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For years Carter hesitated to
compose a work, a concerto,

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for flute because he believed the flute

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could not 'bring out the sharp attacks'
he favoured in his compositions.

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Now, he's written a flute concerto after all.

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Emmanuel Pahud gave the
work its world premiere

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performance in September 2008

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at the Jerusalem Chamber Music Festival.

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Emmanuel Pahud, what kind
of a work did Carter

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compose for you?

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Actually, when one is confronted
with a composition that in 13 minutes

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summarizes 100 years

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plus perspectives looking
back as well as forwards,

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from the point of view of Elliott Carter.

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It is a daunting task one is faced with

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and looking at such music scores
opens incredible worlds.

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It's unbelievable how much one can define
as a performer while sitting at a desk

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not just by trying out the piece

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on one's instrument and
reading the score

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but far more in the
dialogue, the connection,

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between the solo instrument
and the orchestra

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what worlds get opened up there.

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And in this concerto, you recognize
right at the start

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that the flute suddenly fills the room

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with an entire cloud of
sounds, like sequins in the air.

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These sounds are then
repeated by the orchestra

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and alternately by different
groups of instruments

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that react to each other and I too am

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involved at this point and
occasionally play sounds

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that, in contrast to the sounds
being played by other instruments

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are picked up and
emphasized by the orchestra.

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That is, the notes played
by the solo instrument,

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the flute, are then
sustained by the orchestra

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as a kind of sound relief
and from these sounds a harmony builds

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and over and above this harmony,
a solo flute voice develops

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which leads to a wonderful Cantilena
in the second part of the piece.

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The piece is called a concerto
for flute and orchestra,

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but I would prefer to
describe it as a nocturne

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although it has the form of a concerto.

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It's one long piece of music
that's clearly divided

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structurally into four
different movements.

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Just as with a symphony,
with the first part

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and then a middle, slower part,

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that you could say is more of a song

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then a third part where
the cadence is free

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and the flute starts out alone

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and it is joined by other instruments,
mainly the drum group

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and then in the end a finale marked
by a great deal of virtuosity

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not only from the flute

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but also from the violins
and the other instruments of the orchestra.

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What Elliott Carter borrowed
from Stravinsky

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was his decades-long intensive
preoccupation with rhythm.

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He not only wrote essays
on the subject but

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most of his work reflects
this focus on rhythm.

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What is it like in the Flute Concerto?

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It isn't nearly so difficult from
the point of view of rhythm

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as in his earlier works

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works from the 1970s and 80s when
he's already well over 70 years of age.

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The works are marked
by an enormous level of complexity

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but with age he seems to have
acquired a certain wisdom

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inasmuch as he played with
complex rhythms a lot

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where, for example a duet
for flute and clarinet,

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called 'Esprit Rude, Esprit Doux'

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meaning 'Rough Spirit, Kind Spirit'

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this piece was composed for
Pierre Boulez sixtieth birthday.

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In this piece there are
just the two instruments

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but they may never play together.

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The piece is very very fast,

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but when the clarinet plays
five notes in a row

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then the flute only plays four... or six and

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the other way around as
well, the entire time

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and during a performance
if you hear two sounds

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played together then the
performance has failed.

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It's entirely different than playing Mozart

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or Beethoven, where
you hear immediately

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that a mistake has been
made when it's not together.

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In this case it's just the opposite,
which offers an interesting perspective

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but it leads to the oddity that
when a sound finally comes together

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the audience or the
musicians playing think

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'finally' it's alright after all

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but no, it's actually wrong.

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None of that in the Flute Concerto
nor in the Piano Concerto, the Dialogues.

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It's well defined who has the lead role,
the piano or the flute,

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and the orchestra is in constant dialogue,

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that is, we react to one
another using the same material.

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The rhythmic complexity is there during
the entire development of the piece.

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It appears in many different forms.

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But Elliott Carter, unlike many other
composers of the younger generation,

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completely rejects special effects.

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Because you can get a very
sweet tone from the flute

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but also very ugly sounds.

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Or very windy or a very pizzicato-like sound
using the tongue to make a popping sound.

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Or a clapping type of sound,
a percussive effect.

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You have a lot of possibilities for effects

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that you can breathe or
blow into the instrument

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that create other kinds noises,
not to mention sounds.

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But there's none of that with Elliott Carter.

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He uses the flute... after
the opening of the concerto

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which is quite scattered almost chaotic

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and this chaos slowly
organizes itself into a kind of

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musical language for all
the performers on the stage.

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And afterward there comes an almost
neo-impressionistic musical language,

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which is very suited to the flute,

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especially since Debussy's
orchestral works

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or Ravel's orchestral works
which have helped audiences

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recognize the flute as
that type of instrument.

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After the intermission, we will hear the

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Concerto for Piano and
Ensemble, 'Dialogues'.

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It was premiered in
London in January 2004

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and this evening's soloist also
performed that world premiere.

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You will be performing with the
orchestra, playing the flute,

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and you are familiar with the work.

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The works are very similar in
length and have a similar

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ensemble of instruments,
perhaps a little smaller.

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What other similarities do
you see in these two pieces?

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These pieces are.....
immediately recognizable

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as works by the same composer...A.

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and B. - they are in the same musical style.

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Elliott Carter doesn't use any exotic

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instruments such as
drums, harp or keyboards

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in the piano piece... because
he already has a wonderful

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percussion instrument, the piano itself.

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After all, it is hammers that
make the sound on the strings,

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and depending how softly
or strongly the notes

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are struck an unbelievable
palette of sounds unfolds.

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Sometimes it sounds like Chopin
and sometimes it sounds like Bernstein.

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There's a Cantilena, but it
isn't heard so much in the

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solo Flute voice but rather
from the English Horn

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performed beautifully by Albrecht Mayer.

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And this Dialogue takes place
between

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a solo instrument and the orchestra

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but naturally with other ingredients.

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Since a piano is not dealt
with as a solo instrument

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in the same manner as a flute.

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As a result the entire cosmos,
the entire constellation is there

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but is seen from an entirely
other point of view.

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It is as if you were to see the sky
in Berlin at midnight and then

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a few hours later from Sydney.

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You would see different constellations
that belong to the same cosmos,

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but you would be looking at them
from another perspective.

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In 1990 Elliott Carter composed a
Trio with the beautiful name

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'Con Leggerezza Pensosa',
contemplative lightness.

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Many of the works from
the last two decades

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of Carter's oeuvre merit
similar-sounding names.

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What about the two works that
we'll be hearing this evening?

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Lightness and thoughtfulness...
but both together and linked

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is an absolute key to
understanding these works

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as well as to performing these works.

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There is a composer's note in the score

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'giocoso' meaning 'playful'.

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and there is another 'legerissimo' note
toward the end of the Flute Concerto.

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These notes recur quite often in the works.

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as if to indicate a baroque
treatment, a light and

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decorative way of playing the piece.

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It's an indicator of the playful way
the composer sees his work.

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Not taken too seriously,
and not to be made too important.

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It is naturally a sign of great maturity.

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and I will try, even with my
'relatively' advanced years

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to adhere to the composer's notes.

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You played the world
premiere of these pieces

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and now you're doing
their European premiere.

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You premiered the Flute Concerto
of Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie in 2006.

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Just two examples of your commitment
to contemporary classical music.

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What is it that draws you
so much to this music?

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The music of Johann
Sebastian Bach, of his sons,

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from Mozart, Schubert and Beethoven

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was at one time very
new and revolutionary.

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They were interested in new instruments.

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And it has always been the same.

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And it continues to be that way today.

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The difference is that the composers also

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performed their works on
the piano or violin, or viola

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or improvising during
a concert performance

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and then wrote out
their compositions.

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The ease with which a Mozart, for example,
in just one night in Prague

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composed his 'Don Giovanni' Overture
just shortly before the dress rehearsal

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is something that is reflected in the

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hyperactivity of a
composer like Elliott Carter.

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I believe if people had
complete freedom of choice

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they would always take the works of

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Matthias Pintscher, Elliott Carter 
or Pierre Boulez

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or Marc-AndrĂŠ Dalbavie 
compose for example.

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And I really hope that in 250 or 300 years

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people will think about their
works the way we think about

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the works of Mozart or Bach.

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That what the composers want to
say with their works today

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may be seen as visionary,
and can't be understood

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without some explanation.

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But you do want a kind of guide.

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This language has become established

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and is fully integrated in the
musical language of the classical world

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as the natural further development
of the musical language of Bach or Mozart

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Schubert, Brahms, Mahler, Berg, Weber,
and today... Carter.

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When you're playing a new score that

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no one else ever played before
you, since it is a world premiere,

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is there any particular
difference to the manner

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in which you prepare
compared with 'old' works?

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Absolutely, when you discover a new work,

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it's really like going
somewhere you've never been.

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You have no idea when the ground
might fall away beneath your feet,

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or how the different performers
react to one another.

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Is there any kind of a cushion
between the instruments?

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You don't know if you'll get the feeling
of being attacked around the next corner.

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You have to be careful, especially 
on the lookout and respectful.

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But once you've completely
worked your way

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through the piece for the first time

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and you begin to review the piece
for the second time,

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it's a little like going into a museum
and seeing a new work hanging there.

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It was never hanging in that room
before and now it's there.

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The room feels completely different
and you are initially irritated.

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But then you look at the work a little more
closely and get used to the new work

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and you notice the texture of
the work, how it's put together.

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And taking a few steps back
you look at the work from different angles.

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And you notice 'aha, there's this aspect
or that one...' this surface, this material.

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And that's exactly how we approach
a new musical work.

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And the analysis of the work
takes on a form, a structure of

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one has to try to find the key

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to how the work is put together
it's like sentence structure

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in order that it makes sense

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it's all words following one anther
that make sense in some way

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and it's our job as performers
to try to understand the composition

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preferably without a
phone call to the composer.

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That's what I was about to ask,

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the advantage of working on
pieces from living composers

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is naturally that you
can ask composers questions.

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Does it help to talk with the composer?

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I don't like too many influences
when I'm preparing a new work.

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When a composer has reacted
to a suggestion to create a piece,

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or he approaches us himself
with a piece he's composed

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that's already quite a step.

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But, then you have two 
different types of work,

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the creator, the composer
making his piece

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and the performer who plays 
the music or reanimates it, so to speak,

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those are two very different
roles and I don't want

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to have any limiting influence
on creativity of the composer.

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I think the burning idea,
the cry that leads to the birth of the work,

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is so very important for the whole world,
but for me as a musician

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it's the only way I can move ahead.

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00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,000
If I give a commission
for a work to be composed,

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tailor-made for me, then
no one moves ahead.

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It may be a personal 'tour-de-force' that

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shows off my talents but
it becomes self-serving,

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and that isn't what musical
creation is supposed to be about.

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My job is to serve the composition as best

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I can understand and
interpret it to the world.

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So a composer needs to know that
as soon as he allows a work to be printed.

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It belongs to the whole world and
everyone can play it the way they'd like.

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And it's like a newborn that
begins to make its way

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and master its own future.