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After the break, welcome back to the discussion.

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Now all three of you, Pervez Hoodhboy, Shaukat Hameed Khan and Agha Waqar, are unanimous

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that hydrogen gas can be produced from water.

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- Yes it can happen. It's been known for very long.

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- Now you are saying that hydrogen gas can be produced from water, but the procedure is very expensive?

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- Very expensive.

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- Is this an expensive procedure or will you make it cheaper?

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- First of all, I will say to Mr. Hoodhboy who accuses me of not having studied science,

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that I will give two examples that he should study. I have brought them with me here.

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The biggest scientist who introduced this "free of energy", that is Max Karl Planck.

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Okay? In 1900. [br]- Free of? What did you say?

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- The forms of "free of energy" that he had said...

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In 1900, Max Karl Planck, in his famous black-body radiation experiment, he did the "quantum (?) revolution".

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The basic thesis of this, it's on the Internet,

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is that there are many hidden forces in this universe, which are called "resonance".

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With this resonance it is possible to give motion to hydrogen,

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and to all forces to which you want to give motion, it can be given using resonance.

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Here it is. Either Prof. Hoodhboy is a bigger scientist ...

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- Hang on. So in 1900...[br]- He said it in 1900, then in 1901...

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- So over 100 years have passed. Why is it that no scientist has understood it before?

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- Why not? He wrote in it clearly, that there are very few scientists who have knowledge of this thing.

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And I'm giving you a link to America's Harvard University. Read it, study it.

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There is a clear energy that is cheap energy, <i>"free energy"</i>. This is all given here.

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I advise the doctor (Prof. Hoodhboy) to read it. If he is near a computer, look it up on the Internet.

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He is saying it will be expensive. This will make energy cheap!

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And I give him the example that when we do electrolysis, we give it a DC current from the car.

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Along with the DC current, we apply resonance, which is a law.

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The law of resonance is that if you are taking 10 volts then you "step it up" and make it do the work of 100 volts.

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When 100 volts are applied to water, then it will break down like crazy.

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Listen to what I'm saying. Let me keep talking.

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This is not costly. The car from which we take 12 volts, our cathode and anode work as a capacitor in it.

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We pass resonance through it. Through resonance we step up the voltage.

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- I think, Dr Pervez Hoodhboy, the best way to go forward is that we should wait for his furnished water kit.

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Once it arrives... [br]- No, you should even assess it theoretically!

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- So we will fit it in your car and my car and test it. And we'll examine the fumes also. What do you think?

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- I am proving it to the doctor theoretically.

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- Mr. Hamid Mir, give me an opportunity.

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I am so extremely astounded after hearing these words.

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I have been teaching this subject for fourty years: thermodynamics and statistical mechanics,

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and I know very well what the meaning of 'free energy' is.

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This person who is sitting in front of you... I am astounded that such an exhibition of ignorance

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is taking place on a Pakistani TV station.

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It is utter nonsense -- <i>utter</i> nonsense.

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Let me say, each and every word of this person is wrong.

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And such a fraud is being played on Pakistan and Pakistan's government,

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and it gives me pain that even educated people are falling for this fraud. It is not possible that...

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- Was Max Karl Planck a fraud, who said that there is such a thing as free energy?

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Is the link I gave you from Harvard University a fraud?

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- Even children know that water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen,

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but to break up the water you need energy. Where will that energy come from? It can't come from a battery.

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- I've been telling you where it comes from. [br] - Where is it coming from?

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- It is coming from the battery. We're taking 12 volts from the battery. We're stepping up the battery ...

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- If you are taking it from the battery then it will immediately become weak?

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- No it won't. If the car has an engine then the engine will recharge the battery.