With Hidden Camera in Swedish Mosques, SVT's Mission Investigation

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Mission: Investigation
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There are today around 400,000 Muslims in Sweden.
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And the struggle for society is to integrate and build bridges to Islam.
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The most important mosque in Sweden, in Medborgarplatsen, Stockholm, has been visited by many well-known politicians.
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But how do the leaders, the imams in the mosques, relate to basic values in Sweden's democracy,
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such as the value of every human being, equality, and parity between men and women.
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This is the official picture that is given.
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Of course in this mosque, everyone has to know that, as I have repeated several times, this (mosque) follows Swedish laws and that no one is allowed to say anything against those laws.
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Are they honest, when it comes to for example, the viewpoint on women's position as opposed to men?
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Our reporter Nadja Yllner has sought the help of two Muslim women in niqab
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to see and hear what imams in 10 Swedish mosques say they should do
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when told among other things that the man has several wives, and has mistreated his wife.
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Two women are going to help us to find out if there are Muslim leaders
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who are spreading values in their congregations which they perhaps would not admit to publicly.
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One of them is equipped with a hidden camera, the other with a microphone.
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The idea is that they should ask for advice and hear what the imams say when they think
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that it's just two believing Muslim women who are listening.
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The women are going to contact 10 of Sweden's largest mosques.
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We have chosen mosques spread out over the whole country,
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which have many attendees, and so are influential in Sweden, which has been called the world's most equal society.
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Imams' Advice
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It was here in Rinkeby and Tensta that we thought of this investigation.
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Here, three Muslim congregations plan to build a mosque each, with space for up to a 1000 people in each.
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And when women want to pray? Can they join in, in the large space?
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No, the women's section is here, and it's the same as the other.
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Ibrahim Bourale is the chairman of the Islamic Association in Järva, and responsible for one
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of the planned mosques.
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And it continues here?
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Yes, we will see if...
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We live here in Sweden, we are Swedish Muslims
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and we feel that we deserve to have a space to have good services and activities.
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And one floor up we have the women's section, and here...
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The politicians trust the Islamic Association in Järva, which has received the best plot of land.
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Bo Sundin, chairman of Rinkeby-Kista district
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We have a long history of co-operation with them in many areas
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because we have found out that they are a serious and very active actor working to become a part of Swedish society here.
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Today the congregation hold Friday prayers in the Rinkeby people's hall.
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Arabic: Oh Lord, let us die in your faith, and summon us among your people...
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The female visitors do not want us to film them.
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They go in the back way and then up to the gallery.
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There they sit in crowded rows, but they can never see the imam they are listening to,
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since the curtain hangs down in front of them.
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...is a big problem, it can lead to that one lives in phobia and fear
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What struck me when I came here was how many men there were everywhere.
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It was possible to go to a restaurant and not see a single woman.
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In one restaurant I was invited to sit behind drapery in a room specially for women.
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In another restaurant, a man gestured with his hand to the table further back where he thought we women
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should sit.
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I spoke with a woman who was spat at because her shawl wasn't long enough.
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I heard about others who had begun to use headscarves so they could continue to live in the area.
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Here it is easy to find men who think that God gives them the right to marry several women.
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One has to be just with all, good standard of living, good life for all, this is our religion which says this.
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I have four.
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You have four wives?
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Yes.
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No! Is that true?
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It's true.
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How does it go?
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It's good.
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But how does it work? You can only marry one person here in Sweden.
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No, four is normal for Muslims.
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I have papers with me.
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Can I see?
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In Swedish law, it's only one, four is not possible.
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In the papers from the Population Registry are the names of the four women who had borne his children.
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Only one is registered as his wife.
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The others he had married while abroad.
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But why do you do this?
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It's normal.
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You don't think its a problem?
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It is, it's a big problem.
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You don't think this is right?
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No, I don't like this. It's never right if you have four wives.
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They will be jealous of each other and then there are problems with the children.
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Islam does not say this. Islam does not say this. It isn't like this.
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Many say they know just what Islam is, but just as in Christianity there is in Islam both new interpreters and literalists
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There are imams who are reminiscent of the ex-Archbishop Hammar who spoke out for the rights of homosexuals,
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and imams more like Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green who states that homosexuality is a cancer in the body of society.
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If you compare ex-Archbishop Hammar and Pastor Ulf Ekman and Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green,
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none of them believe the same thing, though they are part of the same religion and the same interpretative tradition.
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One takes it for granted. That's how it is. But not with Muslims, they are all lumped in to one group and people say "that's how they are."
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Professor Mohammad Fazlhashemi has written books on
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how Islam has changed through history.
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He is himself a believing Muslim and prays daily.
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But he believes that Islam, precisely like Christianity, must adjust itself to the time we live in
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and he doesn't like seeing the literalists message spreading.
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At the same time he is afraid that his criticism could be abused by anti-immigrant hostile forces.
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It's a delicate balance between extremes, because this is about extremes.
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We have the anti-immigrant islamophobes on one side
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and on the other the literalist traditionalists.
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Akhdar, as she calls herself, is herself a believing Muslim.
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She grew up in a Muslim country and knows the religious codes.
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The other woman calls herself Mahnaz, she comes from the same country but she has left Islam.
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Together they will contact 10 mosques and try to get a response to these 4 questions:
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1. Can a man marry more than one woman?
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2. Does a woman have the right to by herself decide over her own body and refuse to have sex with her husband?
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3. Can a man hit his wife? 4. And if he does can she ring the police?
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The questions will show whether some of Sweden's largest mosques try to take away from women
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rights they have according to Swedish laws.
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They will begin by contacting two congregations in Rinkeby which have both
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been given plots from Stockholm with the possibility to build a mosque each.
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If it is so that there are imams in these congregations who say that you as a woman must accept
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that your husband can marry more than one, what would that mean?
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It isn't acceptable. We live in Sweden and that isn't acceptable.
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Would you want to co-operate with them then?
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No, but we co-operate with them because they don't have that viewpoint.
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If the imams say you have to have sex with your husband except if you have your period or you are ill...
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This is completely alien to me. It sounds very strange.
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If it comes up in these organizations...
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In that case it would be single individuals who have these viewpoints and it must be brought into the light
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to make sure that it is minimized.
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Akhdar begins by ringing the spokesperson for the Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby Square.
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Akhdar says that her husband was in Iran and married another woman, that she feels terrible and needs to talk with an imam.
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I will give you a number you can call and you can come in as well.
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Many women are in the same situation, I promise you.
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They are my sisters.
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They say they are happy. I even know of a woman whose husband married again and they help each other!
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It will be a while before she can meet the imam at Rinkeby Square, an imam whose response is different from the others.
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The Women's Network in Stockholm helps women and youngsters
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who are exposed to honor violence and oppression.
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Here no one knows about the two women unknown to them with the hidden camera.
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But when we ask these women how they would react if they
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heard an imam say it is acceptable to have several wives or that a woman is obliged to have sex against
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her will, it seems no one would be surprised.
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I would not at all be surprised.
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Azam Qaraee, Women's Network
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Because again, according to the religion, the woman is made for the man.
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And if she says anything against this, then it's "poor man."
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One of the girls who has been given shelter by the network
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was mistreated by the family and forcibly removed when she was 16.
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Now she is 21 and has a job but the pressure from home has not let up.
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Her father is deeply religious and often asks the imam what is right and what is wrong.
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In front of me the imam says to my father, "it is not okay that your daughter comes home late. She can't go out and be with boys."
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"She can't have a boyfriend, it is not allowed."
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But the imam says this to your father, when you are listening?
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And in front of me, yes.
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What do you think of that?
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I think it is unprofessional and low.
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For me it means that he doesn't know what life in the real world means.
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But the imam stated that your father should guide you, who is 21 years old?
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Yes, and my mother as well, who is 53 years.
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The imams have an extreme influence, if they recognize that a woman's sexuality belongs to the woman herself
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and no brother or father can decide, and we have never seen anyone who says this, and we miss it..
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the day we find an imam or religious leader who says this then I think we would soon be
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finished with these problems.
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Even ethnic Swedes sometimes come to the Women's Network, but then they
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belong to Christian sects such as Jehova's Witness.
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There are Christian sects here in Sweden where we have youngsters with the exact same virginity standards, controls,
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that individuals cannot think or choose themselves, it is the exact same thing.
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It is important that the women are not recognized, this is why they are going in niqab.
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They will play two different roles. Akhdar is the weak and abused but deeply religious woman,
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Mahnaz is her stronger relative, who thinks there should be limits for what a woman should endure.
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With one exception all the congregations we contacted have directly or indirectly taken money from society.
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Half had municipal grants, 5 of 10 had religious community grants from the state.
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This is a grant that has its own law, which says that:
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"Support should only be granted to religious communities which contribute to uphold and strengthen society's basic values."
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This means that among other things the community should "develop understanding of equality between
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men and women."
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There is only one religious community that has not accepted state grants and that is Jehovah's Witness.
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They receive no money as they call their members not to vote.
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If a community openly states that men can marry several wives, this could lead to state grants being taken away.
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It was in Rinkeby we had the idea to do our investigation and it is here we thought the women's' journey would begin.
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But when they arrive in Rinkeby and the Islamic Association in Järva, they don't get to meet any imam.
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I can't give you a name, but if you go for example to Medborgarplatsen's big mosque...
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They are told to go to Stockholm's mosque at Medborgarplatsen instead.
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Stockholm's mosque is Sweden's Muslims' most visible face to the outside world.
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It is here government representatives go when they want to meet representatives of Sweden's Muslims.
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Last February, the civil minister Stefan Attefall attended Friday prayers.
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The women go into Stockholm mosque's family counseling.
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The imam who is there sits there every day between 2 and 4 o'clock.
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Now we will hear what he has to say.
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Each Muslim is allowed to have up to four wives, but there is a requirement.
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The requirement is to be able to support them and give them love.
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I mean that he should not treat one wife better than the others.
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He should love them equally, and treat them with what is it called...equality.
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Live equally with them. Do you understand?
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Yes.
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Can you listen now...so, if he does this, it is okay. I mean if he wants to.
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But it is very difficult. He gets very angry with me.
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If I say anything he gets angry and hits me.
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And the neighbor saw that I had...what is it called...sakhm (bruises).
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She had big yellow bruises over her body.
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He is not allowed to hit her. He is not allowed to hit her at all.
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But he says that the Quran says that if the woman does not listen to her husband, the man can hit his wife.
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He can only do a little like this, with his hand like this, where it doesn't hurt.
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Just like this. Watch now.
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He can only say "I am angry with you."
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Not hit, not hit and hit.
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Now the imam knows that Akhdar's husband has done two things which are illegal in Sweden.
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He has mistreated his wife and married two women.
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But still the imam says Akhdar should not refuse to have sex with him.
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No, she is not allowed to do that.
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But love must come from the heart, this doesn't work.
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It does. Why doesn't it work?
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Because I can't think that my husband can marry a younger woman and that he has done this.
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But why does he want to love her then, why didn't he leave her?
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Why does he want to have her? It means he loves her as well.
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This can't be.
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A man can love four at the same time.
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But she told me that the last time she was badly mistreated and she almost rang the police.
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What do you think? What should I do?
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If you ring the police it can get a little difficult. Do you know why?
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The police will take him into custody and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison.
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If she rings the police while he is in prison and says, "OK, I've forgiven him, release him from prison."
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The police would say no, he has to remain the whole year. Do you understand me?
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The imam at Sweden's most important mosque tells a mistreated woman not to ring the police.
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Instead he suggests she should give the man more love.
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You can welcome him in a good way and so on and don't refuse him love.
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He might change. He will perhaps change.
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Thank you.
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If the imam in your mosque had said to a woman when she comes to say that her husband had married again
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and the imam then says you have to respect that as long as he treats you equally...
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how would you react?
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With anger and dismay. Because this is against the law.
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Thank you, God willing. Thanks. Peace be with you.
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But if there are imams at the biggest mosque in Sweden who say its better not to go to the police
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what happens then?
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I think that this person should be punished for misconduct. This clearly goes against the law.
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The women's journey continues to Örebro's mosque.
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Over 10,000 people come here every Friday.
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It is not good to ring the police. The police don't do anything.
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The police come and say to the man, get out, and you go to court and divorce.
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So the family will split up. Muslims don't want to split families.
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We want to hold together as a family.
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Yes.
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She is a religious woman.
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So she must know that God allows men to marry with two, three, four.
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He wanted to love her and she is very sad. She refuses to love him. What does the Quran say?
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That is wrong. She must accept.
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She?
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She must have patience then.
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Yes. She must accept.
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If her husband wants love and she says no, that is wrong.
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When they come to the third mosque, the Islamic centre in Malmö, they meet an imam who is just leaving.
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Excuse me.
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Akhdar doesn't have time to ask all her questions.
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But she says that her husband married another woman and
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that she doesn't know what to do because he hits her.
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Roland Vishkurti, Islamic Center in Malmö
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Not the police. You are a Muslim and will have big problems.
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They might take the children away from you as well.
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One time he hit me and the neighbor heard.
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The Swedish just say, "Ring the police, ring the police."
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Yes, in Swedish culture you should ring the police.
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But ask other imams.
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Woman: One has to be patient.
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Patience and prayer.
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The imam commented on the recording saying that he had been misunderstood.
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That he would never defend someone who had mistreated another
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and that he is not a person who doesn't stand up for the weak.
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God help you. Peace be with you.
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When Akhdar rang to the mosque family counselor, it was different.
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He thought she should herself decide if it felt right that she should ring the police.
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The fourth mosque they visited is called Salsabil and is in a normal private property in Malmö.
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They are referred to an Egyptian sheikh who thinks Akhdar should have patience with her husband
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even though he had hit her and married another.
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During the meeting, there is a mosque member who translates
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and reports what the sheikh has said.
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As long as your husband doesn't do anything haram,
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you should never never think of going to the police.
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It would be a big sin.
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I don't want to do it. It's wrong.
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Instead of telling her to go to the police
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he says this:
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How many times has he hit you? 20 times? 30 times?
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One time per year? You see this is not beating.
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Sometimes people get angry. Has he pushed you?
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Do you have any more questions, sister? The sheikh has to go.
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God keep you.
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Afterwards he says that the advice not to go to the police had to do with her husband marrying another.
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He also says that he doesn't want to belittle violence.
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But that a light joking slap on the backside is not beating.
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When we say that we would make him anonymous, since he was only a member in the community, he protests
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and asks to be identified by name.
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The mosque distances itself from his statement.
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This stems from a patriarchal tradition. It is not allowed.
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It should not be allowed, for a woman to endure this kind of humiliation.
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Saudia Arabia is a country where gender separation is the system and laws from the middle ages guide women's lives.
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Wahabism, as the state religion is called, allows no new interpretations of the Quran.
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Those who leave Islam can be punished by death.
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Saudi Arabia and Saudi businessmen and princes
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spread in different ways these ultra-orthodox interpretative traditions through the world.
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Among other things through handing out stipends
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and educate imams who then work in other countries.
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When the women come to the fifth mosque, Uppsala
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they are greeted by a man who was educated in the Islamic university in Medina in Saudi Arabia.
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He tells Akhdar, who he knows has been mistreated by her husband, to go one step further in humiliation.
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Her neighbor told her, "if he hits you again,
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you have to ring the police!"
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That's why he is angry. He thinks she says bad things.
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But I think you can go to your husband and say
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"I'm sorry if I have made a mistake, let's start over."
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I should apologize.
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"We will forget what has is past!"
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There is a very nice hadith, "the real woman, when her husband is angry, holds his hands and
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says, I cannot sleep till you are pleased with me."
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Do you think God will forgive?
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Yes, God willing. You have to struggle.
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God willing, your husband will accept.
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I will apologize and hope that God helps me.
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That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous.
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I won't ring the police.
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No, don't ring the police.
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God helps us.
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It was also Saudi Arabia which gave Gothenburg's Muslims
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their own real mosque. Those who took the 6 million said that the money was not tied to any conditions.
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Now the mosque has an imam who is educated in Great Britain and in Saudi Arabia.
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There is no difference between sexes.
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Of course, in front of God they have the same rights and same responsibilities.
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Is it misunderstandings then?
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If some think that a man can marry several?
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Yes.
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All this with woman's oppression. I think a lot of this is myth and it is the spreading of propaganda against Islam.
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He agrees that the woman herself has the right to decide over her body but says that both the man and the woman
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have to listen to each other.
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It says, they should listen to their husband. How long?
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There are limits. He can't request something from her God has forbidden.
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Or something which is harmful for her. Or violates her personhood.
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He absolutely can't do that.
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Now the women will find out what the imam says when he does not know
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that a camera is on.
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How would it be now?
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Can a man take another wife?
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She doesn't want to do anything that is haram.
34:33 - 34:36

No, I understand, I understand.
34:36 - 34:42

I think if you have a real reason
34:42 - 34:47

you can demand an explanation.
34:47 - 35:02

You can't demand that he should divorce the other woman. If he has done it the right way you can't demand that.
35:02 - 35:08

Akhdar must now for the seventh time hear that she must share her husband with another woman.
35:08 - 35:13

And she should not turn a few slaps into a big deal.
35:13 - 35:22

I think if you are scared for your life...but he is not like that, is he, your husband? No, no.
35:22 - 35:29

So I don't think she needs to ring the police, since she says it is not serious.
35:29 - 35:35

He just hits me like this since I would not love him.
35:35 - 35:44

This is something which can be solved within the family so I don't think it is serious.
35:44 - 35:49

What about love in bed?
35:49 - 35:54

Can you ring me?
35:54 - 35:59

The last question which they are to talk about over the phone is about sex.
35:59 - 36:06

The imam had said that a man cannot violate a woman's personhood.
36:06 - 36:10

But what will he say to Akhdar?
36:10 - 36:18

Can the man who hit her and who married another still have a right to her body?
36:18 - 36:24

I have read a few books about this
36:24 - 36:32

and there are two ways a woman can say No.
36:32 - 36:38

When she is ill she can say no, and there is nothing wrong with that.
36:38 - 36:44

And the second way is when she has her period.
36:44 - 36:51

These are the two times you can say no.
36:51 - 36:56

When we revealed our hidden recording, the imam says that he meant that both the man and the woman
36:56 - 37:03

should fulfill each other's sexual needs if there is no obstacle such as sickness or menstruation,
37:03 - 37:09

and that family conflicts should first be resolved within the family and authorities should only be involved
37:09 - 37:12

in serious cases.
37:14 - 37:22

I think that people have come into contact with ideas of equality and this relationship between men
37:22 - 37:33

and women, and that there is a large population that does not want this type of "Imam."
37:33 - 37:40

Yes, this is good. Equal rights. That purple one.
37:40 - 37:43

And there is opposition among Muslims.
37:43 - 37:46

Azam and the others at the Women's Network
37:46 - 37:50

have gone to Tensta to demonstrate on International Women's Day.
37:50 - 37:53

"We don't accept that our daughters and sisters should
37:53 - 37:57

be mistreated and murdered for having a boyfriend,
37:57 - 38:09

or are no longer virgins. We want our children to grow up to be equal individuals."
38:12 - 38:24

And in January, Rinkeby's people's house was full of deeply religious Somali Sufis, who protested by celebrating Mawlid
38:24 - 38:36

Mohammad's birthday, which is as forbidden among the ultra-orthodox Muslims as Christmas is for Jehova's Witnesses.
38:36 - 38:45

They call themselves Muslims and say they have the same prophet as we do.
38:45 - 38:48

But they have interpreted everything falsely.
38:48 - 38:57

We think they are spreading false ideas and information especially to women and children.
38:57 - 39:03

In London, the Sufi's are called the quiet majority's voice.
39:03 - 39:08

They are known for their tolerance and they think religion should be a private thing,
39:08 - 39:16

as well as challenging the religious leaders who are spreading Saudi Arabia's ultra orthodox interpretations
39:16 - 39:21

of Islam.
39:21 - 39:27

Only we who are educated in religion but who don't share their beliefs can understand.
39:27 - 39:33

They use different methods to deal with different people.
39:33 - 39:35

How do you mean?
39:35 - 39:41

When they meet with Swedish authorities they say what they think they want to hear.
39:41 - 39:49

It is the same in Britain and Arab countries.
39:54 - 39:59

We end our journey with those we rang first.
39:59 - 40:03

The Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby.
40:03 - 40:06

It took a while for the women to get an appointment with the imam.
40:06 - 40:14

But now he is waiting for them, one late Friday night in Rinkeby Square.
40:14 - 40:25

We have also heard that it is here that the most hardline interpretations of the Quran are spread.
40:25 - 40:28

I say that when we speak about religion
40:28 - 40:31

we have to talk about everything.
40:31 - 40:40

If I am going to lie with her one night, then I lie with the other the second night, if she is there.
40:40 - 40:45

It has to be equal.
40:45 - 40:50

Just as the other imams, he says her husband under certain circumstances has the right to marry
40:50 - 40:53

with several women.
40:53 - 40:59

But when he finds out that the man hits her,
40:59 - 41:01

the women get a reply they have not heard before.
41:01 - 41:04

If he does this, she has the right to report him to the police.
41:04 - 41:07

This is the most important thing.
41:07 - 41:10

Will he go to prison?
41:10 - 41:13

It doesn't matter.
41:13 - 41:19

I think the last word is that you have to report him to the police.
41:19 - 41:29

Everything he says, doesn't belong in the religion. Understood?
41:31 - 41:35

The result was the opposite of what we expected.
41:35 - 41:40

In the small mosque which has a reputation for hardline Islamism
41:40 - 41:50

we found the first Imam who says to Akhdar that she must report her husband to the police.
41:50 - 41:57

In the really big mosque, where the Swedish ministers go,
41:57 - 42:02

the woman is told to give total submission.
42:02 - 42:15

"Don't refuse to give love to him, maybe he will change."
42:15 - 42:21

We have now asked our questions to all 10 mosques.
42:21 - 42:23

We visited 7 of these.
42:23 - 42:24

The other 3 we phoned.
42:24 - 42:29

Now we know which interpretations of Islam they are spreading.
42:29 - 42:35

No mosque says that the Quran gives a man the right to beat his wife.
42:35 - 42:44

But according to one mosque, he has the right to do this (man demonstrates)
42:44 - 42:54

6 of the 10 say that a Muslim woman is obligated to have sex with her husband even against her will.
42:54 - 42:59

"She must accept, she must accept."
42:59 - 43:07

6 mosques say that the woman should not go to the police if the man hits her.
43:07 - 43:14

They think the problem should be resolved in the family, perhaps with the help of an imam.
43:14 - 43:21

"Not the police. You are Muslim and will have a lot of problems. They might take away your children."
43:21 - 43:29

In one mosque, there is a mixed statement, another gives us a weak answer.
43:29 - 43:37

Only 2 say that the woman should definitely report the mistreatment to the police.
43:37 - 43:46

In 9 mosques we were told that the man under certain circumstances could marry several women.
43:46 - 43:50

"He can marry another. It is not haram."
43:50 - 43:55

"It is allowed to have up to four wives."
43:55 - 44:04

Only one says the man can't do this and that one must follow Swedish law in Sweden.
44:08 - 44:17

How many of the 400,000 Muslims in Sweden do you think agree with these imams who say it should be resolved within the family,
44:17 - 44:21

and have sex against your will, and accept your husband marrying another?
44:21 - 44:34

It is difficult to say, but spontaneously I would say very few. Very few would go along with this kind of humiliation.
44:34 - 44:36

But these are the spokespeople for the whole group?
44:36 - 44:41

Yes. This is the problem.
44:48 - 44:56

You can go on our website and chat about the report with Nadia Yllner and Sanna Klinghoffer.
44:59 - 45:03

I am going to visit several of the mosques where we recorded secretly.
45:03 - 45:09

First, the most important in Sweden. Stockholm's mosque in Medborgarplatsen.
45:09 - 45:16

A spokesperson for the Islamic Association, Abdallah Saleh, will answer the questions.
45:16 - 45:20

The five o'clock prayer meeting has just ended.
45:20 - 45:24

We meet on the top floor.
45:24 - 45:35

The politics of this mosque and interpretation of Islam fits in perfectly with Swedish society and to Sweden.
45:35 - 45:42

Swedish society's basic values are democracy, equality, parity between man and woman.
45:42 - 45:45

Does this clash with what you teach?
45:45 - 45:50

I think everything you have mentioned is part of Islam.
45:50 - 45:53

We don't have any problems with them.
45:53 - 45:55

So men and women have equal rights?
45:55 - 45:59

They each have their roles and they complete each other.
45:59 - 46:05

But when it comes to rights, there is no difference.
46:05 - 46:06

No difference.
46:06 - 46:11

We follow Sweden's laws. Stockholm's mosque is in Stockholm, in Sweden
46:11 - 46:14

and it is under Swedish laws.
46:14 - 46:21

If a man mistreats and abuses his wife, should she report it to the police?
46:21 - 46:24

She? Of course.
46:24 - 46:29

That's how it is. That's what you say when you give advice to women?
46:29 - 46:34

If someone came to ask me that is what I would answer, of course.
46:34 - 46:43

I told Abdallah Saleh that two women had come to the mosque's family counselor, the imam Mahmud Adam
46:43 - 46:49

and after the woman had spoken about her husband having another wife, and that she had been given the
46:49 - 46:53

advice to accept this, since the man has the right to four wives.
46:53 - 47:07

They also said that the man had mistreated the woman, and he replied that she should still not refuse him sex and not report it to the police.
47:07 - 47:13

I think it is an individual question, for each person. God created us free.
47:13 - 47:22

Every person who is mistreated by another, it is she or he who decides what they should do.
47:22 - 47:28

They should not wait for an imam or minister to tell them what to do.
47:28 - 47:33

So you should not have said this? That she should not report it to the police?
47:33 - 47:36

And that she should have sex with the one who had mistreated her?
47:36 - 47:39

No, I don't know. This should not have happened.
47:39 - 47:41

It should not have happened, you say.
47:41 - 47:43

Now that I am here, could I ask him do you think?
47:43 - 47:47

Yes, if he accepts and he is here.
47:47 - 47:55

Abdallah Salah goes down and talks to the imam who met the women
47:55 - 48:05

No, but you can talk to him after five minutes on the phone.
48:05 - 48:12

Words against words.
48:12 - 48:19

Now they don't know that we have filmed the meeting between the women and the imam.
48:19 - 48:29

OK, good, but you never told her that, just to clarify, you never told her not to report him to the police?
48:29 - 48:33

Okay, thank you.
48:33 - 48:36

So you trust him?
48:36 - 48:43

I trust him, until proven otherwise.
48:52 - 48:57

Here we have this meeting filmed.
48:57 - 49:05

You can listen yourself and see for yourself, this meeting here in your mosque.
49:05 - 49:17

"It can be a little difficult. Do you know why? The police will take him into custody.
49:17 - 49:29

and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison."
49:29 - 49:31

What do you say?
49:31 - 49:37

Well, he doesn't say clearly to her that you should not report him.
49:37 - 49:40

He advices her.
49:40 - 49:47

Yes. Well not really, but I judge this to be misconduct in service, nothing else. He cannot do this.
49:47 - 49:51

He cannot.
49:51 - 49:54

How serious do you think it is?
49:54 - 50:01

I think it is very serious. I have to call him in or contact the management to call him in for a conversation.
50:01 - 50:08

This is what one finds, for these two women who came here, this is the reality.
50:08 - 50:12

One couldn't trust you when it comes to these questions.
50:12 - 50:17

No, wait a bit, you have come here to show what? What is it you want to say?
50:17 - 50:18

But this is what the women have...
50:18 - 50:24

No but remember that he did not tell her do not report him.
50:24 - 50:38

He tried to...our role here is to try to keep people together. But the way he did it, if she understood
50:38 - 50:41

that she should not report this, I said that it was misconduct.
50:41 - 50:42

If she understood? It is clear, he...
50:42 - 50:48

Then it is misconduct. It has to do with an individual's judgement and nothing else.
50:48 - 50:59

We don't have this as a policy. We are very clear about this. In the routine, you can talk for five minutes
50:59 - 51:07

or one hour, but what he has done is unacceptable for me as someone responsible or someone in
51:07 - 51:08

the management.
51:08 - 51:12

Is he a total exception do you think? He has nothing to do with your viewpoints?
51:12 - 51:14

No, no.
51:14 - 51:16

Why does he say this then?
51:16 - 51:23

You can ask him. But for me, as an institution, as a mosque, everything that has happened here should not happen.
51:23 - 51:26

Ring him up and tell him you watched this then.
51:26 - 51:40

Abdallah ringer Mahmud Adam and we agree to return the next day at 9 o'clock for an interview.
51:40 - 51:49

I would like you to watch it and express yourself.
51:49 - 51:56

Before this, we had time to visit Uppsala mosque, where the family counselor Abdul Waddud told
51:56 - 52:03

the mistreated woman in niqab to ask pardon of her husband because she had made him angry.
52:03 - 52:10

I am meeting Khalid Chowdery who is chairman of the Islamic Association in Uppsala.
52:10 - 52:16

I asked him the same questions as in Stockholm and got the same answers. Here we follow Swedish laws
52:16 - 52:19

and Swedish values.
52:19 - 52:24

I speak about family counselor Waddud and his meeting with the two women.
52:24 - 52:37

About three times, he is told that, of the two women that came in, one was mistreated
52:37 - 52:52

by her husband, who has several wives. We have recorded this meeting when the two women visited. They are wearing niqab.
52:52 - 52:53

I will play it for you, is that okay?
52:53 - 53:03

"I will apologize, and hope God helps me. That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous."
53:03 - 53:06

I won't ring the police.
53:06 - 53:09

No you shouldn't ring the police.
53:09 - 53:11

God helps us.
53:11 - 53:18

"No you should not ring the police" - crystal clear.
53:18 - 53:26

He is personally responsible. It is not our mosque or association.
53:26 - 53:34

The woman who was mistreated should ask pardon, he said.
53:42 - 53:58

We follow Swedish law. It depends on her, there is a law there to protect her.
53:58 - 54:01

Yes, but he tells her not to go to the police.
54:01 - 54:03

Yes but that is his responsibility.
54:03 - 54:09

What kind of viewpoint on women is this? What kind of viewpoint on humans?
54:09 - 54:11

That a man has a right to four wives?
54:11 - 54:14

That is not legal.
54:14 - 54:19

It is not legal in Sweden, in Swedish law.
54:19 - 54:21

Yes, but this is Sweden where this is happening.
54:21 - 54:24

Yes, and that is what we also believe.
54:24 - 54:27

We accept this also. We don't have four wives.
54:27 - 54:42

She can go to the police if she wants or she can forgive him if she wants. It depends on her.
54:42 - 54:51

He is also a person who has studied Islam and he has his own understanding. He is not speaking for Uppsala mosque.
54:55 - 54:58

It is his private understanding?
54:58 - 55:01

Perhaps.
55:01 - 55:06

I phone Abdul Waddud, the family counselor in the secret recording.
55:06 - 55:11

He doesn't want to meet me or see the material.
55:11 - 55:14

Should the woman ask for pardon when a man hits her?
55:18 - 55:26

Back to the mosque in Stockholm where we were promised an interview with Mahmud Adam.
55:26 - 55:33

But the management has had a crisis meeting and decided that he is suspended until further investigation
55:33 - 55:35

and that he is forbidden from talking to media.
55:35 - 55:39

But we want to speak to him.
55:39 - 55:46

I am here to take responsibility, and we have decided the employees under investigation should not speak.
55:46 - 55:50

Why not? Why can't he speak with us? That would be the best way to investigate.
55:50 - 56:00

Yes, that's right. That's why I met you yesterday and I am here today to listen to you and we are very
56:00 - 56:07

grateful and we see this as very serious and will do this investigation and return to you.
56:07 - 56:12

Today you are not certain, despite hearing and seeing it, that he has done something wrong?
56:12 - 56:20

I heard Mahmud and heard you and it is not just me who is responsible. We will investigate and come back
56:20 - 56:23

with a response. Are you satisfied?
56:23 - 56:24

So you have changed your mind from yesterday?
56:24 - 56:31

I have not changed my mind. I have said we have a policy, we will compare everything Mahmud has done
56:31 - 56:36

with that policy. If it is wrong, we will call it misconduct and next time you will not need to use a
56:36 - 56:48

hidden camera, you can ring at any time and come at any time and film any activity you want to film.
56:48 - 56:49

We have nothing to hide.
56:49 - 56:53

Was it not a good thing we used a hidden camera, or we would have believed what you said?
56:53 - 56:56

We are very thankful you helped us to improve us as I said yesterday
56:56 - 57:01

And I am still thanking you for this.
57:01 - 57:04

Otherwise we would never have done an investigation
57:07 -

Here Mission: Investigation ends tonight. Next week...

Title:: With Hidden Camera in Swedish Mosques, SVT's Mission Investigation
Description:: Håll god ton i kommentarerna. Jag modererar i efterhand. Tycker någon att en olämplig kommentar finns, skicka meddelande mig här på youtube. Jag kan ju missa saker.
Läs alltid www.sdpartille.wordpress.com
Hela Uppdrag granskning 2012-05-16
Uppdrag granskning i kväll var andlöst spännande. Janne Josefsson skickade in två Niqab-klädda kvinnor i 10 svenska moskéer. En del moskéer blev uppringda. Programmet var mycket bättre än man kunde ha anat. Inga ursäkter, inga "det finns liberala muslimer". Bara fakta rakt på, bara intervjuer och inspelningar med dold kamera. Det är skrattretande och fruktansvärt avslöjande när en person ur Stockholms-moskéns ledning på slutet av programmet, efter att den avslöjande inspelningen har spelats upp, säger:
-Ni kunde ha kommit till oss och frågat hur vi sköter vår verksamhet, ni kunde ha fått filma.
Janne Josefsson:
-Det var väl tur att vi filmade med dolda kameror, annars hade vi inte fått reda på vad som verkligen pågår i moskén.
Muslimska ledare uppmanar kvinnor till underkastelse
Dold kamera avslöjar dubbla budskap. Utåt är muslimska ledare i svenska moskéer noga med att framhålla kvinnans och mannens lika värde. Uppdrag gransknings dolda inspelningar ger en helt annan bild -- då uppmanas kvinnan tvärtom till total underkastelse.

more » « less
Video Language:: Swedish
Duration:: 57:15

	Tasnim edited English subtitles for Med dold kamera i svenska moskéer med SVT:s Uppdrag Granskning
	Tasnim edited English subtitles for Med dold kamera i svenska moskéer med SVT:s Uppdrag Granskning
	Tasnim added a translation

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With Hidden Camera in Swedish Mosques, SVT's Mission Investigation

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