As co-founder of one of the largest companies in the world do you think you have a responsibility
to speak out about issues like Internet regulation
I don't think anybody comes with a responsibility just because their company is really big
especially as I'm not the one who wanted to run a company just be a great engineer that helped start it
I don't feel that anybody has responsibility
however I do like it when well-known people they are in the public eye speak out on social issues and give their opinion
what you think about legislation like SOPA and PIPA and why do you think they were so unpopular
it turns out that the Internet when it first came it was a breath of fresh air
it was so free nobody owned the Internet space, countries didn't own it they didn't control it
it was worldwide, it was people to people, it was like we little people of the world
all of a sudden had this incredible resource and we didn't have to go through other people selling it to us and delivering it to us
that has changed a lot but still those were items that we were kind of against
just been able to use the wires to send whatever you thought of to somebody else who's a friend
or whatever sharing data so a lot of people have done that sort of thing
they have freely shared a song may be as song with the son or maybe they've shared a file
with another good friend and they don't want interference
sure it's a legal to share copyrighted material - fine there are laws in place
but these were new laws that were totally going to try and put up roadblocks
to services that had other very good purposes in our lives for example I might make a promotional video
for an interview like this and I might email it to you
well it's too big to email so I will upload it to a little site, maybe it's dropbox, maybe it's my Apple iDisk
maybe it's Megaupload, I'll upload it to a site and send you the URL
now you can download it and I do that regularly
I heard you previously talking about Kim.com's case, and you mentioned that the charges against him were pretty much phoney
elaborate more on what you meant by that
first of all he ran one of the largest file sharing services in the world so the most movies and all were being exchanged through that site
it's not a site where you could connect to it and say search for Avatar, there was no searching
somebody could upload a file and then pass out a URL on their own and their violating the law if it's copyright material like a movie
and the person who downloads it is violating the law too
but what Kim.com ran was just a service like a post office
he was the post office that it was been mailed through, why do you shut down the post office thinking that's where the problem is
it's not that was a phoney charge, they try to charge him with copyright violation himself for uploading 60 songs
but they had come off CDs he had purchased, so you see it was all these attempts that I call phoney
then they had to figure out a way to extradite him, they need is a crime that would get him five years in prison
to meet the law of the New Zealand extradition, so they made up phoney charges of racketeering
like he is some big mobster connecting a big financial empire in all these countries
I mean Apple does that but Kim.com is just such a nice, soft little guy when you meet him
who tells the truth openly, you know when someone is being truthful when you're with them personally
he doesn't hide things, he doesn't share he doesn't have concocted lines to tell
he's not a racketeer, they charge him with mail fraud because he said he deleted some files
and what he had done was delete the links to them
it's like if you have a computer and you take a file and you throw in the trash the file is still on your hard disk
it didn't really get erased the link is gone you can't find it any more by that link
so that's a phoney charge he had really got rid of the one part you could get rid of two make it look as if it was deleted
the phoney charges just indicated that they doing everything they can to make the public think
they the prosecutors are in the right, but you don't do phoney things when you're in the right you have an open and shut case
no they are having to go beyond the bounds of what's right to try and convict him
what kind of precedence do think this sets for just government overstepping
I've read a lot about how they confiscated his data files as they took them to the United States and they didn't have the right to do that
the trouble is we developed what sort of rights you have against accusers
meaning police and the prosecutors they are the accusers, presumption of innocence means the burden of proof is on the accusers
they have to prove things, you have the right to be notified of what you been charged of
you have the rights to a lot of different rights that make sure you're being treated fairly
and prosecutors and governments have found every way they can to get around those rights and that's what bothers me
if they want convicted you of something you didn't do they have an awful lot of techniques to do it - a lot of ways to do it
you founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation to protect free speech
should the principles of the first Amendment's be protected with something like WikiLeaks
free speech is not absolute in my mind, it's a very important right it has to go through considerations of did you violated in ways that might be hurt somebody else
some free-speech could actually trigger harmful events it could trigger even murders
so does murdering an abortion doctor count as free speech
no there are limits to free speech I don't know in the case of WikiLeaks, I don't know where that is going to fallout
so you think there are limitations in terms of opening or protecting all free speech online, the war on whistleblowers
well yeah free speech online, I was brought up with the belief that first Amendment was such a good thing
every one of our Bill of Rights in the United States was so crucial to my heart the way my dad taught me
but free speech meant you could say something bad about the president even, you could say something bad about you government
you have that right and we were taught you don't have that right in communist Russia so I believe that right very strongly
as far as WikiLeaks I wish I knew more about the whole case, on the surface it sounds like something that is good the whistleblower
blew the truth, the people found out what they the people had paid for
and the government says no, no the people should not know what they paid for
growing up in a generation where you seen the Internet proliferate into something so massive where political social movements are birthed online now
what do you think about just that evolution of the Internet and how Apple really played a role in expanding that to people
you know when we started the company I always go back to that point, did we have a vision of computers being prolific and in everybody hands throughout society - yes
did we have the idea that it would lead to the incredible connection of the Internet would come on board that broadband would come on board for almost everyone who wants it
and that would lead to basically the way we live life and the way we do things, everything political everything social to the way we do things with other people
is all done with your computer, on the Internet, with your iPhone, with your mobile devices
and it's a totally different world than it was when we had powerful computers but they weren't part of your life as much as now
and I'm just as happy as everybody else to see it having turned out this way
and how do you see it going to think it will still continue or do you think will see kind of a curb I mean with the political and social movements now
where everything is integrated and everything's been homogenised in the entire world
and we're seeing the Arab Spring that occupy Wall Street movement really because of social interaction
yes - I think that a lot of social interaction will be curbed, let me take that back
I fear it, I fear it will be
that the gatekeepers those who turn on and off switches, allow certain things disallow other things
allow who gets to send me data about any movie rather than everyone having equal say-so of reaching me I fear that very strongly
especially net neutrality issues like that, Internet freedom is been interfered with in major ways and it shouldn't
I think the Internet should have been considered from day one a country of its own
that isn't bound by any individual's country's laws maybe we could have had the Internet government but it didn't happen just like world government doesn't happen
you know space doesn't belong to anyone, the moon doesn't belong to anyone these are really beautiful principles in life
and as soon as a country figures out a way to get control them disappears
I am an optimist and I believe we can move more and more to net neutrality
the trouble is a lot of it has to be enforced by the government
and conservative types and libertarian types say the government shouldn't have any say or control over that
that takes away our freedom, wrong
it takes away the freedom of the companies that are taking away the freedom from us
every freedom we have in the United States, every one of them was given to us by Congressional regulation is called the Bill of Rights
that is what gives us are freedom and yet it was from the government, it was government regulation
No there are times when government regulation says you will not impede with the Internet neutrality of the users
what you think about this whole activism movement that has come out of the war on whistleblowers and the occupy Wall Street and anonymous
and you have these takedown of government websites and then you see legislation like CISPA the Cyber Intelligence, Security and Protection Act
that kind of puts a stop to these the things, you think that's kind of working as a guise and using the activism and activists to kind of regulate the Internet even more
so I really think that there are means for legitimate discourse and trying to bring attention with activists acts is wrong
on the other hand I believe very strongly in legitimising marches and that sort of stuff with the approval of the authorities there's room in our society
to go out and have a microphone and to have a say and to be heard so many others especially in this day of the Internet
so there are a lot of avenues it's just trying grab something to get on the news and I don't think that's the way to... maybe it's a start it puts ideas in people's heads
but I really don't think that's the right way to solve things
I know you've said before no one really has the responsibility to speak out about anything but why do you - Steve, why do you speak out
and why do you think so many others don't about these issues
do you know what the whole world's conflict orientated we want to take a side and fight for my side, my side might be my country, it might be my computer platform
it might be which browser I use and I take my side and everybody else's bad and I will fight them and I only want to look at world one way
and I try to be so wide and open and just trying except everything and judge it, that's the logical scientific approach don't take aside
don't be like for one religion and against others that sort of thing
thank you so much for your time
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