[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:01.12,0:00:05.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once you had to buy one of these to listen to your favorite song
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.74,0:00:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Later the discs became smaller
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.39,0:00:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and today, at a single, free click from your mouse, music flows from your speakers
Dialogue: 0,0:00:45.92,0:00:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But according to Ivan Pedersen, who became famous with this song, which he created with his band Laban in the 80s
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.49,0:00:54.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who chairs the association of danish composers and songwriters (DPA),
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.06,0:00:59.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too many people listen to music without paying for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.85,0:01:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So many that "his livelihood is vanishing", as Ivan Pedersen wrote in a recent op-ed
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.64,0:01:11.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today there's plenty of options to legally buy music online, he writes
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.56,0:01:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But nevertheless illegal filesharing and streaming accounts for 95 % of all music traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.09,0:01:25.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The day after his op-ed the number appeared in a debate at the danish parliament Christiansborg
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.15,0:01:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a meeting in the european committee, danish trade minister Pia Olsen Dyhr explains
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.53,0:01:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why Denmark will ratify the disputed ACTA treaty,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.20,0:01:37.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that aims at stopping illegal filesharing in Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.15,0:01:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to bear in mind that, I think it is 95% of all music
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.24,0:01:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is downloaded from the internet, is downloaded illegally
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.67,0:01:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Government is very concerned about illegal file-sharing
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.01,0:01:53.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Minister of Culture, Uffe Elbæk, recently called upon a number of experts to discuss
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.48,0:01:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,possible solutions to the problem.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.40,0:02:03.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of his advisors is Ivan Pedersen
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.16,0:02:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all music related internet traffic on danish IP addresses.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.48,0:02:09.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But is this true?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.61,0:02:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Lecia sings: "let's get one thing straight")
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.78,0:02:15.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, let's do that!
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.81,0:02:19.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Lecia sings: "Can you answer for your part?")
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.27,0:02:25.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But first let's sort out, what's actually legal or illegal file sharing and streaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.54,0:02:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's plenty of options when you want to listen to a song.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.25,0:02:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can buy it from renowned site like iTunes and TDC-music [a danish music service].
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.63,0:02:40.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's legal because because the provider pays the artist when he sells a song
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.36,0:02:48.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can also subscribe to a streaming service like Spotify, which gives you access to a large music library.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.40,0:02:53.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is legal because Spotify pays the artist for having his music in the library.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.20,0:03:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you can also download music for free using services such as Kazaa and Rapidshare.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.72,0:03:06.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here, thousands of users make music available,which everyone can download to their computer.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.20,0:03:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But these networks don't have agreements with the artist, who made the music, so he doesn't get a dime.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.57,0:03:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these illegal downloads should account for 95 percent of all downloads.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.04,0:03:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ivan Pedersen says that he has the number - 95 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.68,0:03:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Rights Alliance, which represents more than 52.000 danish rights holders.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.66,0:03:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And according the Rights Alliance the number is from a report made the international chapter of IFPI
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.77,0:03:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which represents the recording industry worldwide
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.84,0:03:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IFPI, however, refused to grant Detektor access to the numbers behind their report
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.08,0:03:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we cannot review it's credibility.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.52,0:03:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the interest group no longer refers to the number in their latest
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.92,0:03:56.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,report from 2012.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.98,0:04:01.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The international number of 95 percent was published
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.28,0:04:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a report in 2009 - so it's a couple of years old.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.43,0:04:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ivan Pedersen is only talking about file sharing in Denmark, and here the number can't be used at all, says IFPI Denmark
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.00,0:04:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the danish branch of the international record label interest group.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.48,0:04:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The way I see it you cannot use this number in Denmark
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.69,0:04:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the number is based on study of the global market.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.64,0:04:26.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you can't just transfer the number onto the danish market.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.65,0:04:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However there is no doubt that illegal file sharing services are a problem for the danish market.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.62,0:04:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not least because the make life harder for legal services trying to establish themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.73,0:04:42.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then how much music is actually acquired illegally?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.48,0:04:45.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Ministry of Culture actually tried to answer that question in april 2011,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.78,0:04:50.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it evaluated the the extent of digital piracy on the internet
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.79,0:04:53.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- This is a thing which is very difficult to measure.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.65,0:04:57.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Martin Nielsen from the accounting company Ernst & Young lead the project
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.10,0:05:01.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and read through numerous surveys from all over the world
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.53,0:05:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Internet is gigantic and theres an enormous amount of traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.57,0:05:09.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,requires measuring during a long period of time and you need to make sure you're dealing with a representative group.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.30,0:05:14.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To get closer to the answer it was necessary to look towards our Norwegian neighbours.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.79,0:05:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- We couldn't find any numbers from Denmark, which of course is regrettable.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.64,0:05:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The closest we could get was Norway. There, a study was completed in 2008.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.72,0:05:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,According to this study, approximately 30 million tracks were copied illegally per week.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.76,0:05:30.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which makes up approximately 55 percent to the total volume of copied tracks.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.40,0:05:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Martin Nielsen says the last three years of development on the music market have been of great significance.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.20,0:05:38.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-New streaming services make it easier to get music legally.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.84,0:05:45.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has taken away the motivation to do it illegally, so I think we are significantly below 95 percent.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.23,0:05:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is, in fact, one survey made in Denmark.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.60,0:05:56.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In November 2010 KODA made an internal study in Denmark.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.64,0:06:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The organisation, which manages musicians' rights,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.07,0:06:03.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asked a representative sample of the Danish population
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.34,0:06:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from where they had the latest track in their music collection
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.60,0:06:11.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A quarter of the interviewees replied that the latest track in their collection
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.25,0:06:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been downloaded, and roughly half of those had paid for the song.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.03,0:06:18.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which means at least half of those polled had acquired
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.59,0:06:23.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the latest track in their music collection in a lawful manner
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.25,0:06:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as for the remaining downloads which had not been paid for, you cannot say whether they are illegal or not.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.20,0:06:35.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What did I talk about? What did I have to say?"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.40,0:06:40.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"He is confused, so I dare to say ...."
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.21,0:06:42.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That there really is no documentation proving
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.08,0:06:51.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that illegal file sharing and streaming constitute 95 percent of all music traffic on danish IP-adresses.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.60,0:06:55.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome to you, Ivan Pedersen.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.00,0:07:03.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it true that illegal file sharing and streaming from Danish IP addresses constitute 95 percent of all music traffic?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.100,0:07:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I reserve the right to wise up.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.26,0:07:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I have really been taught a lesson these past few days.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.02,0:07:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The numbers used in my article 2 weeks ago turned out not to hold water.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.00,0:07:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are three years old. I got those numbers where I normally obtain sober information, about the issues I talk about.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.06,0:07:26.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I now understand that the 95% I used
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.92,0:07:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in reality were numbers describing the global situation. And three years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.56,0:07:40.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does this affect the debate on illegal streaming and downloading of songs if
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.28,0:07:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you publicly use very exaggerated numbers, which turn out not to be true?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:46.51,0:07:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It deals my opponents a stronger hand.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.36,0:07:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously this is the last time that I - out of pure anger,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.37,0:08:03.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, passion-driven argumentation - use the latest figures I have been given, just because it fits my stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.89,0:08:06.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good. Let's get out the Detektor Truth-o-meter
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.81,0:08:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have one of those here in the Studio and you may try it.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.05,0:08:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ivan Pedersen, as a spokesperson of DPA:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.26,0:08:19.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The statement that 95% of all danish music streaming and downloading is illegal
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.64,0:08:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,95% is false, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.82,0:08:30.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,According to what I have been able to gather today, it's probably half of the traffic on the Internet
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.34,0:08:38.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of music or other copyright-protected material, that happens without remunerating the creators and performers.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.79,0:08:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the 95% - it is false?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.16,0:08:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it is false.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.52,0:08:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet you placed it ...?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.43,0:08:45.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No oo, what I have been TOLD is that it is false.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.78,0:08:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Strictly speaking, I cannnot know. I have been told that the figures are not accurate,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:48.10,0:08:49.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is not the latest numbers.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.82,0:08:51.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So now that you have the opportunity and the possibility:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.96,0:08:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would you write, if you were to rewrite your op-ed in Politiken [a danish daily].
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.95,0:09:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd write "a dramatically large proportion of the traffic of copyright-protected material
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.72,0:09:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on Danish IP addresses, are not paid for".
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.92,0:09:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ivan Pedersen, thank you very much for being on the show.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.08,0:09:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're most welcome! (laughs)
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.97,0:09:12.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So far so good. But then there was the Trade Minister.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:12.08,0:09:14.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who coined it this way:
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.56,0:09:18.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's 95% of the music that's downloaded on the net,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.80,0:09:21.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is downloaded illegally.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.28,0:09:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a § 20 questions in the danish Parliament, Stine Brix from Enhedslisten asked from where the Minister has her facts.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.80,0:09:32.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pia Olsen Dyhr response to Stine Brix was that she received her information from IFPI,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.05,0:09:35.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that she did not find any reason to doubt them.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.05,0:09:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How can you use three to four year-old figures on illegal music downloads?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.81,0:09:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the figure I was given prior to our consultation in the Committee for European Affairs
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.02,0:09:51.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's unfortunate that the figure is so old.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.76,0:09:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is actually also a pity that the number is so much bigger, because it clouds
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.22,0:09:57.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a debate that should be taken seriously. Namely that you're not allowed to download illegally on the Internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.64,0:10:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just like you may not steal an orange in the supermarket
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.68,0:10:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know that there are too many who do it. Whether it's 28 or 95 percent or whatever it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.84,0:10:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is still too many.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.84,0:10:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what does it do to the debate whether it's 28% or 95% or somewhere in between?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.82,0:10:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It makes it blurred, because we need to have real numbers in debates.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.60,0:10:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's very important, actually.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.44,0:10:23.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Danish study that shows that half of all the music,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.36,0:10:28.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's downloaded from the internet, has been paid for, is newer than the one from IFPI.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.76,0:10:31.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why aren't you using a number like that instead?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.88,0:10:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First of all, because I did not know that number. That's fair and square.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.36,0:10:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Secondly, this number says nothing about how much is illegal.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.88,0:10:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we cannot necessarily conclude that the other half
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.84,0:10:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is illegal downloading just because you haven't paid for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.88,0:10:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it does, at the least, say that half is legal,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.20,0:10:48.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it can't be more than half which is illegal.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.88,0:10:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm happy to use those numbers in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.28,0:10:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, let's get out the Detektor truth-o-meter.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.96,0:10:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You may place the red dot yourself.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.72,0:11:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it true or false that 95% of all music downloads are illegal?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.96,0:11:06.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was. after all, true in 2009, when this report was made.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.80,0:11:09.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But with the development I have seen, we must of course be moving towards here,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.96,0:11:12.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, in reality, the numbers look differently today.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.60,0:11:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pia Olsen Dyhr, thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.32,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My pleasure.