WEBVTT 00:00:08.308 --> 00:00:09.451 My name is A.J. Withers 00:00:09.451 --> 00:00:12.887 and i am a queer, disabled community organizer 00:00:12.887 --> 00:00:17.451 in Toronto around anti-poverty and disability, uh, issues. 00:00:17.451 --> 00:00:19.453 And i have a book coming out in January 00:00:19.453 --> 00:00:21.246 called "Disability Politics And Theory" 00:00:21.246 --> 00:00:23.150 from Fernwood Press. 00:00:23.150 --> 00:00:24.258 Hi my name is Karine, 00:00:24.258 --> 00:00:25.760 and i'm a member of Common Cause 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:28.860 and i'm also a health professional in a community health centre. 00:00:28.860 --> 00:00:36.537 Um, i was also, i also had before a disability, a temporary disability, 00:00:36.537 --> 00:00:40.240 and i also have a sister that has a permanent disability, 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.142 that is living currently with a disability. 00:00:42.142 --> 00:00:45.512 So this is why i wanted to be part of this, uh, interview. 00:00:45.512 --> 00:00:49.884 My name's Bryan, i'm with Common Cause, Toronto. 00:00:49.884 --> 00:00:53.154 My name is Ann, i'm a member of Common Cause, 00:00:53.154 --> 00:00:55.790 i also work with people with developmental disabilities, 00:00:55.790 --> 00:00:57.342 and [?] 00:01:01.495 --> 00:01:02.729 Disability is a social construct, 00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:08.101 and depending on the culture, the time, or the context one is in, 00:01:08.101 --> 00:01:13.006 will determine whether or not disability is marked on that person. 00:01:13.006 --> 00:01:15.509 So in some places and times and cultures, 00:01:15.509 --> 00:01:16.810 something that's considered disability 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:21.082 isn't considered disability in other times, places, or cultures. 00:01:21.082 --> 00:01:24.637 And fundamentally, disabled people are constructed 00:01:24.637 --> 00:01:28.956 as people who are considered abnormal or unwanted or unfit 00:01:28.956 --> 00:01:31.053 within a given economy or social system. 00:01:36.229 --> 00:01:37.872 The medical model of disability 00:01:37.872 --> 00:01:43.870 is the mainstream way that people understand disability as a pathology or a sickness, 00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:50.086 and, um, it... seeks out, um pathologies or abnormalities, 00:01:50.086 --> 00:01:54.405 and works to find them and fix them, or cure them, 00:01:54.405 --> 00:01:56.359 and failing that, accommodate them. 00:01:57.377 --> 00:01:58.631 The social model of disability 00:01:58.631 --> 00:02:00.488 is a model of understanding disability 00:02:00.488 --> 00:02:03.023 which presents a separation between impairment, 00:02:03.023 --> 00:02:05.092 so the physical or mental characteristics 00:02:05.092 --> 00:02:08.495 that a person has that may be different from what other people typically have, 00:02:08.495 --> 00:02:13.967 and disability or disablement, so the social process that oppresses people with disabilities, 00:02:13.967 --> 00:02:16.803 through different institutions in our society, 00:02:16.803 --> 00:02:19.807 such as work, school, the state. 00:02:19.807 --> 00:02:21.175 So the social model of disability 00:02:21.175 --> 00:02:22.676 what i find important to remember, 00:02:22.676 --> 00:02:25.412 locates the problem of disability, the challenges, 00:02:25.412 --> 00:02:27.214 in the society, 00:02:27.214 --> 00:02:28.817 rather than in the individual, 00:02:28.817 --> 00:02:31.464 and looks to address those through social action 00:02:31.464 --> 00:02:33.472 rather than through changing individuals with disabiities. 00:02:35.422 --> 00:02:36.851 Radical disability politics 00:02:36.851 --> 00:02:41.928 is a shift from the mainstream way of thinking about disability. 00:02:41.928 --> 00:02:46.278 The mainstream way is a medical model. 00:02:46.278 --> 00:02:49.770 The disabilities studies canon, um, 00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:53.841 is a way that incorporates an understanding of oppression 00:02:53.841 --> 00:02:56.710 while still adopting some of the medical model. 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:59.280 And a radical disability analysis 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:02.161 is a complete rejection of the medical model 00:03:02.161 --> 00:03:05.365 as something that has been implemented 00:03:05.365 --> 00:03:08.021 in order to maintain power and control 00:03:08.021 --> 00:03:10.357 for people with privilege in society. 00:03:10.357 --> 00:03:12.859 And fundamentally questioning that 00:03:12.859 --> 00:03:15.969 and recognizing disability as an entirely social construct. 00:03:22.736 --> 00:03:25.102 The idea of what's "normal", 00:03:25.102 --> 00:03:28.108 that disability is constructed as being abnormal, 00:03:28.108 --> 00:03:35.416 was brought into the english language around the 1850's, around the time of eugenics. 00:03:35.416 --> 00:03:43.623 And that idea that, um, many times we think of as being always there, 00:03:43.623 --> 00:03:46.557 was findamentally rooted in, um, 00:03:46.557 --> 00:03:49.896 the creation of an Industrial Revolution, um 00:03:49.896 --> 00:03:55.302 changing capitalism to the capitalism that we know now. 00:03:55.302 --> 00:04:04.078 and constructing workers as, um, normal bodies that could function within factories. 00:04:04.078 --> 00:04:11.418 And so, all of the people that couldn't function within factories became abnormal or disabled. 00:04:11.418 --> 00:04:14.755 And up til the Industrial Revolution, 00:04:14.755 --> 00:04:18.725 things like intellectual disabilities and oftentimes physical disabilities 00:04:18.725 --> 00:04:21.928 weren't thought of as disabilities at all. 00:04:21.928 --> 00:04:24.442 They were just thought of as human variance. 00:04:25.532 --> 00:04:30.037 The description of disability and the marginalization of disabled people 00:04:30.037 --> 00:04:35.909 is really, um, fundamental to the success of capitalism, 00:04:35.909 --> 00:04:41.248 both in marginalising people that aren't participating in the capitalist system 00:04:41.248 --> 00:04:47.187 the way that the system requires people to participate, 00:04:47.187 --> 00:04:57.731 but also in the way that, um, disabled people, um non-disabled people are given a threat. 00:04:57.731 --> 00:05:02.002 So, disabled people are often times forced to live in poverty, 00:05:02.002 --> 00:05:05.906 marginalized, experience any number of different kinds of segregation, 00:05:05.906 --> 00:05:12.112 and that's a threat to people that aren't seen as disabled to be productive, 00:05:12.112 --> 00:05:17.617 and to work in the capitalist system, and if they don't there are these consequences, 00:05:17.617 --> 00:05:23.056 and disabled lives are the manifestation of that kind of consequence. 00:05:23.056 --> 00:05:33.867 For me, for me, the kind of, the ways that, that work, or or labour, um, 00:05:33.867 --> 00:05:37.104 interacts with disability or ability, 00:05:37.104 --> 00:05:43.844 in thinking about it more, i kind of appreciate... 00:05:43.844 --> 00:05:51.418 i'm starting to appreciate more and more how important, um, it actually is, for me. 00:05:51.418 --> 00:05:58.726 And i also see the importance of of of people that i work with 00:05:58.726 --> 00:06:01.495 and people that i have worked with all throughout my life, like, 00:06:01.495 --> 00:06:03.973 conceiving of themselves as able-bodied, 00:06:03.973 --> 00:06:19.079 while also terrified of or recognizing the lie of that. 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:23.984 i think it's a rarity for me to have actually like shared a workplace with anybody 00:06:23.984 --> 00:06:31.158 that i would, in, kind of like full consideration consider an able-bodied person 00:06:31.158 --> 00:06:36.096 But it's centrally important that they consider themselves able-bodied, 00:06:36.096 --> 00:06:44.127 uh, and we always have, um no matter how absurd that actually is. 00:06:47.673 --> 00:06:52.512 It's a really substantial disciplining mechanism 00:06:52.512 --> 00:06:58.518 that's almost bred in the bone of almost every single working class person i know. 00:06:58.518 --> 00:07:07.428 And that's chasing after being 00:07:07.428 --> 00:07:11.231 the strongest, most productive worker 00:07:11.231 --> 00:07:12.982 not just for the sake of your boss 00:07:12.982 --> 00:07:16.187 but almost for your sake as well. 00:07:16.187 --> 00:07:26.546 Um, so, i think it's fundamentally important that we understand 00:07:26.546 --> 00:07:29.329 the associations that capital has, 00:07:29.329 --> 00:07:32.519 or the importance that capital puts on our bodies, 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:37.178 and it's important that we understand 00:07:37.178 --> 00:07:39.578 the ways in which we've been hoodwinked into, into agreeing with that. 00:07:43.063 --> 00:07:46.333 For me, what i do for a job? 00:07:46.333 --> 00:07:51.204 I work with people who have a label of developmental or intellectual disabilities. 00:07:51.204 --> 00:07:58.345 Um, i've seen how, first of all, many of the situations they're put in in terms of work 00:07:58.345 --> 00:08:00.547 can be extremely exploitative, 00:08:00.547 --> 00:08:05.586 like working for much less than minimum wage, in environments that like, 00:08:05.586 --> 00:08:07.054 what used to be called sheltered workshops, 00:08:07.054 --> 00:08:12.392 where they do sort of fairly like, menial, repetitive tasks for an extremely low wage. 00:08:12.392 --> 00:08:18.498 Sort of the pressure in a way that's put on people to work in order to be sort of... 00:08:18.498 --> 00:08:21.768 that that's what makes your life meaningful 00:08:21.768 --> 00:08:25.605 as like a functioning adult, is that you should be working. 00:08:25.605 --> 00:08:30.877 The ways in which disablement or being disabled interacts with that 00:08:30.877 --> 00:08:38.685 i think is kind of, isn't quite as, isn't quite as descriptive as what it means to be able bodied. 00:08:38.685 --> 00:08:40.568 As opposed to disabled. 00:08:40.568 --> 00:08:52.225 Um, and,like, every every minute of the working day and even after work... 00:08:52.225 --> 00:08:56.170 like, myself and almost every single person i've ever worked with 00:08:56.170 --> 00:09:01.742 is in this battle to assert that they're actually physically capable of doing things 00:09:01.742 --> 00:09:09.182 that their only, the only reason that they're doing them, 00:09:09.182 --> 00:09:13.820 and the kind of, the degree to which they're pushing themselves 00:09:13.820 --> 00:09:16.174 is because it's their job. 00:09:17.424 --> 00:09:27.368 We conceive of ourselves as completely competent, independent, able-bodied people 00:09:27.368 --> 00:09:29.475 and really nothing could be further from the truth. 00:09:37.086 --> 00:09:40.280 The Canadian state is intertwined with capitalism, 00:09:40.280 --> 00:09:47.349 um, but also, um, i think that one of the things that disabilty politics can bring 00:09:47.349 --> 00:09:51.392 is like an understanding of people as individuals, 00:09:51.392 --> 00:09:55.162 and negotiating different people's needs, 00:09:55.162 --> 00:10:01.669 and that that, um, can help work to undermine the state and the state's power, 00:10:01.669 --> 00:10:09.876 and really looking at what people, um, need, and how we can provide community support 00:10:09.876 --> 00:10:12.775 and build community strength is a really important contribution 00:10:12.775 --> 00:10:15.836 that radical disability politics can make to anarchism and to the ways that we understand the state. 00:10:19.671 --> 00:10:22.272 So i think the state plays, like, many roles. 00:10:22.272 --> 00:10:27.695 And... it has a fair bit of influence in like the lives of many disabled people. 00:10:27.695 --> 00:10:33.400 Um, the state often makes decisions about who is disabled or not disabled, 00:10:33.400 --> 00:10:36.036 who's eligible for different incomes or programs. 00:10:36.036 --> 00:10:41.575 The state also, in Canada, administers medical and social services 00:10:41.575 --> 00:10:47.447 that can, um, impact on the lives of disabled people. 00:10:47.447 --> 00:10:51.952 Like for example in the past, large institutions... 00:10:51.952 --> 00:10:55.128 um, i think when you're talking about the state and disability 00:10:55.128 --> 00:10:58.159 something that you have to talk about eugenics. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:03.441 Um, so you can look at the idea of, like, the body politic, right? 00:11:03.441 --> 00:11:06.867 and how the state is in some ways invested 00:11:06.867 --> 00:11:11.004 in having, like, a healthy or fit population. 00:11:11.004 --> 00:11:18.626 Um, and, in the past we've seen, uh, 00:11:18.626 --> 00:11:22.883 the state impose eugenic policies on PWD 00:11:22.883 --> 00:11:26.153 for example, like, forced sterilization of PWD 00:11:26.153 --> 00:11:28.565 in Alberta and BC. 00:11:28.565 --> 00:11:30.925 For me, ive done a lot of research into anarcho-primitivism, 00:11:30.925 --> 00:11:34.230 ive also done a lot of research into, uh, historically, 00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:37.731 the eugenic movement and the role that anarchists played there. 00:11:37.731 --> 00:11:41.001 And some anarchists were very against eugenics, 00:11:41.001 --> 00:11:42.402 like Kropotkin. 00:11:42.402 --> 00:11:45.887 But other anarchists were eugenicists, 00:11:45.887 --> 00:11:51.445 and actively called for the sterilization of disabled people, or the "unfit". 00:11:51.445 --> 00:11:56.034 Um, and i think that that's something that's important 00:11:56.034 --> 00:11:57.798 for disabled people to recognize 00:11:57.798 --> 00:12:01.055 has been the case in all movements, 00:12:01.055 --> 00:12:06.093 and there have been elements of that, um, throughout history. 00:12:06.093 --> 00:12:09.830 And that doesnt necessarily reflect all anarchism. 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:13.542 And i think that people can make that distinction, 00:12:13.542 --> 00:12:15.569 but i think that its really important 00:12:15.569 --> 00:12:19.393 that people are accountable to, 00:12:19.393 --> 00:12:22.309 that anarchists are accountable to the eugenic past, 00:12:22.309 --> 00:12:24.044 and the eugenic present, 00:12:24.044 --> 00:12:25.616 through anarcho-primitivism 00:12:25.616 --> 00:12:27.381 and actively challenge it 00:12:27.381 --> 00:12:29.285 and actively work against it, 00:12:29.285 --> 00:12:33.464 in order to how the solidarity that disabled people i think need to see 00:12:33.464 --> 00:12:40.941 in order for there to be mroe trust in building a more collective movement. 00:12:40.941 --> 00:12:42.462 It's just one component, 00:12:42.462 --> 00:12:44.197 their ableism is just one component 00:12:44.197 --> 00:12:50.103 of like a holistically misanthropic social outlook. 00:12:50.103 --> 00:12:51.605 Almost more misanthropic, 00:12:51.605 --> 00:12:55.105 almost more anti-person, 00:12:55.105 --> 00:12:57.102 or anti... 00:12:57.102 --> 00:12:58.145 not just anti worker, 00:12:58.145 --> 00:12:59.780 but like, anti-person, 00:12:59.780 --> 00:13:04.625 almost as misanthropic as capitalism 00:13:04.625 --> 00:13:06.182 or potentially even more so. 00:13:06.520 --> 00:13:08.389 Theres a number of different ways 00:13:08.389 --> 00:13:10.557 that people view primitivism 00:13:10.557 --> 00:13:16.328 but fundamentally, uh, in order to have this utopic view for certain people 00:13:16.328 --> 00:13:18.836 oftentimes very privileged people, 00:13:18.836 --> 00:13:21.434 um, disabled people have to die. 00:13:21.434 --> 00:13:23.759 And that is very sad, 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:25.338 and its not ok, 00:13:25.338 --> 00:13:27.875 and i think its important for all anarchists 00:13:27.875 --> 00:13:30.944 because primitivism is so linked to anarchism 00:13:30.944 --> 00:13:33.929 and claims to be a part of anarchism, 00:13:33.929 --> 00:13:35.983 that anarchists challenge that, 00:13:35.983 --> 00:13:36.784 and confront that, 00:13:36.784 --> 00:13:41.870 and work to express that that is not their view. 00:13:41.870 --> 00:13:45.574 And to ensure that disabled people are included and valued. 00:13:53.957 --> 00:13:56.536 There's lots of different kinds of anarchism, 00:13:56.536 --> 00:13:59.173 and um, for me, 00:13:59.173 --> 00:14:02.304 any kind of good politically sound form of anarchism 00:14:02.304 --> 00:14:05.112 has a strong anti-oppression analysis. 00:14:05.112 --> 00:14:08.218 And disability is a really key component of that. 00:14:08.387 --> 00:14:11.318 Because of the 1st principle, one of the 1st principle of anarchism 00:14:11.318 --> 00:14:13.153 is everyone gives what they can 00:14:13.153 --> 00:14:15.355 and they take what they need. 00:14:15.355 --> 00:14:20.787 So thats exactly what PWD need, so they can participate,uh, fully 00:14:20.787 --> 00:14:23.341 within their own capability, 00:14:23.341 --> 00:14:25.198 uh, in the society. 00:14:25.198 --> 00:14:29.843 And also take what they need, the needs, the support, they need 00:14:29.843 --> 00:14:32.537 they can take it from the society. 00:14:33.651 --> 00:14:37.077 So as someone that believes in radical disability politics and anarchism 00:14:37.077 --> 00:14:40.696 i think that they both, like for me theyre inseparable. 00:14:41.527 --> 00:14:44.218 My understanding of mutual aid 00:14:44.218 --> 00:14:50.056 isn't so much that it's an aspiration that anarchists have, 00:14:50.056 --> 00:14:57.831 but that it's actually a recognition that it's one of the primary elements of our world. 00:14:57.831 --> 00:15:03.303 and it goes unrecognized, um, that there is an interdependence. 00:15:03.303 --> 00:15:08.063 i think that mutual aid and ... if we focus more on the fact that 00:15:08.063 --> 00:15:11.221 everything that we do is collective, um, 00:15:11.221 --> 00:15:13.747 it offers a lot more possibilities 00:15:13.747 --> 00:15:19.119 for a society in which people who may have differing abilities, different needs 00:15:19.119 --> 00:15:22.188 can be respected as equal members of that society 00:15:22.188 --> 00:15:26.221 and the contributions they can make, and they do make are respected, 00:15:26.221 --> 00:15:30.307 and that it's seen that their, all of our successes or failures 00:15:30.307 --> 00:15:33.367 and the various things that we try are based on everyones work, 00:15:33.367 --> 00:15:36.170 and not just you as an individual. 00:15:36.170 --> 00:15:38.156 which i think is ultimately positive for all people, 00:15:38.156 --> 00:15:41.907 but especially those people who are are in society considered disabled. 00:15:42.276 --> 00:15:44.478 And often times in disability communities 00:15:44.478 --> 00:15:47.026 that manifests in "care collectives", 00:15:47.026 --> 00:15:49.816 and people coming together to help folks 00:15:49.816 --> 00:15:54.120 you know, go pee or make dinner or shop or whatever it is, 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.939 but the acknowledgement that that's a reciprocal relationship, 00:15:57.939 --> 00:16:02.062 that the disabled person gets something from it, 00:16:02.062 --> 00:16:04.731 but the non-disabled person, or the person with different needs 00:16:04.731 --> 00:16:06.767 gets things from it as well, 00:16:06.767 --> 00:16:11.732 and that both of those roles are really meaningful and important. 00:16:11.732 --> 00:16:16.343 Um, but, mutual aid and the spirit of collectivity 00:16:16.343 --> 00:16:21.114 and acknowledging that interdependence, i think are super important, 00:16:21.114 --> 00:16:25.952 and, um, beyond like yknow a do-it-yourself culture, 00:16:25.952 --> 00:16:28.777 like in creating a do-it-together culture. 00:16:30.790 --> 00:16:36.020 Well, disabled people have been engaged in direct action for decades upon decades. 00:16:36.020 --> 00:16:42.035 And have participated in a lot of different really creative actions 00:16:42.035 --> 00:16:45.447 that have been acceptable for lots of different people, 00:16:45.447 --> 00:16:50.945 and I think that we can bring that creativity to all different kinds of organizing 00:16:50.945 --> 00:16:52.346 around direct action. 00:16:52.346 --> 00:16:55.616 and even just like case actions, 00:16:55.616 --> 00:17:01.355 where, um, disabled people have oftentimes fought Disability or Welfare to get what they need. 00:17:01.355 --> 00:17:05.359 Um, but also disabled people oftentimes 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:11.932 instead of having our bodies treated as burdens or hazzards, 00:17:11.932 --> 00:17:17.004 use our bodies in ways that are really powerful in direct action. 00:17:17.004 --> 00:17:22.924 And i think that a lot of times people fall into boxes of what direct action means 00:17:22.924 --> 00:17:23.911 and what it looks like, 00:17:23.911 --> 00:17:25.943 and, and, broadening that box 00:17:25.943 --> 00:17:30.151 and making sure that it's inclusive and accessible to people is really important. 00:17:30.151 --> 00:17:34.884 And in doing that, oftentimes actions can be stronger and more powerful. 00:17:43.172 --> 00:17:46.005 We often exclude people with disabilities in our movements, 00:17:46.005 --> 00:17:47.367 or during our events, 00:17:47.367 --> 00:17:49.674 I think we don't, we often don't think about their issues, 00:17:49.674 --> 00:17:52.873 and, but, it's part of everybody's issues, 00:17:52.873 --> 00:17:54.742 because everybody at one point will be disabled, 00:17:54.742 --> 00:17:57.078 either temporarily or permanently. 00:17:57.078 --> 00:17:59.513 So it's something that affects everybody, 00:17:59.513 --> 00:18:04.085 every single person will be affected with disability issue. 00:18:04.085 --> 00:18:06.954 In terms of the way that people organize, 00:18:06.954 --> 00:18:16.697 um, often times radicals will view people's worth in a movement with how much they produce, 00:18:16.697 --> 00:18:18.298 and how productive they are. 00:18:18.298 --> 00:18:23.571 And that is just like a, an adoption of a capitalist value 00:18:23.571 --> 00:18:26.040 that's really unfortunate and problematic, 00:18:26.040 --> 00:18:33.814 and shifting that to value people for any number of ways that they participate in the community, 00:18:33.814 --> 00:18:36.851 beyond what's viewed as production, 00:18:36.851 --> 00:18:39.553 is really important 00:18:39.553 --> 00:18:43.357 and is something that I think a lot of anarchists really struggle with. 00:18:43.357 --> 00:18:49.463 So, collective responsibility is, um, sort of a concept that is present in anarchism 00:18:49.463 --> 00:18:52.971 that describes how, 00:18:52.971 --> 00:18:59.340 it sort of puts into practice I think our focus on the social over the individual. 00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:02.724 So not only am I responsible for the things that I do individually, 00:19:02.724 --> 00:19:04.712 but also the things that happen around me. 00:19:04.712 --> 00:19:07.281 Um, just to give a really quick practical example, 00:19:07.281 --> 00:19:09.643 if I'm in a political organization, 00:19:09.643 --> 00:19:12.119 and I didn't promise to make the poster, 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:13.687 but someone else did, 00:19:13.687 --> 00:19:17.057 but I never took the time to ask them, you know, if they needed help, 00:19:17.057 --> 00:19:21.795 if the poster doesn't get made, it is also my responsibility as well as theirs. 00:19:21.795 --> 00:19:24.086 Right? Even though... so it's focusing on the social, 00:19:24.086 --> 00:19:27.201 sort of like taking precedence over the individual. 00:19:27.201 --> 00:19:31.470 Um, how I think that relates to disability that's important, 00:19:31.470 --> 00:19:35.476 is that it can also relate to issues around accessibility. 00:19:35.476 --> 00:19:41.547 Um, so that we would all have a collective responsibility 00:19:41.547 --> 00:19:46.853 to make the spaces that we work in politically, 00:19:46.853 --> 00:19:48.855 accessible to as many people as possible. 00:19:48.855 --> 00:19:52.321 I think what we should be trying for, 00:19:52.321 --> 00:19:58.065 is to create spaces where we are responsible for what we do, 00:19:58.065 --> 00:20:00.588 but where there's also support available, 00:20:00.588 --> 00:20:04.738 and where there's also a culture where it's OK to ask for that support when needed. 00:20:04.738 --> 00:20:08.993 Um, I think that in terms of mutual aid and collective responsibility, 00:20:08.993 --> 00:20:11.408 that it shouldn't be so much about 00:20:11.408 --> 00:20:14.381 "oh, ok, well we have to provide these accommodations for this person, 00:20:14.381 --> 00:20:16.583 and we have to make sure that there's a ramp for this person", 00:20:16.583 --> 00:20:17.718 and that kind of thing. 00:20:17.718 --> 00:20:21.188 As much as like building, 00:20:21.188 --> 00:20:23.757 sort of like building a broader culture of solidarity 00:20:23.757 --> 00:20:27.761 where we all take responsibility for ensuring that the space allows for as much as possible 00:20:27.761 --> 00:20:30.487 the full participation of anyone who would want to participate. 00:20:30.764 --> 00:20:33.200 One of the ways that anarchist organizations can structure themselves 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.764 is implementing a culture within their organization 00:20:36.764 --> 00:20:41.501 that um automatically looks at accessibility, 00:20:41.501 --> 00:20:44.611 and interdependence, 00:20:44.611 --> 00:20:47.314 and ways of talking about meeting people's needs, 00:20:47.314 --> 00:20:49.916 and ensuring that people can get in the door, 00:20:49.916 --> 00:20:54.154 and can have meaningful participation in an organization. 00:20:54.154 --> 00:20:57.337 Um, but also ensuring that people have... 00:20:57.337 --> 00:21:02.029 that organizations put forward demands that are inclusive of disability issues, 00:21:02.029 --> 00:21:04.768 and are not tokenistic, 00:21:04.768 --> 00:21:10.526 but are, come from disabled people and from disabled communities 00:21:10.526 --> 00:21:13.702 around what we actually need and are fighting for. 00:21:20.614 --> 00:21:22.015 Like as a member of Common Cause 00:21:22.015 --> 00:21:24.690 with mostly just one other person in Common Cause, 00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:26.253 like, I started looking at some of this stuff, 00:21:26.253 --> 00:21:29.523 and tried to bring it to other people in the organization 00:21:29.523 --> 00:21:31.058 who maybe werent as familiar with it, 00:21:31.058 --> 00:21:33.607 or hadnt realyl had much interest in it. 00:21:33.607 --> 00:21:39.099 i think... sometimes theres a lack... 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:41.835 i think people maybe had certain preconceptions 00:21:41.835 --> 00:21:44.938 about what radical disability politics were about. 00:21:44.938 --> 00:21:48.514 one of them maybe being that they're for certain people, 00:21:48.514 --> 00:21:50.604 that it's for disabled people. 00:21:50.604 --> 00:21:55.016 And i think what a lot of people maybe realize 00:21:55.016 --> 00:21:57.684 because we've seen some more interest in it, 00:21:57.684 --> 00:21:59.799 is that if affects... 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:02.156 the things we're talking about in terms of, um, 00:22:02.156 --> 00:22:08.329 being either disabled by society, by work, by school, 00:22:08.329 --> 00:22:10.597 are things that a lot of people have experienced, 00:22:10.597 --> 00:22:12.198 but if youre not experiencing that, 00:22:12.198 --> 00:22:15.542 what youre experiencing is almost like a process of beig "abled" 00:22:15.542 --> 00:22:17.904 You're experiencing the other side of that, 00:22:17.904 --> 00:22:20.279 and that can also bring a lot of tensions, right? 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:21.775 Like there can be... 00:22:21.775 --> 00:22:23.376 you can kind of feel like... 00:22:23.376 --> 00:22:25.612 even if youre having a really hard time 00:22:25.612 --> 00:22:27.214 like physically or emotionally, 00:22:27.214 --> 00:22:29.015 you dont want to let people know at your work 00:22:29.015 --> 00:22:31.318 because you're going to sort of fall into this other category or person. 00:22:31.318 --> 00:22:36.069 So I think what is important for anarchists to realize, 00:22:36.069 --> 00:22:40.341 & I think whats come out of some of the discussions I've had with other Common Cause members 00:22:40.341 --> 00:22:46.518 is that these questions of like um who is excluded and included in different spaces 00:22:46.518 --> 00:22:51.504 and sort of like how we support each other 00:22:51.504 --> 00:22:55.062 and how we place value on different activities 00:22:55.062 --> 00:22:57.013 I think is something that affects all people, 00:22:57.013 --> 00:23:02.349 and these politics are essential for understanding how we analyze the world 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:04.151 and the kind of changes that we would want. 00:23:04.351 --> 00:23:07.788 Having an analysis that we don't want to be reformist, 00:23:07.788 --> 00:23:10.824 that like this movement shouldn't be a reformist movement, 00:23:10.824 --> 00:23:13.313 this should be a revolutionary movement, 00:23:13.313 --> 00:23:20.500 so although we wanna try to make people's life better on the day to day, 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:22.335 like for example the Raise The Rates campaign 00:23:22.335 --> 00:23:26.940 on increasing the Ontario Works and ODSP 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:36.016 so increasing the support programs, the money for programs up to 40%, 00:23:36.016 --> 00:23:37.918 will make their lives better, 00:23:37.918 --> 00:23:39.686 so we wanna fight for those things too, 00:23:39.686 --> 00:23:42.623 but we wanna have an analysis of like a revolutionary, 00:23:42.623 --> 00:23:45.961 like the end of capitalism and the state, 00:23:45.961 --> 00:23:48.493 not just trying to reform what the state is doing right now. 00:23:51.951 --> 00:23:57.570 So theres a lot of different things that, um, anarchist organizations can do, 00:23:57.570 --> 00:23:59.372 and there's really practical things, 00:23:59.372 --> 00:24:06.213 and there's kind of often times messier and harder, um, institutional things that can happen. 00:24:06.213 --> 00:24:12.486 So there's like an infinite number of issues that cross over 00:24:12.486 --> 00:24:16.490 and like I said before, I'm an anarchist and do radical disability work, 00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:19.326 and for me there's not a cross over, 00:24:19.326 --> 00:24:21.795 they're completely integrated, 00:24:21.795 --> 00:24:26.038 but, um, even for people that there's not this like basic issues 00:24:26.038 --> 00:24:32.706 around poverty and segregation, and like the forced encarceration 00:24:32.706 --> 00:24:36.710 of many many people who are labeled as disabled, 00:24:36.710 --> 00:24:40.710 um, the way that capitalism plays out in disabled people's lives. 00:24:41.048 --> 00:24:43.500 The different components that make up capitalism 00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:48.388 it's not just about how can anarchists engage in mass movements 00:24:48.388 --> 00:24:52.230 particularly structured around disability theory 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:56.329 or mass struggles of disabled people, 00:24:56.329 --> 00:24:59.599 although that is stuff that has to be fought out, 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:01.901 like in our cities, in our workplaces, 00:25:01.901 --> 00:25:07.407 issues of accessibility, um, uh, casualization of employment, 00:25:07.407 --> 00:25:10.017 or just like chronic unemployment. 00:25:10.017 --> 00:25:15.716 It's not just about how can anarchists participate in mass movements structured around disability, 00:25:15.716 --> 00:25:19.586 but how can a more thorough understanding of 00:25:19.586 --> 00:25:25.688 the importance of disability being incorporated within all the mass struggles that we have. 00:25:27.294 --> 00:25:28.963 Um, I think another thing that we can do 00:25:28.963 --> 00:25:32.700 is that, so then, when we start to get these ideas, 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:36.403 even if it's just very like basic, new ideas, 00:25:36.403 --> 00:25:38.705 to start to bring that to some of our mass work, 00:25:38.705 --> 00:25:41.921 is trying to sort of link up different issues. 00:25:41.921 --> 00:25:44.429 Like a very basic example was, um, 00:25:44.429 --> 00:25:47.080 in like a mass organization that a number of us in Common Cause are part of, 00:25:47.080 --> 00:25:49.883 there was a campaign that was posed for free transit. 00:25:49.883 --> 00:25:52.420 And one of our members made an amendment to that 00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:55.122 to make it a campaign to make it free and accessible transit. 00:25:55.122 --> 00:25:59.260 So just this like, and this isnt someone who had any particular knowledge of disability, 00:25:59.260 --> 00:26:02.396 who would consider themselves disabled or anything like that, 00:26:02.396 --> 00:26:05.933 um, but from that it's become a part of the campaign 00:26:05.933 --> 00:26:08.903 where different disability groups are involved in that, 00:26:08.903 --> 00:26:12.806 and it's something that, there have been actions around accessibility 00:26:12.806 --> 00:26:14.775 and this isn't something Common Cause has done, 00:26:14.775 --> 00:26:17.477 but its something that we we're able to sort of introduce that, 00:26:17.477 --> 00:26:24.452 I think, um, too, even if we're not focusing on struggles that are specific to disability 00:26:24.452 --> 00:26:26.520 to try to see how we can bring that in, 00:26:26.520 --> 00:26:28.989 so if members are involved in anti-prison struggle, 00:26:28.989 --> 00:26:31.426 how can we bring an analysis around other institutions 00:26:31.426 --> 00:26:33.423 that exist that are disability focused? 00:26:33.423 --> 00:26:35.963 What's the relationship between psychiatric institutions and prisons? 00:26:35.963 --> 00:26:38.113 I think trying to sort of make those links, 00:26:38.113 --> 00:26:41.335 and to connect those struggles is a role that we can have 00:26:41.335 --> 00:26:44.492 because we tend to have members involved in a lot of different groups. 00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:47.541 Um, theres a bunch of different ways that people 00:26:47.541 --> 00:26:50.477 can work with different organizations, 00:26:50.477 --> 00:26:54.682 like neighbourhood communities, unions, and student groups. 00:26:54.682 --> 00:26:57.804 One of the ways is articulating disability politics 00:26:57.804 --> 00:27:00.488 in a way that makes sense to those organizations. 00:27:00.488 --> 00:27:04.291 So sometimes the way the conversation that you have with different groups 00:27:04.291 --> 00:27:05.659 is going to be slightly different. 00:27:05.659 --> 00:27:10.597 But around union organizing, talking about injured workers, 00:27:10.597 --> 00:27:13.454 and talking about capitalism and oppression, 00:27:13.454 --> 00:27:16.737 and, uh, the exclusion of disabled people 00:27:16.737 --> 00:27:21.742 and the impact that has on workers across the board. 00:27:21.742 --> 00:27:24.182 With respect to neighbourhood organizations, 00:27:24.182 --> 00:27:28.640 there's uh, every neighbourhood has disabled people in it, 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:32.887 and that are a really vibrant, important part of every community, 00:27:32.887 --> 00:27:36.024 and so, working to help people understand that 00:27:36.024 --> 00:27:38.346 and recognize the places (?) where that is, 00:27:38.346 --> 00:27:42.362 and, uh, working with people to help build bridges, 00:27:42.362 --> 00:27:44.842 and incorporate disabled people and disability issues into that community. 00:27:51.442 --> 00:28:01.015 I don't think its utopic to, uh, to propose an abolition of social stratification, 00:28:01.015 --> 00:28:08.022 and in that disability is predominantly ... 00:28:08.022 --> 00:28:14.361 there's a difference between the conditions under which a human body finds itself, 00:28:14.361 --> 00:28:16.194 or is put in, 00:28:16.194 --> 00:28:21.435 and whether or not they're conceived of as disabled or able bodied. 00:28:21.435 --> 00:28:26.373 Um, like that, like you were saying , that is a social construction. 00:28:26.373 --> 00:28:36.784 And it's not utopic to um work towards the abolition of that social construction. 00:28:36.784 --> 00:28:38.950 I think it's also important to keep in mind that like 00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:44.198 many, if, like thinking about the future, 00:28:44.198 --> 00:28:48.929 and about like how a lot of the current social processes of disablement 00:28:48.929 --> 00:28:52.975 would be unnecessary 00:28:52.975 --> 00:28:55.302 and in a lot of ways unhelpful, right? 00:28:55.302 --> 00:28:58.973 Like the need to create the separation between deserving and undeserving poor, 00:28:58.973 --> 00:29:01.442 and to legitimize things in that way, 00:29:01.442 --> 00:29:05.446 like without that, the need to sort of label people as disabled, 00:29:05.446 --> 00:29:08.015 how that is helpful kind of goes away. 00:29:08.015 --> 00:29:10.751 And I would never think that in the future, if we lived without capitalism 00:29:10.751 --> 00:29:14.521 that like, what I have that could be described as mental illness would go away, 00:29:14.521 --> 00:29:20.961 but I would like to live in a world where I wouldn't have to worry about like 00:29:20.961 --> 00:29:24.931 seeking, like if i needed help, seeking it because of an employer finding out 00:29:24.931 --> 00:29:28.435 because of a box you check on a form when you apply for jobs or soemthing like that. 00:29:28.435 --> 00:29:31.892 Like that aspect of it that just makes things harder, 00:29:31.892 --> 00:29:35.651 like I don't think it's utopic to talk about that going away.