my own money.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.57,0:15:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, no. That was later, nevermind. The ones I bought later.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.55,0:15:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But she had that key
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.25,0:15:19.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she had access to some other things.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.49,0:15:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we would sit and think how many machines do we need,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.100,0:15:23.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how many employees do we need.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.82,0:15:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we have one employee,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.50,0:15:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is it Leef who runs the build machines?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.08,0:15:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we have one employee,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.49,0:15:30.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is it Brendan?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.66,0:15:32.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who is he?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.28,0:15:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what's the best way to keep Mozilla operating?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.90,0:15:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when it came to it I was the only one who was fired
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.26,0:15:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so the rest of the Mozilla folks were left
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.10,0:15:44.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Chofmann provided a haven
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.14,0:15:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for us to try and continue to be effective as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.17,0:15:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this was this first era.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.41,0:15:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So after I was fired there were a bunch of people still at Netscape,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.82,0:15:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working on Netscape navigator.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.83,0:16:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As part of that we finally managed to ship our first product as Mozilla.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.79,0:16:05.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mozilla 1.0 we called it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.10,0:16:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this had been a long time in coming.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.66,0:16:12.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was in 2002.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.59,0:16:17.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We started Mozilla in 1998 and expected to have a product
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.10,0:16:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very shortly afterwards.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.27,0:16:22.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it turned out, when we got into it
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.29,0:16:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the technology was pretty old.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.28,0:16:30.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Brendan made the decision to really build the new technology base.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.93,0:16:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That technology base is Gecko.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.67,0:16:37.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It cost us years to get the rendering engine to a point
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.77,0:16:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we could really build a good application on it and ship it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.96,0:16:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We finally did that in 2002.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.70,0:16:47.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was Mozilla 1.0 and it was technically a good product.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.80,0:16:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was technically a shockingly good product.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.77,0:16:54.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Across the open source space, where people knew it
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.18,0:16:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were retelling us they were really shocked
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.53,0:16:58.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to how good a product it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.53,0:17:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was not a consumer product.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.72,0:17:05.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was really built by developers, for developers.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.29,0:17:08.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It didn't have a clear designed aesthetic,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.09,0:17:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it didn't have an approach to consumers.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.76,0:17:13.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it was a very powerful product
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.69,0:17:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you couldn't figure out what was really the best user experience
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.48,0:17:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd build both and have a pref for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.83,0:17:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was known as loaded and overweight
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.50,0:17:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and technically good, but a poor product.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.63,0:17:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was 2002.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.75,0:17:31.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,About a year later,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.92,0:17:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AOL decided they were tired of investing in the browser.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.40,0:17:37.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They still had, I don't know,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.09,0:17:40.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,75 or a 150 people they were paying to work on the browser
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.99,0:17:42.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they weren't really getting anywhere with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.95,0:17:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At long last, they became interested in taking mozilla.org assets
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.49,0:17:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and giving them to those of us who'd been running the project.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.29,0:17:59.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, to give you a sense of what life was like in those days,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.81,0:18:02.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mozilla.org assets were
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.49,0:18:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the trademark, the name, mozilla.org,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.83,0:18:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,four big servers we fought for that ran all mozilla.org
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.57,0:18:20.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some seed startup money.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.26,0:18:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was really it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.40,0:18:23.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, Mick.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.92,0:18:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.77,0:18:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's definitely the timing.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.34,0:18:42.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, so that was why it may well have been.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.43,0:18:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What Mick said was
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.77,0:18:50.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"wasn't it the case that the reason AOL stopped investing in browsers
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.39,0:18:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in Gecko is that they just completed a deal with Microsoft
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.29,0:18:57.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they had agreed to use IE
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.87,0:19:02.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the Microsoft rendering engine in their browser."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.91,0:19:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.25,0:19:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, that's right. The AOL client, that I forgotten about.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.00,0:19:17.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Microsoft managed to buy AOL out of their own browser effort.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.17,0:19:20.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was good for us.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.66,0:19:23.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because that didn't seem like a lot of assets,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.08,0:19:25.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it was really critical to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.44,0:19:30.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had thought before about starting our own effort at mozilla.org
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.99,0:19:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but without the name,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.52,0:19:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would have been really hard.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.65,0:19:37.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And four giant servers doesn't seem like much today,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.91,0:19:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in that era it was a big deal.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.80,0:19:42.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also got some seed money from them,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.34,0:19:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we got 2 million dollars.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.62,0:19:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was a funny story too because
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.07,0:19:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had ended up working with Mitch Kapor,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.66,0:19:52.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know if you know, from Lotus,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.51,0:19:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those who remember Lotus 1-2-3,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.54,0:19:57.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Mitch had come to see that open source was really important,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.69,0:20:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after he left Lotus and he had his own open source organisation,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.81,0:20:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was working with him.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.68,0:20:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he really stepped in to help us.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.48,0:20:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Mozilla has a history of things appearing when we need them.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.95,0:20:14.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is that saying that is it luck,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.22,0:20:16.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or is it effort, or is it skill.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.28,0:20:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Mozilla has been blessed with all three:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.91,0:20:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immense effort, tremendous skill and this luck that things appear.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.81,0:20:29.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Mitch appeared and he essentially arm wrestled AOL
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.95,0:20:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that seed money.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.20,0:20:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We look at the 2 million dollars
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.86,0:20:37.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we thought that we could support maybe 10 people
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.11,0:20:38.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for two years.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.39,0:20:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we had set down as mozilla.org
Dialogue: 0,0:20:40.91,0:20:43.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thought that to be effective as a project,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.30,0:20:45.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the minimum number of people we needed was 10.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.99,0:20:48.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Running the machines was one person.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.26,0:20:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, we keep the project alive but we couldn't be successful.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.35,0:20:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Mitch had pitched a little bit of other money
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.16,0:20:57.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and IBM and Sun were our first commercial partners
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.37,0:21:01.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they pitched in some money and started maybe with 12 or 13 employees.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.25,0:21:02.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What that meant was:
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.34,0:21:06.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Johnny Stenback and D Baron,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.71,0:21:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was the platform team.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.09,0:21:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One person on Firefox for the front-end team,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.17,0:21:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one person on Thunderbird,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.77,0:21:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one release engineer,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.46,0:21:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Chofmann as an engineering manager,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.34,0:21:21.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mick did the ultimate sacrifice and ran our systems for us,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.35,0:21:25.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a year or two before we were able to get him back
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.59,0:21:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into a role that really fit him better,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.02,0:21:33.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had one person helping us on sustainability,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.02,0:21:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Brendan as Brendan,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.14,0:21:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and me trying to be successful.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.38,0:21:38.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.91,0:21:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that seemed like a lot to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.11,0:21:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.71,0:21:43.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's right, I forgot Asa
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.84,0:21:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How can I forget Asa?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.21,0:21:47.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.76,0:21:51.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And project management.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:52.26,0:21:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And still.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.86,0:21:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From that day till now, phenomenal.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.19,0:21:59.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whenever I have a problem with my browser, Asa is always able
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.95,0:22:01.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to figure out what it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.73,0:22:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.66,0:22:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No one else can ever do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.48,0:22:05.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.17,0:22:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of a sudden, we had our own independence.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.36,0:22:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was pretty scary,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.94,0:22:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,10 people is not really enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.94,0:22:27.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was no ongoing financial sustainability that we knew of,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.09,0:22:28.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was a gamble,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.84,0:22:32.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we had our own independence and we could make a product.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.61,0:22:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We made phenomenal changes in that period.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.46,0:22:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was our second set of phenomenal changes.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.73,0:22:45.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we were founded we made up an organisation that was revolutionary,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:45.30,0:22:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as Chofmann described.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.93,0:22:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you work with a company?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.42,0:22:49.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did we do code review?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.98,0:22:51.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did you earn your authority?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.42,0:22:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was nothing quite like it before.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.52,0:22:55.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we started the foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.73,0:22:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we remade ourselves over again.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.16,0:23:02.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were, as I said, a small number of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.32,0:23:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we made a bet on a new product that was Firefox.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.02,0:23:10.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't have a product to ship at that time.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.14,0:23:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Asa with our community involvement
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.16,0:23:15.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continued to ship the Mozilla suite
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.47,0:23:16.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for fifteen months,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.81,0:23:18.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the only product we had in the marketplace
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.61,0:23:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until Firefox was ready.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.42,0:23:23.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We made that bet, which is a scary bet.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.41,0:23:25.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Imagine not to have a browser,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.54,0:23:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean we didn't have a person working on the product we were shipping.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.53,0:23:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we did that because we knew that Firefox was our opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.83,0:23:36.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a commercial product.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.90,0:23:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our first five or six years of life taught us that technology alone
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.63,0:23:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will not change the industry the way we want to.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.06,0:23:52.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Technology alone does not change people's lives the way we want to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.12,0:23:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our opportunity with the browser is to have a product that touches people.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.82,0:23:56.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.69,0:23:57.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.98,0:24:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. So that's where I'm trying to get to.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.76,0:24:06.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That technology alone is not enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:06.95,0:24:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that raw power of technology is not enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:09.68,0:24:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if you really want to touch people,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.14,0:24:15.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not us, not power users, not developers
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.40,0:24:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you want to touch consumers
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.10,0:24:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and change their lives,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.90,0:24:23.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to be utterly committed to that.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.72,0:24:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't build the features that you want
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.90,0:24:28.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just because you want them.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.99,0:24:30.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't tell people:
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.100,0:24:33.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, you should behave this way,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.34,0:24:35.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should want to be this way."
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.35,0:24:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to build the product that is elegant
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.11,0:24:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and beautiful and powerful under the covers
Dialogue: 0,0:24:41.46,0:24:43.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that people love.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.05,0:24:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was the first thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.52,0:24:46.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is a big change.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.17,0:24:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many open source projects never make that change.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.06,0:24:52.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I started calling it the tyranny of the product.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.51,0:24:57.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you are serious about wanting to touch hundreds of millions of people
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.01,0:25:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to be committed to those hundreds of millions of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.43,0:25:02.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't just think they're stupid,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.46,0:25:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or they don't understand.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.06,0:25:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to really be committed to making their lives better.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:08.86,0:25:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's what Firefox do.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:10.99,0:25:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we didn't rewrite all these switches, and all the preferences
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.85,0:25:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way our first product had.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:22.75,0:25:28.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also made an initial experience for people they could relate to.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.23,0:25:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's our Start page.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.70,0:25:32.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before...
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.89,0:25:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:39.94,0:25:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you want to?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:42.45,0:25:47.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't have mics, and there's no mic for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.98,0:25:49.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How about... you (...)
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.96,0:25:52.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm gonna step back.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.17,0:25:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did Firefox come into being?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.28,0:25:58.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Firefox had started in a few years before, in 2001 maybe,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.85,0:26:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it became clear that the old products had a bunch of problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:05.67,0:26:09.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not only was it really built for developers and much too powerful,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.72,0:26:13.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not too powerful but not elegant
Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.07,0:26:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not beautiful on how it displayed its power.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:18.72,0:26:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was a combined browser, email client, IRC client, app launcher environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.42,0:26:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was a cause of intense fighting
Dialogue: 0,0:26:29.48,0:26:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so a small group of engineers went off
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.02,0:26:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and had an idea for doing something more elegant,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.14,0:26:39.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just a browser, that was focussed on a product
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.99,0:26:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a family would want to use.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:41.98,0:26:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there were five or six of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.40,0:26:45.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:52.75,0:26:55.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. So Dan says a couple of those guys
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.11,0:26:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were at Netscape working on the suite as their day job
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.72,0:27:02.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and during their spare time some were community members
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.71,0:27:05.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some were not engineers like Asa was involved
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.32,0:27:09.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that had been bubbling a lot for a while, and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.29,0:27:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't anywhere near done
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.10,0:27:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was both a source of a relief and some contention
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.09,0:27:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the engineers working on it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.36,0:27:22.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Was there more you wanted to say?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.70,0:27:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok. So it had been bubbling a lot and existed in a source code repository,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.63,0:27:32.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think when we formed the foundation it was 0.2 or maybe 0.3.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.84,0:27:37.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's probably a good time to tell the story of the name of Firefox.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.71,0:27:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when it was first started, the engineers thought
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.14,0:27:45.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"wow we're building a new browser out of the ashes of Mozilla 1.0"
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.30,0:27:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so it was named Phoenix.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.76,0:27:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.26,0:27:57.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For a really non-product but Mozilla/Browser when it came to have a name
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.24,0:27:58.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was Phoenix.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.03,0:28:02.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, there is a company, Phoenix Technologies,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:02.63,0:28:05.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a BIOS company, it's been around forever,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.10,0:28:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they once had a browser kind of thing
Dialogue: 0,0:28:08.44,0:28:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so the World of Trademarks contacted us
Dialogue: 0,0:28:11.70,0:28:14.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and said we couldn't use the name Phoenix
Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.06,0:28:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we looked at it and they were probably right,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.82,0:28:17.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they had a product that was pretty close.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.97,0:28:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So of course, from Phoenix, the next obvious name is Firebird.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.28,0:28:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So our browser was Firebird for one or two releases
Dialogue: 0,0:28:27.22,0:28:31.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it turns out there was, and still is,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.86,0:28:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an open source database project by the name of Firebird.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.84,0:28:37.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.61,0:28:48.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, not really legally trademark violation
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.08,0:28:50.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cos it's distinct enough
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.17,0:28:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but certainly perceived as unfriendly, awkward and difficult.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.23,0:29:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That went on for a while, and Brendan and the rest of us
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.04,0:29:02.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,posted something that said
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.93,0:29:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"OK, you're right, we're gonna change the name
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.52,0:29:09.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we'll change it before we ship our next version."
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.06,0:29:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was a problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.69,0:29:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it meant that the version was ready to ship
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.16,0:29:20.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before we had a name for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:22.39,0:29:26.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Shipping it with no name seemed like a loss of momentum,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:26.63,0:29:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Brendan had made a commitment
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.68,0:29:35.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we had a really intense emotional survival fight
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.25,0:29:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a couple of weeks, I think it was a couple of weeks,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.78,0:29:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to try to figure out what we were gonna call this thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.96,0:29:45.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The developer, Ben,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.30,0:29:49.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,liked the idea of doing something with fire in the name.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.08,0:29:53.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we went through a dictionary or a book
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.81,0:29:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking for all the words that started with fire
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.55,0:29:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might make sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.80,0:29:58.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we started going through them.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:58.62,0:30:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the side, we were doing a very professional process
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.42,0:30:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of thinking about "oh, what does the browser mean?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.08,0:30:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you develop a brand?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.37,0:30:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it navigation? Is it freedom?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.76,0:30:10.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it these kinds of words?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.59,0:30:12.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are the values you associate with it?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.99,0:30:14.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it trust or is it fun?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.55,0:30:17.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was this very professional process on the side.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.16,0:30:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the reality was the name was chosen
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.33,0:30:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when Ben had a list of words that started with fire,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:22.84,0:30:24.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we started looking at the ones we liked,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:24.100,0:30:26.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then taking the ones we liked
Dialogue: 0,0:30:26.85,0:30:29.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and looking to see which of them didn't have trademark problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:30.37,0:30:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Firefox was the one.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.98,0:30:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It turned out it had a slight trademark issue
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.19,0:30:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we were able to resolve that one.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:35.88,0:30:38.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also knew that it had a mascot,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.45,0:30:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we could have an image that would be good
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.67,0:30:43.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think it might have been Asa
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.61,0:30:45.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who first found the Chinese red panda,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.85,0:30:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there really truly is an animal called the Firefox
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.71,0:30:51.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's adorable or whatever.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.50,0:30:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there we were.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:53.15,0:30:58.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We picked the name and then were able to ship Firefox 0.8.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:58.34,0:30:59.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Seven!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.12,0:31:01.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Seven? Ok, seven.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.44,0:31:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this would be in 2004.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.66,0:31:08.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is in the spring of 2004,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:08.11,0:31:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had the foundation for seven or eight months,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.36,0:31:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're burning through our money,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.16,0:31:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're trying to figure out how we're gonna support ourselves,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:15.94,0:31:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a good size community,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.81,0:31:25.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have an office, a very funky sublet from some friends of the Mozilla project,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.93,0:31:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who when the giant .com boom had gotten a lot more office space
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.97,0:31:32.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than they needed
Dialogue: 0,0:31:32.45,0:31:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so they'd given us this little funky sublet,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.39,0:31:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is one picture of it floating around
Dialogue: 0,0:31:37.76,0:31:40.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you've seen that picture of 10 or 12 of us at a table
Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.45,0:31:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the cables hanging down in the middle of it,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.50,0:31:48.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it had no running water, you had to go back into the janitor's closet
Dialogue: 0,0:31:48.50,0:31:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the back of the building to get running water or to wash any dishes,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.16,0:31:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we bought a portable dishwasher
Dialogue: 0,0:31:55.76,0:32:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we rolled it down to the janitor's closet to wash our margarine glasses, mostly.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.50,0:32:07.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we were finally able, in the midst of all of that,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.94,0:32:09.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a name, we can ship our product.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.83,0:32:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we shipped our 0.7,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.67,0:32:16.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think it was when we got to 0.8 with Firefox
Dialogue: 0,0:32:16.85,0:32:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which it would have been on May or June of 2004,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:19.74,0:32:24.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we finally understood we had a chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:24.13,0:32:25.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like a real chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.78,0:32:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because 0.8 of Firefox was far enough along
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.01,0:32:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people started noticing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.07,0:32:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the number of people using Firefox started to grow.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.66,0:32:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pretty soon there were more people using Firefox 8
Dialogue: 0,0:32:37.36,0:32:39.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than had ever used the Mozilla suite.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.07,0:32:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Something like a million, or two or three million.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.38,0:32:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the other way that I knew that we were on the right track
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.33,0:32:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was Tim O'Reilly called us up.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:47.20,0:32:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean I know Tim forever
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.94,0:32:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I've been in the open source world for a number of years
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.83,0:32:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but this time he called up to say
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.16,0:32:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hey, we're hearing a lot about Firefox.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.61,0:32:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can we come down and talk to you?"
Dialogue: 0,0:32:56.63,0:33:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tim O'Reilly's greater skill is he has a phenomenal nose for what's new,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:01.14,0:33:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's coming and what technology is gonna be interesting.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.24,0:33:06.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there were a lot of clues.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:06.80,0:33:11.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, the summer of 2004 was a long summer.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.22,0:33:15.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because in between 0.9 and 1.0 was five or six months,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.17,0:33:17.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's when the extension system was built
Dialogue: 0,0:33:18.53,0:33:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think I've been the most nervous I've ever been in that phase.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:23.65,0:33:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I remember speaking and I could not...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:27.43,0:33:30.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was on a panel but I walked across the stage constantly,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:30.21,0:33:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was sick to my stomach
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.73,0:33:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we knew this was our big bet,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:33.98,0:33:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we could see the stuff was happening
Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.85,0:33:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there was that pressure that you have to ship the product.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.18,0:33:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the final phases of Firefox,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:41.58,0:33:43.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting the first version out,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.31,0:33:46.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were the start page and we...
Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.60,0:33:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before Firefox the start page had been a typical open source project:
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.22,0:33:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hi! Wanna help? Here is Bugzilla.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.86,0:33:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't like Bugzilla? Here's Despot.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.58,0:34:00.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't like that? Here's the link for Tinderbox."
Dialogue: 0,0:34:01.56,0:34:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when we made the commitment to ship a consumer product
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.36,0:34:10.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we realised that doesn't help most people.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.27,0:34:12.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.32,0:34:20.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unlike Bugzilla, which is smooth and lovely...
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.100,0:34:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That shows you our standards, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.21,0:34:34.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this was again an immense emotional intense, like knocked-down drag-out fight.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.02,0:34:36.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What to do? How much commercial relationship do we have?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:36.98,0:34:41.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the point of maintaining our values
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.89,0:34:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and doing things in a way that represents our values
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.14,0:34:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be where people are.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.59,0:34:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's often no easy answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.94,0:34:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the past we had voted we will go where people are.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.27,0:34:55.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we have impact.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:55.80,0:34:57.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We could be an open source project.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.46,0:35:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were a very successful open source project in 1999
Dialogue: 0,0:35:01.56,0:35:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we had thousands of people already contributing to Mozilla.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.48,0:35:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were irrelevant to the marketplace.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.34,0:35:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were irrelevant to consumers' lives
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.80,0:35:12.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and irrelevant to citizen's lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.83,0:35:15.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we changed that with Firefox
Dialogue: 0,0:35:15.05,0:35:19.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by consciously deciding to go where people are.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.68,0:35:23.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We even did a commercial relationship with Google and Yahoo,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:24.82,0:35:27.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which of course turned out after the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:35:27.96,0:35:30.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be what sustains us going forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.49,0:35:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we did those commercial relationships
Dialogue: 0,0:35:32.96,0:35:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we wanted their searchs and we thought that they would be good.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.30,0:35:40.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, after the fact, it turns out they generated the money
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.09,0:35:41.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allows us to grow.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.73,0:35:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So sustainability is also an important piece.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.14,0:35:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you build those relationships
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.59,0:35:50.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a way that have Mozilla values in them?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.45,0:35:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've done that before and we'll continue to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.39,0:35:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now I'm trying to think about...
Dialogue: 0,0:35:56.24,0:35:58.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do we wanna have questions?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.37,0:36:01.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Has everybody asked the questions they have?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.16,0:36:04.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can keep talking or we can go on to questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.98,0:36:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do wanna close at the end, but go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.69,0:36:08.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.40,0:36:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we knew that... so we shipped Firefox 4...
Dialogue: 0,0:36:31.90,0:36:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Firefox 1,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.18,0:36:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in November 2004
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.92,0:36:45.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we had a goal of, I don't know, 10 million downloads in 30 days,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:46.13,0:36:48.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we past in 10 days.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.28,0:36:54.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we knew by December that the amount of money we would be getting
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.04,0:36:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was beyond our expectations.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.63,0:36:59.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't know how far it would go.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:59.66,0:37:03.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had been hoping to be able to generate enough revenue
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.71,0:37:06.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to sustain those 10 people, or 12 people.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:06.84,0:37:10.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the time, we didn't even know how to sustain those.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.51,0:37:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By January 1st, we knew that we would be able to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.28,0:37:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The response to Firefox 1
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.17,0:37:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was sort of the stuff of dreams.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.31,0:37:24.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, it turns out, those were also stressful times.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:24.43,0:37:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What happened?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.79,0:37:27.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We shipped Firefox 1 by February or March,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.54,0:37:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a security issue
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.26,0:37:33.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we didn't actually know how to fix right away.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.08,0:37:35.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like a lot of times when a security issue is reported
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.12,0:37:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it turns out that figuring out the problem is the hard part
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.65,0:37:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fixing it is the easier part.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.13,0:37:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this was one, it was a class of vulnerability
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.04,0:37:46.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that someone, somewhere, is this the guy in Japan?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.98,0:37:51.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think someone had figured out a new way of attacking products.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:51.02,0:37:58.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had this immense focus, attention and user base growing
Dialogue: 0,0:37:58.22,0:38:02.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this phenomenally difficult product to try and deal with it,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:02.04,0:38:03.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really giant.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.51,0:38:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, someday if you see Johnny Stenback and you wanna know
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.32,0:38:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what immense pressure is really like
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.14,0:38:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask him about that period,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:11.33,0:38:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the one that... 0.5 and 1.0.6...
Dialogue: 0,0:38:14.29,0:38:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So success has its own issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.18,0:38:19.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was one of things that we learned.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.50,0:38:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That it is phenomenal to be at the centre
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.12,0:38:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so we experienced that with Mozilla today,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.74,0:38:29.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that success is phenomenal but it brings its own stresses and tensions,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.06,0:38:32.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you're not careful and you just focus on the stress,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:32.49,0:38:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's easy to forget that is the sign of success.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.59,0:38:41.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The sign of success in that era was that we had this product,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.23,0:38:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like it was critical to fix this problem right away.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.90,0:38:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you don't know how to do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.66,0:38:49.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody's looking at you,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:49.26,0:38:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you really have to be more than you thought you could be.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.20,0:38:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's immensely stressful, that's success.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:55.91,0:38:58.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you find yourself in those settings today,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:58.69,0:39:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course try to step back, take a deep breath,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.13,0:39:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be healthy, get some exercise, do all of those things
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.73,0:39:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but remember that that level of stress and tension
Dialogue: 0,0:39:07.88,0:39:10.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reflects the importance that we have,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.42,0:39:12.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how critical we are to people's lives
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.92,0:39:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and is a measure of success.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.08,0:39:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not the best measure, there's more fun measures
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.31,0:39:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when you're in the middle of those settings
Dialogue: 0,0:39:20.39,0:39:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is important to remember that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.18,0:39:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we didn't matter then that stress isn't gonna be the same.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.74,0:39:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:26.25,0:39:27.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Question]
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.15,0:39:32.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.61,0:39:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we started as a foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.67,0:39:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was never any question about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.57,0:39:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AOL knew that would be the case,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:39.32,0:39:41.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of us who wanted to work for it knew it would be the case.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.88,0:39:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we set it up that way,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.18,0:39:48.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then, as in December of 2004,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.81,0:39:52.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,became clear that we were gonna get significant amounts of money.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:52.45,0:39:56.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think December was probably a 3 million dollar check,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.41,0:39:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I remember, something like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.84,0:40:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had (...) that much in a year and suddenly we had it in a month.