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Dialogue: 0,0:00:01.98,0:00:03.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi I'm Jeremy Allison
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.93,0:00:06.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Google's Open Source Program Office
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.71,0:00:08.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm here at the Free Software Foundation's
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.85,0:00:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LibrePlanet conference here in Boston.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.19,0:00:15.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm very lucky to be here with Karen Sandler
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.66,0:00:18.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is the Executive Director of the GNOME Foundation.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.95,0:00:20.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome Karen.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.01,0:00:22.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks Jeremy. [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.48,0:00:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Karen originally was a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.74,0:00:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Software Freedom Law Center
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.32,0:00:30.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then moved over to being the Executive Director
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.92,0:00:32.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the GNOME Foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.13,0:00:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking over from Stormy Peters
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.98,0:00:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I interviewed a few years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.26,0:00:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Karen, could you tell us
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.53,0:00:39.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit more about the GNOME Foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.61,0:00:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what it is that you do for
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.88,0:00:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Free Software?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.23,0:00:44.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure, and actually I am still a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.42,0:00:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you made it sound like I was a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.42,0:00:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and maybe people would like me better
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.52,0:00:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I weren't still a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.07,0:00:52.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I am.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.67,0:00:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually the legal work that I do now
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.50,0:00:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is almost entirely pro bono work
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.70,0:00:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Software Freedom Law Center still
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.93,0:00:59.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even though I no longer work there
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.36,0:01:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also for Conservancy
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.39,0:01:03.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also for QuestionCopyright.org
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.41,0:01:06.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've also just recently have become
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.18,0:01:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an advisor of the Ada Initiative
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.40,0:01:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I'm really excited about.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.73,0:01:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you asked about the GNOME Foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.24,0:01:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I'm the Executive Director of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.10,0:01:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm the luckiest lawyer in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.99,0:01:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have that job. [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.26,0:01:20.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What exactly do you want to know about it?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.92,0:01:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You asked a good question and I got distracted
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.63,0:01:25.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by talking about my legal background.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.30,0:01:27.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, so, for people who may not know
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.39,0:01:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GNOME is a Free Software desktop for, um,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.16,0:01:37.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it shipped on most Linux distributions as the default desktop
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.47,0:01:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or as I am at the LibrePlanet conference
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.57,0:01:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laugh]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.32,0:01:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perhaps I should say GNU/Linux distributions.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.23,0:01:45.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— as the default desktop, and
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.73,0:01:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's, if people are used to it
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.91,0:01:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's the visual interface that you would see if you're using the desktop
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.66,0:01:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it's what drives the windows
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.32,0:01:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the mouse etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.23,0:01:56.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the visual look of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.99,0:02:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what makes GNOME different from other desktop software?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.87,0:02:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, and I'd also add that GNOME is also the backbone of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.74,0:02:08.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quite of number of GNU/Linux distributions.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.21,0:02:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a lot of GNOME in Ubuntu and also Linux Mint
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.88,0:02:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the OpenSuSE distribution
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.16,0:02:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has GNOME 3 as a default.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.58,0:02:20.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't forget Fedora!
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.41,0:02:22.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Fedora has GNOME —
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.39,0:02:23.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yeah, well I mean I'm going through it —
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.82,0:02:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also — so Fedora and also
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.94,0:02:29.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Debian uses GNOME 3 as default as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.89,0:02:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it is actually ah pretty well deployed.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.41,0:02:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What makes GNOME different
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.44,0:02:36.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from other desktops, you ask,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.71,0:02:40.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, well, it's just so pretty!
Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.31,0:02:42.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when I was sitting there as a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.41,0:02:43.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Software Freedom Law Center
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.95,0:02:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and GNOME 3 came out
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.12,0:02:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was astounded.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.72,0:02:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hadn't really thought too much about
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.75,0:02:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the step before except to be frustrated
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.38,0:02:57.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it was hard to explain to non-GNU/Linux users
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.87,0:02:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why I cared so much that
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.33,0:03:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was using kind of an uglier desktop
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.30,0:03:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or you know I used my old computer
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.80,0:03:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and why freedom mattered so much.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.49,0:03:09.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I saw GNOME 3 I was bowled over.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.05,0:03:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was so sleek and pretty and beautiful
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.66,0:03:14.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I felt like it was exactly the thing
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.63,0:03:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we need to bridge the gap to new users
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.58,0:03:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to users who are just coming into this space.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.10,0:03:24.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, through my medical devices advocacy
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.03,0:03:26.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— and we may talk about that after, I'm not sure —
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.34,0:03:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I come across a lot of people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.74,0:03:30.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are Mac users
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.55,0:03:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people who don't really know too much about
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.32,0:03:34.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Free and Open Source Software
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.82,0:03:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the biggest complaint that they have
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.59,0:03:38.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they start looking into it
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.09,0:03:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it's so difficult to use.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.92,0:03:44.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so what GNOME, and GNOME 3 in particular, has
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.67,0:03:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it's just so easy and so beautiful.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.91,0:03:50.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm really proud to be affiliated with it
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.97,0:03:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that it's a great strategy.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.91,0:03:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we're about to release GNOME 3.4
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.46,0:03:56.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably by the time this is posted
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.38,0:03:58.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,3.4 will probably be out, since it's just coming out on Wednesday
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.59,0:04:00.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there are a lot of amazing improvements
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.23,0:04:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are coming in with 3.4.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.48,0:04:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's only going to get better from there.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.48,0:04:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I believe the GNOME 3 slogan is
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.21,0:04:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'made of easy'
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.18,0:04:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought it was made of software.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.67,0:04:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So one of the most popular GNU/Linux distributions,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.06,0:04:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or Linux distributions, is Ubuntu.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.42,0:04:24.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Ubuntu has chosen to use its own separate interface
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.62,0:04:30.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called Unity rather than sticking with the GNOME 3 shell.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.43,0:04:34.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what was the— what's behind that?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.59,0:04:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And is there a chance that Unity can be unified
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.20,0:04:41.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as it were? With the GNOME desktop?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.100,0:04:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's a great question
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.13,0:04:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't mean to turn the tables too much here
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.60,0:04:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but a lot of the decision to go to Unity
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.69,0:04:53.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happened before I became Executive Director of GNOME.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.59,0:04:55.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've only been Executive Director of GNOME
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.17,0:04:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for seven or eight months now and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.77,0:04:59.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you I believe were an advisory board representative
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.49,0:05:00.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during that time.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.79,0:05:02.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.19,0:05:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.48,0:05:06.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what I guess what is going on in the GNU/Linux space
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.73,0:05:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that we're realising just what I said before
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.58,0:05:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is just that we have a real challenge
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.93,0:05:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reach new users and to reach unsophisticated —
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.72,0:05:15.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,er, I think saying 'unsophisticated'
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.43,0:05:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's really talking down to these users.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.83,0:05:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't mean it like that, I mean non-power users.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.24,0:05:22.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not — you know, users that aren't developers
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.81,0:05:26.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sort of understanding the fact that if Free Software is going to be successful
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.82,0:05:29.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have to reach a much wider audience.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.10,0:05:32.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's also what Canonical is trying to do with Unity.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.43,0:05:34.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so both of these efforts are actually
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.91,0:05:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building on the same technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.56,0:05:40.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Canonical is still very active in the GNOME community.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.25,0:05:42.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're still a member of our advisory board and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.16,0:05:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll see that the GNOME 3.2 press release
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.86,0:05:46.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had a quote from Canonical on it as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.60,0:05:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's a lot of work being done together,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.69,0:05:51.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's a lot of you know a lot of sharing
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.11,0:05:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a lot of combined efforts
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.89,0:05:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I think is really good.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.11,0:05:55.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And at the end of the day
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.68,0:05:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are two different competing desktop experiences
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.20,0:06:01.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that share a lot of technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.26,0:06:06.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are actually three different competing desktops.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.02,0:06:07.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well there's more than that!
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.34,0:06:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well this is true, but the other popular one is KDE
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.75,0:06:12.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I believe these days just stands for
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.52,0:06:14.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the K Desktop Environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.42,0:06:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there a chance do you guys work together with
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.72,0:06:20.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other Linux desktop which is KDE
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.78,0:06:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and do you colloborate on technology?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.11,0:06:25.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well actually I would think that if we're going to
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.81,0:06:28.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk about the main desktop environments
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.35,0:06:31.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we if I mean we talk about GNOME
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.31,0:06:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we talk about Unity
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.11,0:06:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we should also talk about Linux Mint
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.66,0:06:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is built on GNOME 3 technologies
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.58,0:06:39.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but is a distinctive environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.66,0:06:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then there are a whole other, a whole other host
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.09,0:06:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of desktops that people like because
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.60,0:06:47.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're tailored to their particular needs.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.68,0:06:50.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's great. That's one of the benefits of Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.12,0:06:52.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that we can take the technology that people make
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.58,0:06:55.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and refine it and make it into something that we want.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.79,0:07:01.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KDE actually pre-dates GNOME as a project.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.43,0:07:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a licensing problem when
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.80,0:07:05.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KDE was originally launched about 15 years ago
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.68,0:07:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and after about six months the — Miguel de Icaza
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.75,0:07:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Federico and other early GNOME developers
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.24,0:07:15.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decided that they wanted to fix that licensing problem
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.100,0:07:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make a truly free desktop.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.59,0:07:20.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so two ultimately free desktops were born
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.22,0:07:21.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they've been competing ever since.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.92,0:07:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do work with KDE quite a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.44,0:07:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've had a couple of desktop summits,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.00,0:07:26.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we do some hackfests together.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.69,0:07:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're trying to increase areas of collaboration
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.41,0:07:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereever we can.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.97,0:07:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So um here's an interesting thing:
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.54,0:07:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the desktop, the Linux desktop, is getting really pretty,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.40,0:07:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very easy to use, and yet
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.86,0:07:44.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the plane I was flying out here
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.02,0:07:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went to the bathroom and looked around.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.67,0:07:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was one old guy using a laptop,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.90,0:07:54.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,myself, who also had a laptop which I wasn't using,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.07,0:07:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,another old guy who was using a laptop.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.23,0:08:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every other person using a computer on that plane
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.90,0:08:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was using a tablet PC, mainly an iPad.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.02,0:08:08.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is GNOME doing to address the complete change
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.59,0:08:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in computing that appears to be taking place
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.51,0:08:14.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that desktop computing is for old people
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.02,0:08:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everyone else uses tablets?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.85,0:08:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a really good question.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.79,0:08:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would actually say that a few years ago
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.94,0:08:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you looked around on a plane,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.40,0:08:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not that many people had laptops.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.69,0:08:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some people had laptops but not that many.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.56,0:08:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that largely, and this is actually just
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.30,0:08:31.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sort of stepping away from talking on behalf of GNOME here
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.56,0:08:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just saying that as an observer of technology in our society
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.18,0:08:38.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I think what a lot of these tablet devices are doing
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.02,0:08:40.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are replacing a niche that we haven't had before.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.50,0:08:42.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think that people are doing things with those
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.65,0:08:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with tablet computers that are not necessarily
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.23,0:08:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,replacing laptops but they're sort of you know
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.30,0:08:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,addressing a whole new need
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.65,0:08:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that phones were sort of starting to get at
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.65,0:08:57.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but weren't quite, so I think that that makes it a little more complicated.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.63,0:09:00.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do think that are— that technology is changing
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.34,0:09:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the way that we think about it is changing.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.33,0:09:04.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the number of people who expect access
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.43,0:09:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to it have changed.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.62,0:09:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is why you know all of these pushes
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.54,0:09:11.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the GNU/Linux environments to make all of our interfaces
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.35,0:09:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very easy to use are coming from.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.18,0:09:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we perceive the fact that people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.60,0:09:18.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and again my mother hates it when I talk about her
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.53,0:09:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but five years ago she would have never used
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.24,0:09:22.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a computer for anything!
Dialogue: 0,0:09:22.95,0:09:24.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I kept, every year I would try to do something
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.96,0:09:26.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Mom, let's put our recipes in, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.77,0:09:28.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's share information, you know!"
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.29,0:09:30.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.14,0:09:32.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, she does everything.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.79,0:09:35.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, it's just, basically technology has gotten to a point
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.09,0:09:37.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her friends are started using it, everybody's started using it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.43,0:09:40.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She, you know, so people who didn't use computers before
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.26,0:09:41.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are using them and that means there's a whole
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.85,0:09:44.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different kind of computer usage
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.55,0:09:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's being represented in these tablets.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.03,0:09:49.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's still early days for GNOME 3.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.07,0:09:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basically we have gone and rebuilt GNOME as GNOME 3
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.90,0:09:55.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and created this awesome beautiful desktop environment
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.47,0:09:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we'll have to see where it goes from here.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.27,0:10:00.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I know there are efforts to bring it on to tablets.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.61,0:10:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are efforts to bring it on to mobile space.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.85,0:10:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And hopefully we'll make sure they get somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.46,0:10:06.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it takes time.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.94,0:10:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Free Software unfortunately sometimes
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.68,0:10:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of its very nature
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.86,0:10:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're community development
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.49,0:10:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because often they're non-profit driven
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.38,0:10:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,takes a little longer sometimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.84,0:10:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I hope we'll get there.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.09,0:10:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So your talk today was actually about
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.36,0:10:22.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accessibility on the GNOME 3 desktop.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.40,0:10:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could you describe for able-bodied viewers
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.84,0:10:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what accessibility on a desktop means?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.49,0:10:33.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah well as somebody pointed out in the question section of the talk
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.41,0:10:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accessibility means a lot of things
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.52,0:10:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it means a lot of different things
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.70,0:10:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a lot of different people.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.62,0:10:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Accessibility to me means that people can use
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.21,0:10:44.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,computers regardless of disability.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.29,0:10:47.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in the GNOME world or the things that GNOME is
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.70,0:10:50.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most focused on, are visual impairments.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.78,0:10:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, and that's partly for historical reasons
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.36,0:10:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we have a lot of effort in trying to get the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.80,0:11:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,desktop much more usable by visually impaired users.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.97,0:11:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would say that that's a very large portion
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.12,0:11:06.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the accessibility efforts that we do.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.50,0:11:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we do other efforts as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.24,0:11:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually we have a testimonial on our website now
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.78,0:11:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we've launched an accessibility campaign
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.93,0:11:15.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with GNOME where we want to make
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.36,0:11:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2012 the year of accessibility at GNOME
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.58,0:11:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you can donate on the GNOME website
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.94,0:11:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and give to our campaign.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.46,0:11:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But along with the campaign to explain it to people
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.52,0:11:27.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've launched these testimonials
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.14,0:11:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from people who are, who you know have disabilities
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.58,0:11:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are using GNOME for every day.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.75,0:11:34.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of those is a person with visual impairment
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.60,0:11:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who uses GNOME to you know
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.32,0:11:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically to use a computer and make a living
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.33,0:11:40.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but — as a developer —
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.94,0:11:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we also have somebody who I think
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.63,0:11:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I should have looked this up before today
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.84,0:11:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think he has cystic fibrosis and he's severely disabled
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.28,0:11:52.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he's just thrilled that GNOME 3 makes it possible
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.74,0:11:55.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for him to use a computer at all by himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.42,0:11:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So with GNOME 3 he can, he says he can,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.30,0:12:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know he can search on the Internet
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.49,0:12:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for music videos and talk with his friends.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.32,0:12:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he never thought that he'd be able to do that by himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.44,0:12:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So accessibility means a lot of things.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.52,0:12:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For us it means you know we will, we definitely
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.89,0:12:14.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to push forward making our desktop usable by everybody
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.17,0:12:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partcularly people with particular disabilities like blindness.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.31,0:12:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the other thing that you're very interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.45,0:12:25.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is women in computing
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.69,0:12:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I believe that’s the Ada Initiative
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.37,0:12:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you’re associated with.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.98,0:12:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could you tell our viewers
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.10,0:12:32.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little more about that?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.95,0:12:33.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah I’d love to and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.81,0:12:35.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s actually two things
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.25,0:12:36.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think one led me
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.65,0:12:38.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the other. The first one is
Dialogue: 0,0:12:38.18,0:12:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the GNOME Outreach Program
Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.68,0:12:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Women and Google is a sponsor
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.68,0:12:43.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the program and we’re so
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.60,0:12:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grateful that Google sponsors interns
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.28,0:12:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our community
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.10,0:12:49.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because what our program does
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.20,0:12:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is we specifically invite women
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.31,0:12:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to apply and take on —
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.98,0:12:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s inspired by Google Summer of Code actually
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.64,0:12:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— and it encourages them to come into projects.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.63,0:13:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don’t need to be [into?]
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.35,0:13:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,development although many of them are
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.68,0:13:02.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have marketing interns,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.95,0:13:07.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,design interns, you know, documentation interns.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.23,0:13:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what these women do
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.32,0:13:09.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that they come in,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.18,0:13:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in order to apply
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.05,0:13:11.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you must have made contributions already
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.68,0:13:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the project so basically
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.38,0:13:15.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it specifically invites women to come
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.91,0:13:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and participate in our community
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.91,0:13:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tells them how to get started.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.92,0:13:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in order to even submit the application
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.84,0:13:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to make contacts with people,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.40,0:13:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk to them, figure out, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.28,0:13:27.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the needs are in the project
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.04,0:13:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make a real fix.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.37,0:13:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the program’s been really successful
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.51,0:13:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what we’ve done is basically systematically addressed
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.71,0:13:36.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of those reasons why
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.05,0:13:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we think women are excluded
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.62,0:13:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or have traditionally not been present in the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.34,0:13:40.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Free and Open Source Software community.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.85,0:13:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And at GNOME it’s been tremendously successful:
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.99,0:13:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a very high percentage of the women
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.60,0:13:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that participate in our programs
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.75,0:13:48.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stay in our community.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.33,0:13:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, there’s a number that —
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.83,0:13:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it’s something like
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.86,0:13:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,40% of the women who participated in, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.38,0:13:56.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two rounds ago
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.69,0:13:58.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the round before that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.16,0:13:59.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— not only stayed in our community
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.51,0:14:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but were active in outreach.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.89,0:14:02.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they were mentors,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.79,0:14:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were speaking
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.09,0:14:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on behalf of GNOME to get more people involved
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.69,0:14:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they had such a good experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.39,0:14:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it’s this kind of thing and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.54,0:14:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the GNOME community has changed so much since I first became involved in it
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.24,0:14:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many years ago where now I go to a conference
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.48,0:14:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are women there.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.80,0:14:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not only that, there’s a supportive community
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.16,0:14:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where, you know, sometimes when
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.75,0:14:21.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a bad day
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.53,0:14:24.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I posted a blog recently where I had spoken
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.19,0:14:26.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a panel at South by Southwest [SXSW]
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.01,0:14:30.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my discussion was so intellectual and high level
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.76,0:14:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— but I posted a photo of me
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.70,0:14:34.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the other three panelists and
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.69,0:14:38.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody commented on a specific part of my anatomy
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.58,0:14:39.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.85,0:14:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it shocked me and I remembered —
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.92,0:14:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is gross.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.18,0:14:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Oh! That is why I don’t post photos of myself generally!”
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.06,0:14:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was like
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.19,0:14:51.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“I’m already a seasoned member of our community,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.41,0:14:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one bad comment isn’t going to turn me away.”
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.02,0:14:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But five years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.21,0:14:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I maybe would have just gone away.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.68,0:14:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I knew that I could go to the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.29,0:15:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,women’s outreach forum on the GNOME server
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.20,0:15:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I — you know, on the IRC channel —
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.79,0:15:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we all talked about it and
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.89,0:15:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three other people said
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.48,0:15:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“I had that happen to me last week”
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.52,0:15:10.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it’s unfortunate that it’s so common
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.52,0:15:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we’ve created infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.18,0:15:13.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we’ve created ways that we can talk about it
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.74,0:15:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allows women to cope and understand
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.14,0:15:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that our community is more valuable and
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.22,0:15:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just represented by the few bad actors.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.48,0:15:24.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the GNOME Outreach Program which is the fantastic
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.18,0:15:28.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Marina who is actually at Red Hat
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.19,0:15:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she does this and she’s amazing,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.29,0:15:32.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she’s the one who spearheads this effort,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.39,0:15:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s incredible.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.12,0:15:33.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You’re laughing?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.93,0:15:36.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, I’ve actually interviewed Marina,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.09,0:15:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if people want to look back
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.63,0:15:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can find an interview with her
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.84,0:15:41.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on exactly this topic.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.34,0:15:43.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh OK, so I’ll skip to the Ada Initiative.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.90,0:15:44.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.87,0:15:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is — so I’ve just become an advisor
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.62,0:15:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to that because I went to a conference
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.59,0:15:51.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Melbourne when I was there for Linux Conf Australia
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.98,0:15:54.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They had this — it’s called AdaCamp
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.82,0:15:56.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was astounded by
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.36,0:15:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how many articulate amazing interesting women
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.28,0:16:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were who had so much more
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.20,0:16:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information about women in technology
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.76,0:16:04.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than I ever had.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.01,0:16:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I’ve been interviewed as a woman in Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.95,0:16:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the past and [laughs] —
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.45,0:16:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,following the old axiom that
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.67,0:16:11.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to be an expert
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.62,0:16:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about women in Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.64,0:16:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you just had to be one.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.94,0:16:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.58,0:16:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.12,0:16:19.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they — but these women had statistics
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.19,0:16:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they had real knowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.65,0:16:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they had amazing recommendations of things that
Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.05,0:16:27.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Free Software projects and software companies
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.48,0:16:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can do to make sure that
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.53,0:16:33.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they’re actually encouraging women to participate.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.60,0:16:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that’s why I decided to affiliate with them,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.91,0:16:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to support them.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.61,0:16:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Their work is incredible.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.57,0:16:39.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They’ve helped create
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.07,0:16:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,codes of conduct for conferences,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.89,0:16:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they’ve helped deal with problems as they arise,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.78,0:16:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they’ve helped draw attention to the issue
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.37,0:16:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the field, so it’s great,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.15,0:16:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Ada Initiative.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.26,0:16:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That’s really good,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.19,0:16:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that’s the search term if
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.60,0:16:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people want to find out more about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.41,0:16:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we could do with
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.88,0:16:56.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more women in engineering,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.48,0:16:58.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in the Free Software communities.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.99,0:17:01.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the other interesting thing that
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.29,0:17:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you deal with is you have a very interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.69,0:17:06.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perspective on Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.63,0:17:08.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as it relates to medical devices,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.93,0:17:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why that's really important.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.87,0:17:12.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't want you to go into any specific details
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.70,0:17:15.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but maybe you could explain to our viewers
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.24,0:17:18.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit about how important that is.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.44,0:17:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I don't know how to explain it
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.69,0:17:21.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without at least getting into
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.79,0:17:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the specific story of me
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.40,0:17:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'll make it really short
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.95,0:17:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's that I have a heart condition
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.79,0:17:32.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a very big heart
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.79,0:17:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm fine, I have no symptoms
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.71,0:17:36.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I am at a very high risk of suddenly dying.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:36.79,0:17:37.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was already a lawyer
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.89,0:17:39.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Software Freedom Law Center
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.69,0:17:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I was told that I needed
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.22,0:17:42.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a pacemaker/defibrillator
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.38,0:17:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so — and I'd been a programmer back in college
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.76,0:17:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— so my first question was
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.87,0:17:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, what is the software on the device?"
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.78,0:17:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the doctor not only had no answer for me
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.19,0:17:54.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he'd never thought about that question before.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.15,0:17:56.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The medical device rep came in
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.38,0:17:57.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who happened to be there that day
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.69,0:17:59.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had also never thought about that question
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.38,0:18:00.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and had no answer.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.54,0:18:06.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I began this big discovery that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.45,0:18:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a long story short
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.44,0:18:09.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brought me to the realisation that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.72,0:18:11.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually the Food and Drug Administration
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.97,0:18:13.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not reviewing
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.20,0:18:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the source code on these devices
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.14,0:18:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're not asking for the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.10,0:18:20.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,source code to review it,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.07,0:18:22.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they actually don't even keep a copy.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.14,0:18:23.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are all these issues
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.16,0:18:25.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the fact that we're all relying on these
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.45,0:18:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical device companies
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.18,0:18:30.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for creating and testing their own software.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.18,0:18:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which, you know, these companies
Dialogue: 0,0:18:32.19,0:18:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have an interest in making sure that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.11,0:18:34.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nobody dies
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.73,0:18:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when you have something that's
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.14,0:18:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being implanted into your body
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.12,0:18:41.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and being literally screwed into your heart
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.100,0:18:43.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yousort of start to realise that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.46,0:18:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, why can't I look at the software
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.28,0:18:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's on this device?"
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.72,0:18:48.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not only that, I actually
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.38,0:18:50.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even offered to sign an NDA, I wasn't even
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.18,0:18:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asking "please publish it to the world"
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.04,0:18:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was just saying
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.14,0:18:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I would feel a lot better personally
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.68,0:18:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I could take a look at the code."
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.51,0:18:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was a non-starter with these
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.42,0:18:59.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical device companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.70,0:19:01.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what I've started doing is
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.12,0:19:02.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in addition to the research about the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.17,0:19:03.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal ramifications and what the framework are
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.81,0:19:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are to just sort of start talking about it
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.91,0:19:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sort of let people know
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.65,0:19:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is really a problem that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.37,0:19:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the medical devices that we have right now fail.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.19,0:19:13.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're great, they're amazing devices
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.74,0:19:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they have software in them
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.00,0:19:16.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and software has bugs.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.24,0:19:18.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So over time they will fail and
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.73,0:19:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, just because software is available
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.94,0:19:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for review doesn't mean it will be 100% safe.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.87,0:19:25.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will also have bugs.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.33,0:19:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the chances are that if there are problems
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.83,0:19:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they'll be caught faster
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.08,0:19:29.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that anyone can fix them;
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.72,0:19:31.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of the reasons why Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.42,0:19:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is so great to work on and so great to have
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.19,0:19:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your company's products
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.70,0:19:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are exactly the same reasons why
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.05,0:19:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it makes so much more sense to have it in medical devices.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.58,0:19:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But on top of that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.44,0:19:42.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's just an issue of public safety.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.48,0:19:44.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, you can come at it
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.63,0:19:47.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from either just the sensible
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.19,0:19:50.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"these devices fail and instead of —"
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.15,0:19:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are all these think tanks that
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.36,0:19:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are going around researching these devices
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.84,0:19:54.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are finding ways to
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.91,0:19:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,show that they're maliciously hackable.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.82,0:19:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those same think tanks would be reviewing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.90,0:20:02.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the source code line-by-line and finding problems
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.79,0:20:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that they could be fixed.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.24,0:20:05.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know there's a tremendous amount
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.84,0:20:07.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of interest in this.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.07,0:20:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And once you start thinking about your
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.44,0:20:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical devices you think about all the software
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.39,0:20:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you rely on, it's not just my medical device,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.62,0:20:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what about our voting machines?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.68,0:20:16.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What about our cars?
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.84,0:20:18.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our cars have been — there was a
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.03,0:20:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,security exploit on cars where
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.44,0:20:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they could be remotely hacked into
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.60,0:20:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through the most amazing of ways
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.67,0:20:32.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and controlled: steered and accelerated
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.43,0:20:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and — just amazing stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.19,0:20:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, it's everything that we rely on,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.27,0:20:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all that software interacts together.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.02,0:20:43.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we need our software that we rely on
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.55,0:20:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be, you know, to be Free and Open.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.62,0:20:49.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're building just so much infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.03,0:20:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both, you know, in our hearts, in our bodies,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.42,0:20:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also in our society, our financial markets.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.40,0:20:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The only way we'll create a good society
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.50,0:21:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going forward is by making sure that
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.89,0:21:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's freedom and —
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.83,0:21:04.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I like to often say
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.46,0:21:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eventually your doorknob is going to have a processor
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.68,0:21:08.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laugh]
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.42,0:21:11.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running software and who controls the code in that?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.81,0:21:13.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will end up being extremely important
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.28,0:21:14.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going forward.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.96,0:21:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's one final question I'd like to ask
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.48,0:21:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— thank you so much for your time —
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.17,0:21:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what I always like to ask people
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.44,0:21:27.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is for viewers who might not be currently in the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.05,0:21:29.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Free Software community,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.02,0:21:30.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who might be thinking about it:
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.59,0:21:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how did you get to where you are?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.97,0:21:36.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, imagine that you're a young woman
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.69,0:21:40.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your late teens or early twenties
Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.05,0:21:42.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what advice would you give to someone like that
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.33,0:21:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to end up in the august position
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.12,0:21:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Director of the GNOME Foundation?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.88,0:21:51.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People actually do ask me — especially law students —
Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.01,0:21:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how they can emulate my career path
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.76,0:21:55.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I tell them that I wish I was as organised
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.70,0:21:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they are to even ask about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.70,0:21:59.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I kind of, to be totally honest,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.39,0:22:01.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just stumbled into these jobs.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.74,0:22:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that interest in technology for women
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.26,0:22:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happens very early.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.78,0:22:12.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would say to all of you
Dialogue: 0,0:22:12.65,0:22:15.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you know of a little girl
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.05,0:22:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,try and introduce them to some kind of technology
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.12,0:22:20.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because once you get past a certain age
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.41,0:22:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many girls it's too late.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.58,0:22:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the AdaCamp we had a session
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.44,0:22:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we talked about how we could get
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.98,0:22:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more high school girls interested in technology
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.84,0:22:32.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was like "hang on, let's stop for a second
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.75,0:22:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let's go around the room really fast
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.31,0:22:36.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say what we think our earliest positive
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.52,0:22:38.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology experience was that we think was
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.31,0:22:39.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most formative."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.55,0:22:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that we could sort of think of how to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.30,0:22:43.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,create that for other girls.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.29,0:22:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And almost everybody as I went around
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.92,0:22:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had a parent, notably a father,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.43,0:22:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who had been interested in computers
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.10,0:22:51.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who had encouraged us at a very early age.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.60,0:22:53.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would say that that — I had a father
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.69,0:22:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was an engineer
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.62,0:22:57.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he encouraged me from the get-go
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.42,0:23:00.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm very old in Free Software terms
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.39,0:23:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so he encouraged me on Prodigy and Compuserve
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.76,0:23:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I had a computer from the earliest days
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.53,0:23:07.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I was running BASIC
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.75,0:23:12.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he looked at my 10 PRINT "KAREN RULES"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.80,0:23:15.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and said you know
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.39,0:23:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— and GOTO 10 —
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.65,0:23:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he said "you know what else you can do with this?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.12,0:23:20.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can do this, you can do that."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.20,0:23:21.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would say that was the earliest thing
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.53,0:23:23.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I went to engineering school
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.25,0:23:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I was on this technology path
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.21,0:23:27.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I worked in a computer lab
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.40,0:23:28.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there were no women
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.93,0:23:31.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I went into the director and I said
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.16,0:23:34.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You have no women in this lab and all these women
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.45,0:23:35.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are walking in and it's so hostile
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.99,0:23:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they just leave! It's horrible. Can you do something?"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:38.14,0:23:39.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said "You're hired!"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.49,0:23:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's how I wound up learning about computers
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.13,0:23:45.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and spending all my time in the computer lab.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.29,0:23:48.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it's quite lucky in part.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.09,0:23:49.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I went to law school
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.22,0:23:52.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I didn't even know who Eben Moglen was
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.10,0:23:54.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I happened to be in his class
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.82,0:23:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on perspectives on modern legal thought.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.81,0:24:00.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was so moved by — he's an incredible speaker
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.75,0:24:03.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was just so moved by his teaching —
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.17,0:24:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he was my favourite professor in law school.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.87,0:24:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I went off and did securities law!
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.95,0:24:10.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I decided — I got fed up and I quit
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.34,0:24:11.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he heard I'd quit
Dialogue: 0,0:24:11.08,0:24:13.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he'd started the Software Freedom Law Center
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.11,0:24:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and asked me if I wanted to learn about non-profit law
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.61,0:24:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was like "yes!"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.12,0:24:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I hadn't actually thought about Free Software
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.66,0:24:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that much since the 90s.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.22,0:24:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even though I thought it was cool.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:22.38,0:24:24.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then all of a sudden I had the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:24:24.65,0:24:26.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be in the best spot in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.43,0:24:29.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And over time I became really passionate about Free Software.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.17,0:24:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I had the medical issue happen to me.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.32,0:24:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all of a sudden my personal and professional
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.12,0:24:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were all combined.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.31,0:24:36.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I've just been very very lucky.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.36,0:24:38.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would say as an advice to someone
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.20,0:24:39.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's starting out:
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.31,0:24:43.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say "First, be open to new experiences
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.42,0:24:46.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't think that the next choice you're going to make
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.55,0:24:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.62,0:24:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And try to do good work in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.80,0:24:52.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has good ramifications
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.39,0:24:55.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it helps you out in the end too."
Dialogue: 0,0:24:55.47,0:24:57.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you so much Karen.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.03,0:24:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was really kind of you to spend the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.40,0:25:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I appreciate it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.43,0:25:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks for interviewing me.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.53,0:25:03.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks.