For years Carter hesitated to
compose a work, a concerto,

for flute because he believed the flute

could not 'bring out the sharp attacks'
he favoured in his compositions.

Now, he's written a flute concerto after all.

Emmanuel Pahud gave the
work its world premiere

performance in September 2008

at the Jerusalem Chamber Music Festival.

Emmanuel Pahud, what kind
of a work did Carter

compose for you?

Actually, when one is confronted
with a composition that in 13 minutes

summarizes 100 years

plus perspectives looking
back as well as forwards,

from the point of view of Elliott Carter.

It is a daunting task one is faced with

and looking at such music scores
opens incredible worlds.

It's unbelievable how much one can define
as a performer while sitting at a desk

not just by trying out the piece

on one's instrument and
reading the score

but far more in the
dialogue, the connection,

between the solo instrument
and the orchestra

what worlds get opened up there.

And in this concerto, you recognize
right at the start

that the flute suddenly fills the room

with an entire cloud of
sounds, like sequins in the air.

These sounds are then
repeated by the orchestra

and alternately by different
groups of instruments

that react to each other and I too am

involved at this point and
occasionally play sounds

that, in contrast to the sounds
being played by other instruments

are picked up and
emphasized by the orchestra.

That is, the notes played
by the solo instrument,

the flute, are then
sustained by the orchestra

as a kind of sound relief
and from these sounds a harmony builds

and over and above this harmony,
a solo flute voice develops

which leads to a wonderful Cantilena
in the second part of the piece.

The piece is called a concerto
for flute and orchestra,

but I would prefer to
describe it as a nocturne

although it has the form of a concerto.

It's one long piece of music
that's clearly divided

structurally into four
different movements.

Just as with a symphony,
with the first part

and then a middle, slower part,

that you could say is more of a song

then a third part where
the cadence is free

and the flute starts out alone

and it is joined by other instruments,
mainly the drum group

and then in the end a finale marked
by a great deal of virtuosity

not only from the flute

but also from the violins
and the other instruments of the orchestra.

What Elliott Carter borrowed
from Stravinsky

was his decades-long intensive
preoccupation with rhythm.

He not only wrote essays
on the subject but

most of his work reflects
this focus on rhythm.

What is it like in the Flute Concerto?

It isn't nearly so difficult from
the point of view of rhythm

as in his earlier works

works from the 1970s and 80s when
he's already well over 70 years of age.

The works are marked
by an enormous level of complexity

but with age he seems to have
acquired a certain wisdom

inasmuch as he played with
complex rhythms a lot

where, for example a duet
for flute and clarinet,

called 'Esprit Rude, Esprit Doux'

meaning 'Rough Spirit, Kind Spirit'

this piece was composed for
Pierre Boulez sixtieth birthday.

In this piece there are
just the two instruments

but they may never play together.

The piece is very very fast,

but when the clarinet plays
five notes in a row

then the flute only plays four... or six and

the other way around as
well, the entire time

and during a performance
if you hear two sounds

played together then the
performance has failed.

It's entirely different than playing Mozart

or Beethoven, where
you hear immediately

that a mistake has been
made when it's not together.

In this case it's just the opposite,
which offers an interesting perspective

but it leads to the oddity that
when a sound finally comes together

the audience or the
musicians playing think

'finally' it's alright after all

but no, it's actually wrong.

None of that in the Flute Concerto
nor in the Piano Concerto, the Dialogues.

It's well defined who has the lead role,
the piano or the flute,

and the orchestra is in constant dialogue,

that is, we react to one
another using the same material.

The rhythmic complexity is there during
the entire development of the piece.

It appears in many different forms.

But Elliott Carter, unlike many other
composers of the younger generation,

completely rejects special effects.

Because you can get a very
sweet tone from the flute

but also very ugly sounds.

Or very windy or a very pizzicato-like sound
using the tongue to make a popping sound.

Or a clapping type of sound,
a percussive effect.

You have a lot of possibilities for effects

that you can breathe or
blow into the instrument

that create other kinds noises,
not to mention sounds.

But there's none of that with Elliott Carter.

He uses the flute... after
the opening of the concerto

which is quite scattered almost chaotic

and this chaos slowly
organizes itself into a kind of

musical language for all
the performers on the stage.

And afterward there comes an almost
neo-impressionistic musical language,

which is very suited to the flute,

especially since Debussy's
orchestral works

or Ravel's orchestral works
which have helped audiences

recognize the flute as
that type of instrument.

After the intermission, we will hear the

Concerto for Piano and
Ensemble, 'Dialogues'.

It was premiered in
London in January 2004

and this evening's soloist also
performed that world premiere.

You will be performing with the
orchestra, playing the flute,

and you are familiar with the work.

The works are very similar in
length and have a similar

ensemble of instruments,
perhaps a little smaller.

What other similarities do
you see in these two pieces?

These pieces are.....
immediately recognizable

as works by the same composer...A.

and B. - they are in the same musical style.

Elliott Carter doesn't use any exotic

instruments such as
drums, harp or keyboards

in the piano piece... because
he already has a wonderful

percussion instrument, the piano itself.

After all, it is hammers that
make the sound on the strings,

and depending how softly
or strongly the notes

are struck an unbelievable
palette of sounds unfolds.

Sometimes it sounds like Chopin
and sometimes it sounds like Bernstein.

There's a Cantilena, but it
isn't heard so much in the

solo Flute voice but rather
from the English Horn

performed beautifully by Albrecht Mayer.

And this Dialogue takes place
between

a solo instrument and the orchestra

but naturally with other ingredients.

Since a piano is not dealt
with as a solo instrument

in the same manner as a flute.

As a result the entire cosmos,
the entire constellation is there

but is seen from an entirely
other point of view.

It is as if you were to see the sky
in Berlin at midnight and then

a few hours later from Sydney.

You would see different constellations
that belong to the same cosmos,

but you would be looking at them
from another perspective.

In 1990 Elliott Carter composed a
Trio with the beautiful name

'Con Leggerezza Pensosa',
contemplative lightness.

Many of the works from
the last two decades

of Carter's oeuvre merit
similar-sounding names.

What about the two works that
we'll be hearing this evening?

Lightness and thoughtfulness...
but both together and linked

is an absolute key to
understanding these works

as well as to performing these works.

There is a composer's note in the score

'giocoso' meaning 'playful'.

and there is another 'legerissimo' note
toward the end of the Flute Concerto.

These notes recur quite often in the works.

as if to indicate a baroque
treatment, a light and

decorative way of playing the piece.

It's an indicator of the playful way
the composer sees his work.

Not taken too seriously,
and not to be made too important.

It is naturally a sign of great maturity.

and I will try, even with my
'relatively' advanced years

to adhere to the composer's notes.

You played the world
premiere of these pieces

and now you're doing
their European premiere.

You premiered the Flute Concerto
of Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie in 2006.

Just two examples of your commitment
to contemporary classical music.

What is it that draws you
so much to this music?

The music of Johann
Sebastian Bach, of his sons,

from Mozart, Schubert and Beethoven

was at one time very
new and revolutionary.

They were interested in new instruments.

And it has always been the same.

And it continues to be that way today.

The difference is that the composers also

performed their works on
the piano or violin, or viola

or improvising during
a concert performance

and then wrote out
their compositions.

The ease with which a Mozart, for example,
in just one night in Prague

composed his 'Don Giovanni' Overture
just shortly before the dress rehearsal

is something that is reflected in the

hyperactivity of a
composer like Elliott Carter.

I believe if people had
complete freedom of choice

they would always take the works of

Matthias Pintscher, Elliott Carter 
or Pierre Boulez

or Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie 
compose for example.

And I really hope that in 250 or 300 years

people will think about their
works the way we think about

the works of Mozart or Bach.

That what the composers want to
say with their works today

may be seen as visionary,
and can't be understood

without some explanation.

But you do want a kind of guide.

This language has become established

and is fully integrated in the
musical language of the classical world

as the natural further development
of the musical language of Bach or Mozart

Schubert, Brahms, Mahler, Berg, Weber,
and today... Carter.

When you're playing a new score that

no one else ever played before
you, since it is a world premiere,

is there any particular
difference to the manner

in which you prepare
compared with 'old' works?

Absolutely, when you discover a new work,

it's really like going
somewhere you've never been.

You have no idea when the ground
might fall away beneath your feet,

or how the different performers
react to one another.

Is there any kind of a cushion
between the instruments?

You don't know if you'll get the feeling
of being attacked around the next corner.

You have to be careful, especially 
on the lookout and respectful.

But once you've completely
worked your way

through the piece for the first time

and you begin to review the piece
for the second time,

it's a little like going into a museum
and seeing a new work hanging there.

It was never hanging in that room
before and now it's there.

The room feels completely different
and you are initially irritated.

But then you look at the work a little more
closely and get used to the new work

and you notice the texture of
the work, how it's put together.

And taking a few steps back
you look at the work from different angles.

And you notice 'aha, there's this aspect
or that one...' this surface, this material.

And that's exactly how we approach
a new musical work.

And the analysis of the work
takes on a form, a structure of

one has to try to find the key

to how the work is put together
it's like sentence structure

in order that it makes sense

it's all words following one anther
that make sense in some way

and it's our job as performers
to try to understand the composition

preferably without a
phone call to the composer.

That's what I was about to ask,

the advantage of working on
pieces from living composers

is naturally that you
can ask composers questions.

Does it help to talk with the composer?

I don't like too many influences
when I'm preparing a new work.

When a composer has reacted
to a suggestion to create a piece,

or he approaches us himself
with a piece he's composed

that's already quite a step.

But, then you have two 
different types of work,

the creator, the composer
making his piece

and the performer who plays 
the music or reanimates it, so to speak,

those are two very different
roles and I don't want

to have any limiting influence
on creativity of the composer.

I think the burning idea,
the cry that leads to the birth of the work,

is so very important for the whole world,
but for me as a musician

it's the only way I can move ahead.

If I give a commission
for a work to be composed,

tailor-made for me, then
no one moves ahead.

It may be a personal 'tour-de-force' that

shows off my talents but
it becomes self-serving,

and that isn't what musical
creation is supposed to be about.

My job is to serve the composition as best

I can understand and
interpret it to the world.

So a composer needs to know that
as soon as he allows a work to be printed.

It belongs to the whole world and
everyone can play it the way they'd like.

And it's like a newborn that
begins to make its way

and master its own future.